Which Joker was more evil? This one or the one in Dark Knight?
Which of the two Jokers was more evil?
shareWhich of the two Jokers was more evil?
shareThe Dark Knight
shareI agree on that. The Arthur Fleck Joker became what he became because he felt he was wronged by society whereas the Ledger Joker just wanted to make society a jungle. So the Dark Knight Joker was far worse in my opinion. Wouldn't you agree?
shareDefinitely TDK's Joker, we didn't see his vulnerable side unlike in Joker so the audience wasn't able to make that connection. Even if we had I'd still be banking on Heath's Joker as being the most evil based on his lack of empathy alone.
shareThis one
Ledger's Joker was a force of nature. Earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and volcanoes kill masses of people, but they are not evil. They are simply powerful forces. What separates evil from non-evil is the ability to recognize the difference between right and wrong
Arthur Fleck, as the protagonist of the film, is shown to have a moral compass. He takes care of his sick mother. He comforts her and dotes on her. He conviviates with who he thinks is his little brother. He is capable of feeling empathy and kindness
So by the opposite token, his acts of violence and madness are a conscious rejection of his formerly moral behavior. He transgresses. He kills his co-worker, his mom, his idol. People who have played significant roles in his life
Plus Ledger's Joker gave the city authorities a fair warning to evacuate the hospitals before blowing them up. He behaved by some sort of internal moral code, even if he ranted against that sort of thing in his convo with Harvey Dent. Phoenix's Joker, on the other hand, took no responsibility for the riots and the mass chaos that he was causing. He simply danced like an autistic retard as the city around him was being burned to the ground.
You described well why Arthur Fleck is also the realistic Joker. Ledger's Joker, just like Batman, was very archetypal, a force of nature as you said. He represented chaos opposite to Batman's order. That made him more but also less than human in some ways.
EDIT: I also disagree on the premise that it's the ability to differentiate between good and evil that determines how much someone's actions are evil. To losely quote Batman "It's not who I am, it's what I do that defines me". Because by your standard a psychopat will always be less evil than someone who feels empathy. Can psychopats even be evil then?
I mean, Ledger's Joker tried to blow up ships with hunderds of people in them just to make a point and killed a bunch of people who did him no wrong. Even betrayed his partners in a heist. On the other hand, devil's advocate would argue that every Arthur's victim deserved it to a degree. And blaming him for the chaos that errupted is as fair as blaming one serbian extremist with a gun for world war 1.
The one in the Dark Knight.
shareLedger. And it's not close.
shareEasily the Dark Knight. Heath Ledger's Joker was a criminal mastermind. Joaquin Phoenix's Joker is a man who life has beaten down relentlessly and has reached his breaking point.
shareFirst of all, let me say up front that I know this is not supposed to be viewed as though it is the "same" character as TDK per se. I know that we are supposed to view this as a different reality than TDK etc.
And I did not enter this movie with the intent of viewing it as a "prequel" to TDK.
But having said that, one of the things which really appealed to me at the end of the movie was how WELL it worked as a prequel to TDK. (in a way). I really thought this character applied perfectly to Ledger's Joker.
To me, this was the perfect beginning to the same character. He still has vulnerability and humanity. He still has kindness deep in his heart. He is just now seeing the decay of society. But he likes it, and it goes well with the arrival of his insanity.
Then jump forward several years to TDK and he has become completely numb to humanity and any kind of hope towards society. He now just wants to contribute to the complete decay and anarchy.
So, my point of all of this is that I think it is inevitable to call Ledger's Joker more evil - but only because it is a proper evolution of the same character. It's not like it's a different "interpretation" of the same character. It's the same character who has continuously declined and completely lost any kind of mercy or humanity.
I think it even enhances TDK in a way, painting more of a picture of how/why Ledger's Joker would get to the point where he hated society so much and thrived upon anarchy.
Uh, TDK Joker, easily. Pheonix's Joker can barely even be called "evil." Ledger's Joker was the very personification of Evil. It's not even really a debate who was worse.
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