MovieChat Forums > Goliath (2016) Discussion > Season 2 Thoughts and Questions...SPOILE...

Season 2 Thoughts and Questions...SPOILERS

posted 6 years ago by cnoevl21 (2)
20 replies | jump to latest

I watched all of season 2 in 2 days. I think I liked season 1 better. Not that im saying season 2 was bad, it wasnt. Just not as good. And I think that is mostly due to the fact that i found it to be less believable scenarios, as well as what i found to be numerous plot holes.
And thats really what I want to discuss...the plot holes (or me just not paying enough attention).

Do they ever say how Danny got involved? We know that he brought in Roman. But how did Danny get involved with Tom in the first place?
I figured that Tom and Marisol were lovers at one point and then she sent him to Gabriel, that connection made sense.
What did the "white kid" do that he needed to be killed? And why was his death necessary for marisol to get elected mayor? I get that he had rich parents, so they had to cover up the murder. But why did Julio HAVE to be the fall guy? If Julio is found innocent, then Roman, Danny, Tom, etc would all be found out? Why? How?
Marisol's character was all over the place. She is asking Billy to take the case in the beginning. I get that she didnt know, at first, that ppl were being killed. And even after finding out, she says that she will cover it all up and get Julio out. Then just up and decides to have him killed? What?! She went from a good guy, to good guy that unknowingly made bad choices, to a straight up villain. And all in like 2 episodes time.
She then spends an episode telling Gabriel to leave Billy alone. Then turns around again and agrees to have him killed.
Dont even get me started on Billy being kidnapped. What the hell was that?! What if he didnt get wasted that night? Would he have been fine? And whos "word" were they waiting on? marisol? he was held captive for days. What were gabriel and marisol waiting for?
Then his murder is botched. Makes sense. no show without him. But what hitman doesnt check to make sure the target is dead? And billy fell in a field. Not like he was in a public area. They easily could have walked over the train tracks to make sure. No hitman would ever make this mistake.
Putting all that aside. Why exactly is Billy no longer a target after this? He still knows the truth?He can still go public, and at least have Marisol investigated. But no. He shows up at marisol's victory party all bloody and nothing comes of this? Hes at his bar, at his hotel room, driving around in public. and NOTHING?! It made no sense.
Then he goes to Gabriel's house with just Patty? No cops, no fbi, no bodyguard. The head of a drug cartel that tried to kill him only days prior. And he just knocks on the guys door? WHAT!?

As far as the ending. Billy and marisol meeting was dumb. Why didnt she just have him killed there?
I can only assume this storyline will go into season 3. It has too. Otherwise, Marisol and Gabriel just get to win? Sure, Tom, Danny, and Roman get theirs. But the 2 top villains get away free and clear?
I know this was a lot of raggin on the show. Don't get me wrong. I did enjoy it. Just would have enjoyed it more had the questions I posed been answered. But who know. maybe they will be answered next season. Or maybe I just missed the show answering some of them (if so, let me know).

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

>What did the "white kid" do that he needed to be killed?
Its really dumb but "The broker" says he's concerned the kid was gonna start talking to the cops before they even start asking questions. They then try to pin it on julio and to avoid a real investigation but instead of allowing the case to get dropped they just draw loads of attention by killing people left and right.

> And why was his death necessary for marisol to get elected mayor?
It was Gabrial who insisted that julio be found guilty or just be murdered as he didn't want him to go to trial. He simply put pressure on marisol it didn't seem like it was related to her election at all. The idea was kind of dumb. Gabrial wanted to pin it on Julio to stop the investigation I suspect Grabrial was planning to eliminate julio the whole time so he woulden't go to trial and let the justice department stop investigating as it believed they had already found the killer. I say without any leads the investigation would have just become a cold case in real life but movie logic says Gabrial needed a scapegoat. Its not that plausible in my opinion no rational person would botch and investigation like that(putting the gun on a chain link fence) which did nothing but draw more attention to the case.

> But why did Julio HAVE to be the fall guy? If Julio is found innocent, then Roman, Danny, Tom, etc would all be found out? Why? How?

It seemed more like Gabriel was threatning all of them. I'd say they would have rather let the case be dropped as their continued interference wouldput them at more risk of being exposed which it eventually did, but not appeasing Gabriel put them at more risk as they could loose limbs, their life, and the life of their families.

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

> Dont even get me started on Billy being kidnapped. What the hell was that?! What if he didnt get wasted that night? Would
> he have been fine?

Agreed that was an ass pull. We all know he'd have waited till he got back to the U.S. before he started drinking. He's refrained from drinking in the past and has demonstrated he can keep a sober mind when he needs too.

> And whos "word" were they waiting on? marisol? he was held captive for days. What were gabriel and marisol waiting for?
I assumed that Gabrial was testing marisol's loyalty by forcing her to make the order as he did with julio. They were working together the whole time as she was planning to open L.A. to his cartel after she got elected. She really did have feelings for him as evidence by her crying at the last episode when she claims she doesn't, she initially wanted to trade julio to save McBride but eventually Gabriel seems to have wanted her to order McBrides murder as well. What I don't get is why they waited till nightfall when they got the call early in the morning. And whats with all this packing and heavy bags and stuff, why was it needed? For that matter the method of choice for the murder would have been their limbs and head would be cut off not guns and bullets.

I agree the whole stick about them not checking the field was poor writing. You kill some one in Mexico on contract and your supposed to take a body part as proof you killed them.

It has too. Otherwise, Marisol and Gabriel just get to win? Sure, Tom, Danny, and Roman get theirs. But the 2 top villains get away free and clear?

Gabriel alone had the wife and 2 children killed. Also I think the guy with the prostetic pimcher arm got away. I can't believe the show would let these guys get away with all this.
Also why was there no subtitles during the coloring book spanish monologe at the beginning of episode 5. I suspected it was a reference to Marisol being she's native to mexico but it felt like a cheap shot doing it in spanish so that most of the audience woulden't know the details.

[–] FifthFreedom (196) 6 years ago

Bad guys almost always get away with it in real life. I don't mind TV shows portraying that part accurately.

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

Most bad guys don't. The trend in criminals I've seen is they start thinking there unstopable due to lenient justice system which gives them the illusion that our justice system is too incompetent to catch them. They then escalate their crimes till the police and prosecutors start to actally pay attention to them and then put them away for good but by then they have 6 priors on their record. Of course the rare and really high end criminals (Cartels) will get away with it and are immune to the justice system do to their wealth and access to lawyers who know how in the justice department to make deals with but they eventually get taken out by other megalomaniac criminals that want the top stop. Even criminals will bring balance to their own power structures. It just sucks that the rest of us get caught in the middle of it. You can break that stigma by learning how to defend your self (I do advocate firearms in a world of few wolves praying on many sheep).

[–] FifthFreedom (196) 6 years ago

I'm thinking about the big bad guys. Kings. Presidents. Politicians. Generals who lead their men to slaughter women and children. That sort of thing.

In the modern world, it's almost unheard of that they DON'T get away with it.

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

Yea but that is happening less and less as time goes on.

[–] SnagsWolf (1172) 6 years ago

Also why was there no subtitles during the coloring book spanish monologe at the beginning of episode 5.

The version I watched (on Amazon Prime) had subtitles. And they were just there, I didn't have to turn them on.

[–] KBiker (980) 4 years ago

There were subtitles during the coloring book Spanish monologue. You had to turn them to see them.

[–] mobocracy (891) 6 years ago

How is it a woman with ties to a drug Cartel gets this far running for mayor of Los Angeles? You mean nobody would dig into her background and find anything out?

And how is it a major real estate developer is doing a lot of his own dirty work? That kind of money ought to buy him some serious muscle and protection from even drug cartel heavyweights.

All that being said, I've found this season to be a lot richer than last season, despite the obvious issues. S1 started out great but quickly became tired and predictable, and the ending wasn't convincing.

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

The ending was too anti climatic for me. It had so much build up and then nothing.

[–] Kingswood (1260) 6 years ago

Agreed.

[–] mobocracy (891) 6 years ago

After finishing the episode, I'm inclined to think that Marisol is the real brains/head of whatever operation Gabriel seems to run. He's too psycho/crazy on his own and she can control/manipulate him. Plus now as Mayor of Los Angeles she has a lot more legitimate power than he does, especially since she has totally erased her background.

[–] crc32 (2584) 6 years ago

I didn't really get that. We see her having emotional reactions in that she made choices that she didn't want to make. She's clearly to occupied with her political career to be running a billion dollar drug trade. But yes we can assume she owes gabriel a lot of favors that he will collect on now that she's mayor of L.A.

[–] ducksoup (3933) 6 years ago

I think the implication is that Marisol was always evil, and only Gabriel knew it.

[–] legnadibrom (6214) 6 years ago

and what was with all these characters in the kidnap-holding house?
i understand the bald guy was a part of marisol's team, and john savage was the hitman,
why was steven bauer there? with his goth girlfriend?
it was all very unbelievable, when billy is telling the chinese woman how to stab steven bauer, it seemed so far-fetched and brutal that i was sure it was actually just going to be a distraction for a bigger plan billy had to escape, how the hell could he count on this random woman to stab a man in the balls while giving him a BJ???

[–] SnagsWolf (1172) 6 years ago

I agree. While this season was enjoyable, and I wanted to find out how it ended, it had me scratching my head a lot.

As you pointed out, they never explained WHY Julio had to be the fall guy. It was the entire point the season was based on, and they never based it on a solid pretense.

And they kill Julio's father to take away his alibi, and then in the next episode, they produce a video that proved Julio wasn't at home. That's just lazy writing.

The whole Billy/Marisol relationship never made any sense. I couldn't figure out why she was hanging around him, and their characters never clicked as being together. Then at one point he's obviously suspicious of her, even grilling his daughter about Marisol asking her about him. Then the next episode he's apologizing and wanting to get back with her.

David Cross' character was completely useless, and he looked ridiculous in that wig. I kept expecting there to be a scene where it gets knocked off, but even that didn't have a payoff.

Yeah, the whole kidnapping was ludicrous. And it was obvious that Billy faked being shot and jumped on the passing train, but they could have shown it. And then shown the kidnappers' surprise when checked for the body and it was missing. I was a little bothered that he tossed the hot water in the girl's face. She seemed to be slightly sympathetic, so he could've thrown the water in the guy's face and punched her.

Why would there be any doubt that Julio didn't kill himself? Not only had someone else confessed to the crime, JT learned about the plot to kill him before it happened. Any investigator who wasn't brain-dead would be looking for suspects among the guards. Along the same line, why would they bother killing Julio when Roman already told them Tito did it, and they already killed Tito?

There should've been an 'ah-ah' moment for Brittany, realizing she'd given information to Wyatt. Information that probably killed Julio, Roman, and Roman's family.

Continued...

[–] SnagsWolf (1172) 6 years ago

All Billy had to do was contact a reporter he knows, and give them Marisol's real name and tell them to look into it, explaining how she's the sister of a drug lord. There's got to be someone in that little Mexican town who's pissed off enough about the siblings to spill the beans. And all the FBI has to do is start arresting the underlings, offering them witness protection if they talked.

Billy and Patty visiting Gabriel's house was the most cringe-worth scene in the entire season. He knows the guy's a psycho, and he not only goes without protection, he takes Patty with him.

James Wolk was pretty much unrecognizable from the character he played in Zoo.

The Chinese girl was entertaining, even though the scene was silly. Hope she shows up in season 3.

If the police are holding you in protective custody, they're going to take away your phone. And using it is going to tell everyone where you are. And would they just let him wander off from the motel?

[–] Kingswood (1260) 6 years ago

How about the plot hole of them leaving Elena (Marisol's campaign director) alive after they find out she knows who Marisol really is??

[–] MavKilledGoose (859) 6 years ago

The plot line was mostly incoherent.

As for the episode where Billy wakes up in a house with four degenerates and an Asian woman... I kind of liked it. Don't get me wrong, it was dog dumb, but also off-beat. Earlier in the season McBride's shown not watching one of his three go to movies (Hoosiers, Rudy, forget the third). Instead he watches North by Northwest (the most famous scene). They recreated it when he's fleeing the bad guys and dives to avoid the drone. It was so silly. A fucking commercial drone?? And then there's a parade? And then writers get super-lazy about how he gets back into the States: JT. Mysterious JT. What a mess.