Most deaths in German camps came in the last 90 days of war were caused by typhus
and starvation due to Allied saturation bombing.
No German documents were ever found mentioning any plan to exterminate the Jews.
No mass graves were ever found.
No piles of human ashes were ever found.
Lamp shades of human skin and soap of human fat were propaganda hoaxes.
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml
i pity people like you. you would never have the courage to debate this to someones face so you spread your hatred anonymously where there are no repercussions. So essentially you are a coward.
you're welcome
I've discussed the fact that the holocaust is myth to people's faces. Do I get a medal? Also the reason most people are afraid to admit that they don't believe the Holocaust is because many countries have made it illegal to talk about and even if you don't live in those countries, people will still look down on you because they've been taught from an early age to hate all things Nazi. It's not cowardice, it's being smart.
"Brother, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat."
I've discussed the fact that the holocaust is myth to people's faces. Do I get a medal?No, but I'll bet you got a lot of puke on your shoes. share
No, just a lot of puzzled faces from people unable to give me a clear answer on many of the supposed "facts" regarding the holohoax.
"Brother, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat."
Do you mention the part about how you're actually just recycling neo-Nazi lies, or do you leave that out?
shareWhy would neo-Nazis need to lie? They happily admit that they despise Jews and the ones who say the holocaust didn't happen also like to add that, it should have.
"Brother, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat."
May you and your family suffer the same fate. Disgusting.
shareWhat did my family do? You're the disgusting one.
"Brother, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat."
You're denying the mass murder of over 6,000,000. That's is DISGUSTING. Your family should have had protected sex, spit, swallowed, or aborted.
shareI'm not denying that people died. Of course they did, it was a war. I just don't believe in gas chambers and the so-called "final solution". Why should I when there's so little evidence and the idea that most inmates of camps simply died of sickness, starvation and bomb attacks is far more believable. Even the body count of 6,000,000 has no real evidence behind it. Even when they lowered the death toll at Auschwitz from 4 million to 1.5 million, the total never changed.
Also please do not refer to anyone who chooses not to believe the "official" narrative of the holocaust a "denier". The correct word is "revisionist".
"Brother, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat."
Nah. A guy who denies the Nazi genocidal program against the Jews, its methods, and its death toll is a Holocaust denier. He may *claim* to be a "revisionist," but he's a denier. And, yes, that's you b
shareTo deny something, that thing has to have actually happened. You wouldn't call someone who believes in evolution a "Genesis denier".
"Brother, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat."
There is enough evidence in the documents, films and speeches by the Nazis to come to the conclusion that there actually WAS a Nazi plan to exterminate the whole Jewish race (in their sphere of influence), i.e. direct mention of the term "extermination of the Jewish race" by leading top Nazis, including Hitler himself, Himmler stressing the importance to kill the children of the Jews too to prevent future avengers and because he's not such a coward to leave that task up to his own children, proposals to sterilize the Jewish women the "solve the Jewish problem once and for all", comparing Jews to vermin, rats and lice (= dehumanization required for killing), the Einsatzgruppen report (one among many others) by Karl Jäger which clearly speaks out his desire to kill each and every Jew in the region he was responsible for, and which is listing many Jewish women and children in his detailed tables about the killings done by his squad as well. Killing each and every woman and child of a certain group is not merely a typical side effect of war.
Testimonials and admissions of Nazis about the plan to exterminate the Jews
http://shamash.org/holocaust/denial/nazi_doc.txt
The Jaeger Report – Recording Mass Murder
http://alley-cat.info/the-jaeger-report-recording-mass-murder/
Scans of the Jäger report
http://alley-cat.info//wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Jaeger_Report.pdf
Not many people seem to know, but there is documentary evidence that pretty much only allows the conclusion that the rooms that are considered gas chambers today could only have been built for homicidal purposes. Lipstadt has written an excellent chapter which summarizes this evidence and describes how the deniers are scrambling for explanations to explain it away. Evidence like for example an order sheet from the Auschwitz construction office which includes 14 shower heads TOGETHER WITH one gas tight door, the ordering of peep holes and the mentioning of heating (why for rooms which deniers claim are only morgues?), the ordering of gas detectors and the direct mentioning of a "gassing cellar" in what seems to be a slip-up and deviation of the usual camouflage language the Nazis used to conceal their crimes, demonstrated by that term being underlined (afterwards).
Thanks to the Beate Klarsfeld foundation the whole book can be studied online, including the facsimiles of the original German documents:
Jean-Claude Pressac: Auschwitz – Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers ("One proof … one single proof")
http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/
http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0429.shtml
Deborah Lipstadt: Denying the Holocaust, chapter The Gas Chambers: “One Proof – Just One Proof”
http://vho.org/aaargh/engl/dl/denying11.html
PS: and again, regarding the very poor argument of the 4 million at Auschwitz plaque:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-01.html
Another disgusting Holocaust DENIER heard from.
shareSo thread-creator questioning the official story of that part of history makes you think that s/he is:
"spread your hatred anonymously where there are no repercussions. So essentially you are a coward"
You're a moron!
So... they send all these people to concentration camps just to kill them off?
Why send them to camps, spending lots of food and so on, just to kill them?
Isn't it just a little more believable that they just used them for labour in the camps?
It's not really that strange that a lot of people died in the camps, but it doesn't really make sense just to keep them there just to kill them.
They were more worth as labour than as dead people, right?
So... they send all these people to concentration camps just to kill them off?
Isn't it just a little more believable that they just used them for labour in the camps?
The Typhus Myth
This means, according to denier calculations, that the camp authorities were building enough crematorium capacity in the summer of 1942 to incinerate the entire population of the camp in a month. According to the Bauleitung, this was enough capacity to cremate the camp's population in about a week. [...] It is easy to see why deniers are dependent on blaming typhus as the reason for the crematoria building. Without hundreds of thousands of such deaths, there would not be any justification for such a huge building campaign.
[...]
[About the Auschwitz Death Books:] Nevertheless, the nearly 69,000 death certificates available afford researchers the opportunity to see exactly what was killing registered prisoners. It is now known on the basis of these certificates that very few prisoners died from typhus. They show that only 2060 of the 68,864 deaths were from typhus.
[...]
Predictably, deniers have totally ignored the causes of death listed in the death books since this information was first published in 1995. Rather, Mattogno and others continue to propagate the myth that typhus was responsible for the high inmate mortality.
http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
"No mounds of ashes" is an internal contradiction. In an article in the journal published by the same IHR that publishes these Q&A, the Journal's editor reported that a Polish commission in 1946 found human ash at the Treblinka death camp to a depth of over twenty feet. This article is available on The IHR's web site. [see excerpt below]
(Apparently some survivors claimed that the corpses were always thoroughly cremated. Because uncremated human remains were mixed with the ash, the editor suggested that the testimonies were false. Amazingly, he had no comment on how a twenty-foot layer of human ashes came to be there in the first place. Perhaps he felt that to be unworthy of mention.)
http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html
In the area where the gas chambers were supposed to have been located, the commission's team of 30 excavation workers reportedly found "human remains, partially in the process of decay," and an unspecified amount of ash. Untouched sandy soil was reached at 7.5 meters, at which point the digging was halted. An accompanying photograph of an excavated pit reveals some large bones. /63
Poland's "Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes" reported that "large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of decomposing tissues," were found in the five acre (two hectare) burial area during an examination of the site shortly after the end of the war. /64
http://ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html#notes123
The following are excerpts from original Nazi documents, relating directly to the extermination of Jews and others which was carried out by the Nazis during WW2.
http://shamash.org/holocaust/denial/nazi_doc.txt
• "No human soap"? This is true, but misleading. Though there is some evidence that soap was made from corpses on a very limited experimental scale, the rumored "mass production" was never done, and no soap made from human corpses is known to exist. However, there is sworn testimony, never refuted, from British POWs and a German army official, stating that soap experiments were performed, and the recipe for the soap was captured by the Allies. To state flatly that the Nazis did not make soap from human beings is incorrect.
• "No lamp shades made of human skin?" False -- lampshades and other human-skin "ornaments" were introduced as evidence in both trials of Ilse Koch, and were shown to a U.S. Senate investigation committee in the late 40s. We know they were made of human skin because they bore tattoos, and because a microscopic forensic analysis of the items was performed. (A detailed page on this is being prepared.)
http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi
For the folks that don't know, "ihr.org" is the Institute for Historical Review, a far-right hate group that was arguably the most important of the Holocaust denial organizations up until around the time of the Irving trial, though it's not much more than a website now.
It was founded by this racist wackadoodle, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis Carto, and this racist wackadoodle, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_McCalden but is now run by this racist wackadoodle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weber.
The IHR was intended as a polite-and-academic-sounding false-front organization for hate groups, but revealed itself almost immediately to be a pack of Jew-obsessed haters.
Most deaths in German camps came in the last 90 days of war were caused by typhus
and starvation due to Allied saturation bombing.
No German documents were ever found mentioning any plan to exterminate the Jews.
No mass graves were ever found.
No piles of human ashes were ever found.
Lamp shades of human skin and soap of human fat were propaganda hoaxes.
[deleted]
Do you normally debate issues by holding your hands over your ears and humming out loud to drown out sounds?
I'll try to make it real easy for you:
1. Wannsee Conference
2. Nuremberg Trials
3. Eichmann Trial
Go ahead, "dispute" this incontrovertible evidence of the planning of The Final Solution and virtually everything else you blithely dismiss out of hand.
Poor Paulie cut-and-paste-plagiarizes from a hate site again (he does seem to have a recurring problem with that, doesn't he) -- this time from Faurrisson.
I don't have access to the original quote from Hilburg, which appeared in a regional paper in 1983. That it was filtered through first the anti-Semitic wackadoodle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Faurisson and then the similarly wackadoodle Paulie would be enough for anyone to wonder whether the quote had actually arrived intact.
It's worth noting that in 1941 there was no plan or organization or budget because the Wannsee Conference, where this stuff was worked out, was in early 1942. Hilbert's absolutely right to have said the plans weren't in place before the plans were in place.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005477
Now, either Paulie knew that, in which case he was deliberately passing along something he knew was misleading, or he didn't know it and he just believes everything he reads on hate sites.
More information on the organization and bureaucracy of the Holocaust here, in an expert report submitted in the Lipstadt/Irving trial by Peter Longerich (who didn't make it into the film).
https://www.hdot.org/longsys_toc/
And while I'm at it, here is Longerich's other report for the Lipstadt/Irving trial, showing how Hitler ordered and was responsible for the Holocaust, despite the way Holocaust deniers so fervently try to get him off the hook.
https://www.hdot.org/longrole_toc/
Hilberg said this: "But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget for destructive measures. They [these measures] were taken step by step, one step at a time. Thus came about not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus -- mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy."
So... no plan, no organization, no agency, no blueprint, no budget...
the holocaust was the most strategically planned systematic genocide ever
share@Jeff - I have read Hilberg's nonsense. Telling me to read Hilberg isn't enough. Quote me specific passages of his work to support your claims. I guarantee you: they will not stand up to scrutiny.
@Zort - I read your link. There is no proof in it whatsoever that Hitler ordered extermination. Quote me specific parts to support your claims. I also guarantee you: they will not stand up to scrutiny.
And as for your defence of Hilberg: "It's worth noting that in 1941 there was no plan or organization or budget because the Wannsee Conference, where this stuff was worked out, was in early 1942."
You forget that Auschwitz commandant Hoess allegedly "confessed" that in August, 1941, Himmler told him to start gassing at Auschwitz and that it was already being done at Majdanek. So, we allegedly have mass extermination already in progress at Majdanek in Aug. '41, improved and underway at Auschwitz by October, 1941.
Hmm... the narrative seems a bit inconsistent, eh Zort?
@YakPro - The "original" Wansee Conference minutes have never been produced. The full title of the Conference was "The Final Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe." The original phrase was "a final territorial solution of the Jewish question." The term "Jewish Question" referred to a question that had been discussed for years: Should the Jews have their own state within the country where they lived, or should they assimilate?
In 1992, Yehuda Bauer, a professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, referred to "the silly story of Wannsee," as he said: "The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at."
There is no doubt by Revisionists that the conference took place, and undoubtedly minutes were taken. However, whatever minutes actually do/did exist apparently have been manipulated in an attempt to create an outcome that would come closer to supporting the fraudulent assumption of '6,000,000'. That awkward undertaking was less than successful as there are howlers aplenty:
- the absurd numbers of Jews (11 million) that are listed in these alleged 'translations'
- no mention of 'gas chambers' or mass murder as a 'solution'
- the markings on this alleged "copy 16 of 30" are in contradiction with normal German administrative procedure at the time
- I'll repeat my previous point: Auschwitz commandant Hoess allegedly "confessed" that in August, 1941, Himmler told him to start gassing at Auschwitz and that it was already being done at Majdanek. So, we allegedly have mass extermination already in progress at Majdanek in Aug. '41, improved and underway at Auschwitz by October, 1941 and then in January 1942 we have Wannsee supposedly creating plans that have no bearing upon the current accepted timeline of mass extermination. Why hold a conference months after the alleged 'extermination plan' was already in progress?
- The Final Solution to the Jewish Question, which was the subject of this Conference, was to be the "transportation to the east" or "evacuation to the east" (nach dem Osten abgeshoben) of the Jews in Europe. In the minutes of the meeting, nothing is written about killing the Jews.
I guarantee you: they will not stand up to scrutiny.
ah, Paulie, you just keep doublin' down on stupid.
The 11 million figure represented the total number of Jews in both occupied Nazi territories and those at war with Germany. You see, the Final Solution required an accounting of everyone they planned on exterminating.
As for your ridiculous assertion that the language wasn't specific enough for your "exacting standards" of proof, you hardly expected them to state their exact plans, did you? How's this for an explanation:
[deleted]
I have a copy of Hilberg's first book, "The Destruction of the European Jews." It illustrates very clearly that the killing apparatus in the Reich included the government bureaucracy, the military, industry, and the other elements of society all working together. It is all in his books for you to read for yourself - yet you refuse to acknowledge the facts that are documented in the primary sources cited in Hilberg's research and other sources. Research being done today shows that Hilberg's figures for the number of Jews and others murdered were far below the actual number murdered. 60 Minutes showed a segment recently about a Priest in France who does such research throughout Europe, and is finding many massacres that were not recorded earlier.
I don't have to type out quotes from the book to spoon feed willfully ignorant people. Go to a library, if you have any self-respect and courage at all.
In responding to a few specific false claims in your latest posts, it is worth noting that Hilberg explains in his book that the deportation program was explicitly stopped by the German authorities and the extermination program begun after an order signed by Goering, not Hitler, called for initiation of the "final solution." At that time, requests for deportation authorization were turned down by the higher authorities on the basis that the "final solution" would make such deportations unnecessary.
Of course Hitler and the Nazi high command avoided explicit mention of genocide - it was a secret program when it began. The press and the rest of the world were still watching every move they made, and even some in the German command objected to mass murder and would leak the information - so they used euphemisms, as outlined in the voluminous research done on the Nazi regime and the killing apparatus. As Hilberg explains, when many German military commanders and local officials asked what exactly was meant by the language in the original order signed by Goering, a conference was called by Heinrich in which it was made clear that deportation was no longer the plan - and that the "final solution" would once and for all eliminate the need for deportation. There is only one interpretation of this that makes any sense - which is something the Germans and others within German-occupied territories understood well enough to build a very effective murder machine.
Hilberg makes it clear in his book that the absence of the detailed, written plan of extermination from the beginning did not stop the genocide from taking place, as it was inevitable. Once the Jewish citizens of the Reich were classified as different from the rest of the population, in the 1930's, the later decision to begin the genocide and the implementation of the program were inevitable, given the long traditions of prejudice among the citizens of the Reich, the well-established German bureaucratic institutions and business organizations that facilitated the building of the genocide apparatus, military traditions, and the determination of Hitler, Himmler and many others at the top to eliminate Jews from the Reich.
My real name is Jeff
@Zort - name one racist thing I have said in any of my posts. You can't. Any by the way, I am mixed race.
If you are going to label me racist, you better be able to back it up.
@YakPro - quote from the Wansee minutes. What exactly in them indicates extermination?
@BobbyDupea - Hilberg wrote that book without ever visiting Auschwitz. Kinda says a lot about his standard of research. He admitted under oath one single case of death by gassing could not be proven. He never proved extermination. If you think he did, quote me his best piece of evidence for it.
There is no more evidence for extermination than there is for witchcraft - both rely on impossible eyewitness claims and confessions extracted by torture.
I don't have Hilberg's book at my disposal now - I'm still at work. However, your post begs the question: where did those millions of people go? Every census done after the war confirmed the disappearance of millions of Jews. This is confirmed by the people who escaped, who have documented the loss of their families, their friends, and entire communities. This was also recognized by non-Jews, who, unlike you, could hardly deny the disappearance of whole towns and their neighbors. Yes, unlike you, the people of Europe who survived the war acknowledged the disappearance of millions.
You can't seriously believe that approximately six million Jewish and other citizens of Europe spontaneously combusted or went into hiding permanently. So much for the logic of denying physical evidence.
In the end, there is no convincing a person of facts who doesn't want to acknowledge the facts. There are people who still believe the earth is flat, and that the sun revolves around the earth - but anyone with a desire to know the truth and access to a public library can learn that is not so. The same is true of the Holocaust and other atrocities - the facts have been compiled into books written for the layperson and available through the library. If you wish to remain ignorant of the truth, the responsibility for that rests with you, not with me.
My real name is Jeff
@Bobby
This 'where did they go' line of questioning is illogical and in no way supports claims of extermination. Jews went where Jews are, that simple.
Jews absolutely poured out Europe after the war, and Jews poured out the USSR on their way to 'Israel'. Where do you think the millions of Jews in 'Israel' came from?
People cite train records as proof of extermination. We know there are plenty of train transport records TO various camps, but we have none which show trains LEAVING. Why is that? Didn't trains go somewhere after their trips to the alleged 'death camps'? Does anyone really think the Germans didn't keep records of where their trains went, full or empty? Are we to believe these trains were simply parked forever, are we to be believe the evil Germans destroyed the trains? The lack of these outgoing train records is damning to the story.
Convince me of the facts: give me evidence one single homicidal gassing took place.
This 'where did they go' line of questioning is illogical
Jews absolutely poured out Europe after the war, and Jews poured out the USSR on their way to 'Israel'. Where do you think the millions of Jews in 'Israel' came from?
People cite train records as proof of extermination. We know there are plenty of train transport records TO various camps, but we have none which show trains LEAVING. Why is that? Didn't trains go somewhere after their trips to the alleged 'death camps'? Does anyone really think the Germans didn't keep records of where their trains went, full or empty? Are we to believe these trains were simply parked forever, are we to be believe the evil Germans destroyed the trains? The lack of these outgoing train records is damning to the story.
Convince me of the facts: give me evidence one single homicidal gassing took place.
Any by the way, I am mixed race.
Looks like my comments are starting to disappear. That's free speech for you.
Show me one racist comment I said, Zort. I dare you to quote me.
pauliewalnuts: when you make claims without mentioning where the evidence comes from, and you dispute facts supported by whole libraries full of primary source documents presented at the war crimes trials and in independent research, multiple census counts and eyewitness accounts - again without citing the sources of your conclusions - people are bound to conclude you have a bias against Jewish people. It is a valid assumption, given that you are so determined to assert, without evidence, that millions of Jews were not murdered, there was no gassing, etc.
The facts are documented over and over with primary sources: Hitler did not sign the written order - it was Goering - and the Nazis used euphemisms to discuss the killing program, knowing that they would inflame world opinion against them and lose valuable time in accomplishing the genocide - or be unable to do so - if they didn't keep the program secret. They actually swore people in charge of building the mass killing centers to secrecy, according to the documents presented at Nuremberg.
In addition, as scholars have proven clearly, the wording "final solution of the Jewish question" used in the directives of the Nazi high command did not refer to deportation of Jews - it was used when it was decided to end the deportation out of the country and begin the mass extermination.
Raul Hilberg summarizes this reality:
"In German correspondence the killing phase was referred to as the "final solution of the Jewish question." The word final in this context has a double meaning: In its narrow sense, it meant that the aim of the destruction process had now been clarified. During the concentration stage it was still conceivable to shove the Jews out of Europe to some other continent or to let them languish in ghettos. The decision to take measures for the total annihilation of European Jewry shut out any such alternative."
...
"How was the killing phase brought about? Basically, we are dealing with two of Hitler's decisions. One order was given in the spring of 1941, during the planning of the invasion of the USSR; it provided that small units of the SS and Police be dispatched to Soviet territory, where they were to move from town to town to kill all Jewish inhabitants on the spot. This method may be called the "mobile killing operations." Shortly after the mobile operations had begun in the occupied Soviet territories, Hitler handed down his second order. That decision doomed the rest of European Jewry....Instead of moving the killers to the victims, the victims were brought to the killers."
...
"Shortly after the Einsatzgruppen crossed the June 22, 1941 line into the USSR, Hitler ordered the commencement of the "final solution of the Jewish question" on the entire European continent."
[Hilberg goes on at length to describe the efforts to confiscate Jewish property and concentrate Jewish people for deportation, and how those efforts led to frustration of the Nazi goal of ridding the Reich of Jews - as the nations of the world would admit very few Jewish people as immigrants. The fact that the deportation program was abandoned in favor of mass extermination is supported by numerous passages in which Hilberg quotes eyewitnesses at the highest levels of the German military and state bureaucracy. For example, in the spring of 1941 the German government bureaucracy was considering a legal declaration that all Jews were stateless - because of international criticism of the already harsh treatment of German citizens who were not being deported. The Chief of the Reich Chancellery, Lammers, wrote to the Interior and Justice ministries to explain that Hitler considered that law unnecessary. When Lammers wrote to Bormann about the same issue, he said:]
"For your own confidential information, may I add the following: the Fuhrer has rejected the legislation proposed by the Reich Interior Minister primarily because he is of the opinion that after the war there will not be any Jews left in Germany anyhow...."
The Gestapo informed French officials seeking permissions for Jews to emigrate out of France in May, 1941 that the emigration of Jews from those areas "...was to be prevented because transport facilities were limited and because "the final solution to the Jewish question" was now in sight."
Hilberg goes on to explain that on June 24, 1941, Heydrich wrote to Ribbentrop that the whole problem of the millions of Jews within the German-occupied territories could not be solved by emigration. He said a "territorial" final solution would be necessary. [citation given for Nuremberg documents]
On July 31, 1941, Hitler gave the order, which he didn't sign himself - he had Goering sign it. The order was couched in the language of the "final solution." Heydrich then called a conference at which he made clear what was to happen to the Jews - they were to be rounded up, with priority given to certain countries before others, and they were to be transported to camps and organized into labor groups. He explained that a majority would "fall away through natural decline," and the remainder would "have to be treated accordingly." Hilberg explains that the voluminous reports of the Einsatzgruppen that survived the war make clear that meant extermination.
In the summer of 1941, Himmler talked to the chief physician of the SS and the Polizei Gruppenfuhrer Dr. Grawitz about the best method for mass extermination. Grawitz recommended the use of gas chambers. [cite to affidavit of SS officer present]. Himmler swore many of the men in charge of building the killing camps and gas chambers to a personal oath of secrecy. [cite to interrogation of SS corruption expert]
In the spring of 1942, when the gas chambers were built in Poland, the mechanism of the most efficient killing method was physically manifest and the gassing began in large numbers.
The high command did not mince words in secret writings about what was happening. Goebbels said: "Not much will remain of the Jews. A judgment is being visited upon the Jews that is barbaric...the prophecy which the Fuhrer made about them for having brought on [the war] is beginning to come true in a most terrible manner." [cite to Goebbels diary]. Goebbels and Himmler also explained that later generations would have "...neither the strength nor the opportunity to finish with the Jews." [cite to Himmler speech].
[All quotations from: "The Destruction of the European Jews," by Raul Hilberg and quoted in small portions for educational purposes only.]
Who can be surprised? After all, in a speech by Hitler in 1939, he blamed the war on Jews and stated bluntly that they would be exterminated for it. He claimed the Jews laughed at his prophesies, but they would stop laughing.
To deny the overwhelming evidence painstakingly accumulated by many people over the years requires either psychosis or prejudice motivating a lack of respect for all of the lives lost, and all the surviving victims whose lives were shattered by what they had endured.
My real name is Jeff
Overwhelming evidence... laughable.
You have nothing but testimony and confessions. There is so supporting evidence. Hilberg relies on testimony from proven liars. He admitted there is not one proven case of gassing.
What document do you think best proves homicidal gassing?
What document do you think best proves homicidal gassing?
Your deflection tactics are laughable. You think I'm going to get sidetracked into some moon-landing nonsense? Puh-leeze!
I'll ask again: what document do you think best supports the extermination theory?
Give me one piece of physical/documentary evidence that best supports extermination and we'll discuss it.
You think I'm going to get sidetracked into some moon-landing nonsense? Puh-leeze!
You have nothing but testimony and confessions.
I have seen all this "evidence", Bobby. Nothing points to extermination. Zilch.
Quit being so vague and present some of this evidence.
pauliewalnuts: the evidence is easily available to anyone who has an internet connection. Use the link below to go to the Library of Congress website, where links to the following documents are provided:
Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg (Official Proceedings);
Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression (documentary evidence);
Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuremberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10 (condensed record of proceedings); and
Final Report to the Secretary of the Army on the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials Under Control Council Law No. 10.
https://www.loc.gov
A source of shorthand notes from a court reporter at the trials:
Gallagher, Charles J., Nuremberg Trial Collection, 1945-1950.
My real name is Jeff
It's a good point. Holocaust deniers like to use the trial metaphor: on the genocide of the Jews, Hitler and the Nazis are innocent until proven guilty. Well, they were proven guilty. The trial deniers call for already happened. And it was a real trial, with real defense attorneys, real defenses, and real acquittals. (Denier response: "blah blah show trial blah blah sheeple blah blah victors write the blah blah the string-pulling Jews.")
And none of the Nazis tried at Nuremberg denied the mass murder of Jews and others - none.
My real name is Jeff
Wrong! Of the top brass, only Hoess admitted to taking part in genocide (because he was tortured into doing so). He admitted to 2.5 million murders... 1.4 million more than today's figure. Sounds legit, eh?
Goering et al did not admit to genocide. They said if it happened (the keyword being IF) then they were not aware of it.
Josef Kramer, Gustav Franz Wagner, Kurt Bolender, Alexander Laak, Herbert Cukurs and Hans Frank are just some of the many who denied any knowledge of extermination.
False - you obviously have no shame in lying about the testimony that is on the record. Hoss was not tortured to obtain his confession, and none of the top Nazi brass denied they took part in genocide. It is on the record. In short, you are not a good enough liar to prevent other people with an open mind from looking at the published books, studies, films, etc., that all show evidence from PRIMARY SOURCES.
You obviously get your information from denier websites or publications by the usual lot of Jew-haters - not a reliable source of information! Your refusal to look at the actual documents from the Nuremberg trials, links to which I have provided here in this thread, shows exactly where you are coming from and your refusal to look at the facts in primary sources from the mouths of those who were actually there and took part in the mass murders. There are also many books written by scholars, which are based upon peer-reviewed research, not the imaginations of Jew-haters, that are available at libraries and book stores worldwide. If you refuse to look at real evidence, you are only willing yourself to ignorance and denial of reality. You will have to live with yourself and your prejudices, which are all too apparent to those of us willing to look at the evidence.
My real name is Jeff
HAHA, referring to Nuremberg as a real trial. That's priceless. If you think that was a fair trial, you're an idiot. You could read several legal experts' opinions on the farce that was Nuremberg, but of course you won't.
The sham courts established 'judicial notice' on the gas chambers, which meant they were accepted as fact by the court without ever providing proof, simple as that. This sham 'judicial notice' made any defence against the gas chambers claim impossible.
Very fair, eh?
For example, Rudolf Hoss, who was Commander of the largest extermination center from 1940 to 1943, testified at Nuremberg that approximately 2,500,000 Jews were murdered there by gassing and other methods, and approximately another 500,000 died there of starvation and disease.
You definitely have a dubious agenda if you are offering Wikipedia and youtube as evidence for anything.
My real name is Jeff
What if I were a Holocaust supporter using youtube links and Wikipedia? Would you consider me having a dubious agenda then? Because if you regard those websites as having been a blacklisted source, then those that also use them as a resource for trying to get me to resign into following their "agenda" wouldn't that just be an arbitrary way of looking at things?
But of course. It doesn't matter what site one uses. Do you think Nizkor has no one without slanted qualities, nor any agenda of their own? Is that what's wrong? If someone comes on here with an agenda to sell, then they aren't completely innocent? Or does it have to be your agenda? Then I'd be considered part of the gang.
The fact of the matter is everyone whom tries to claim that "dubious agenda" doesn't have anything real to add to the discussion... Did I call it a discussion? It really isn't. There's been a few people here and there that decided to talk, but usually it's the same intolerance towards those whom act kind and have no agenda other than getting to the truth, whatever that might be. You treat me like a criminal with dubious reasons of your own; to humiliate. I've harmed not one, nor ever planned on doing so.
My agenda is to find the truth. I am not going to be frightened away at someone who considers my beliefs as those which an anti-Semite would choose. That's just your own opinion. An opinion slanted by intolerance.
If it matters what you have to say, then it also matters what I have to say. But simply critiquing the sources one uses is childish. I have no dubious agenda. I'm here to see what others think. Unlike those that constantly avoid conversation for their rhetoric to try to ban others. Your agenda is pointless, even if it works.
Denying an historical event doesn't mean approving it even if it indeed happened...
What if I were a Holocaust supporter using youtube links and Wikipedia? Would you consider me having a dubious agenda then?
It doesn't matter what site one uses. Do you think Nizkor has no one without slanted qualities, nor any agenda of their own?
My agenda is to find the truth. I am not going to be frightened away at someone who considers my beliefs as those which an anti-Semite would choose. That's just your own opinion. An opinion slanted by intolerance.
If it matters what you have to say, then it also matters what I have to say. But simply critiquing the sources one uses is childish.
No, I don't think your agenda is to tell the truth, because you insist on ignoring primary source evidence of the holocaust and you instead insist on the veracity of very unreliable and biased sources to try to disprove facts that are in fact supported by many volumes of primary source documents, trial testimony, photos, films, and interviews of people who were actually there and planned and/or saw the mass murders.
Yes, I would.
So, is it still your claim that you wouldn't trust youtube?
Hey yo, rim job.
My father was given the honor (dubious honor, he called it) to be the first American to liberate a Nazi Death Camp. When he saw or heard punks like you make these absurd allegations he would jump up on his feet and ask if you wanted your teeth in a cliclet box. He talked to me at length for years about the gas chambers, ovens and a lot about the cages. The cages he always said was the worst form of torture and punishment ever devised by man. They were so bad that there purpose was to make people willing to walk into the gas chambers rather than get put in the cages. So take your stinking denial and shove it where the sun don't shine. BTW, you don't want to be spouting that BS if I'm around. And yes, everything you say is BS, my father witnessed it first hand, in detail. It made him sick at just the mention of it, just like the punks who spout this nonsense. If I get kicked off for this, I don't care, I'd prefer to tell you to your face anyway.
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@Kensolar
You said: "My father was given the honor (dubious honor, he called it) to be the first American to liberate a Nazi Death Camp. When he saw or heard punks like you make these absurd allegations he would jump up on his feet and ask if you wanted your teeth in a cliclet box. He talked to me at length for years about the gas chambers, ovens and a lot about the cages. The cages he always said was the worst form of torture and punishment ever devised by man. They were so bad that there purpose was to make people willing to walk into the gas chambers rather than get put in the cages. So take your stinking denial and shove it where the sun don't shine. BTW, you don't want to be spouting that BS if I'm around. And yes, everything you say is BS, my father witnessed it first hand, in detail. It made him sick at just the mention of it, just like the punks who spout this nonsense."
You and/or your father are lying. Not one US soldier set foot in the six camps alleged to have had extermination facilities. Look it up - holocaust historians admit that not one American liberated a camp with a homicidal gas chamber. Sure, for a time it was alleged that Buchenwald and Dachau etc. had homicidal gas chambers, but now we know they never actually had them. It was wartime propaganda.
Holocaust historians today say not one person was gassed in an American liberated camp. These alleged extermination camps (ones said to have had homicidal gas chambers) such as Auschwitz, Treblinka etc. were liberated by the Soviets.
So unless your father defected to the Red Army, he was full of *beep* Regardless of the gas chamber fairy-tales he told you, not one American liberated a camp with a homicidal gas chamber. The only gas chambers he would have seen were in his senile mind. In other words, he was a lying scumbag.
Or maybe you just made the whole story up, Kensolar? We've established he couldn't possibly have liberated a camp with a gas chamber, so either Daddy was lying or you are lying. It has to be one or the other. Which one is it? Who is lying - Daddy or you?
Kill yourself.
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i really dont know if it is a myth or not but i am sick and tired of holocaust movies. maybe 1 million times we listened and watched movies. enough is enough.
shareYou know what I do about movies I don't want to watch? I don't watch them. I also don't bellyache about how someone somewhere dared make a movie I didn't want to watch.
You might want to consider a similar strategy.
i watched coz the advertisement was not about holocaust. i am not a historian. and i dont judge . just saying... i dont remember how many times i watched the holocaust. if u repeat something too much it withers the importance. like 'i love you'... if u repeat too much after a while it is boring..
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