MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > has anyone else realized Theres not goin...

has anyone else realized Theres not going to be another Avengers movie in Phase 4?

posted 6 years ago by billbrown7071 (3195)
33 replies | jump to latest

So....

With Disney announcing thier slate of MCU release dates to 2023....

The astonishing realization that theres probably not going to be another Avengers movie until at least 2023 or 2024 has hit me

Even before the Success of EG...I thought another Avengers movie would be a certainty in Phase 4....but after The Success of EG....one would think it would be guaranteed....

but with Disney release date announcement...

Its pretty clear they have no plans for another Aveners movie in Phase 4

They announced 8 dates.

Those 8 Films will have to be

Black Widow
Doctor Strange 2
The Eternals
Black Panther 2
Captain Marvel 2
Shang Chi
GOTG 3
and Spider-Man 3

There are other people/sites guessing at the MCUs slate....all of them have these exact same films except...many have Avengers 5 instead of Spiderman 3....

But they are DEAD wrong

If theres 1 film we can 100% guarantee in Phase 4 its Spider-Man 3....

Sony has it in The contract they signed with Marvel Studios that they HAVE to Produce and release a Spider-man film at least every 3 years....

Sony sees No Money from MCU films, Spider-Man is their Most Bankable and valuable Movie asset...

Spider-Man 3 will be one of the 8 MCU phase 4 films...NO MATTER WHAT

and The other 7 are Pretty Much Concrete as well....

Widow,Shang-Chi and Eternal are in pre-production

Panther and Captain Marvel 2 and Guaranteed because they made 1 Billion +

GOTG 3 is scheduled to start production in 2020.

Doctor Strange 2 is also pretty much guaranteed, They cant wait until after 2023 to make a sequel, That would be 7 years apart from the first...

There truly isnt going to be An Avengers film in Phase 4.

basically the only way an Avengers film is coming in Phase 4 is if Disney demands it after EGs success and Marvel Studios Then for the first time, makes 4 MCU film in a year....

NONE of the 8 "Speculated" films above can be PULLED....

either Marvel Studio has no plans for an Avengers film in Phase 4....or They are going to be forced into and then make 4 MCU films in 2022 or 2023....

and I dont see Disney forcing anything on Kevin Fiege after what Hes done...If Fiege tells them he has a plan and wants to build to the next Avengers film ...even if that in 2023 or 2024...I think they'll trust him and Let him do it....

NO Avengers in Phase 4....and Probably not for at least 4 to 5 years....

really incredible

This is truly shocking especially after the Success of EG

[–] wickerman1271 (949) 6 years ago

There are not planned MCU movies in 2023 , the phase 4 is : 2 movies in 2020 , 3 in 2021 and 3 in 2022 , Avengers 5 will be in 2023 along with F4 and X-Men

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

It would be really stupid to release all of those in the same year. I also doubt they will release an "X-men" movie initially. They would probably do films about individual X-men first.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 6 years ago

Plans can change, but Kevin Fiege had said he has a five year plan for phase 4 that doesn't include the X-Men.

[–] billbrown7071 (3195) 6 years ago

There are not planned MCU movies in 2023 , the phase 4 is : 2 movies in 2020 , 3 in 2021 and 3 in 2022 , Avengers 5 will be in 2023 along with F4 and X-Men

^^^

I know

Thats why I said "There isnt going to be an Avengers movie until 2023 or 2024"

The point of the post was to point out, Out of all the release dates Disney release, none of The 8 can be for an Avengers film...

I have no doubt, 2023 and Beyond will have an Avengers film...Just NOT in Phase 4 or in any of the dates they released

[–] darkpast (9020) 6 years ago

who cares, there was just 2 Avengers within a year. Such thing as overkill.

[–] billbrown7071 (3195) 6 years ago

who cares, there was just 2 Avengers within a year. Such thing as overkill.

^^

Me....and I think 99.9% of other MCU fans

I trust Fiege...if he has a plan for An Avengers film down the road... fine...

But I was hoping for something sooner.

Just because we've been Spoiled with 4 Incredible Avengers films(I'm counting Civil War instead of Age of Ultron) in The last 7 years....doesnt Mean I cant hope for more...

In fact, I must say, The Next Avengers film really gets me excited considering It is going to be Headlined By a New team of Black Panther,Captain Marvel,Spider-Man,Doctor Strange,Star Lord and Probably others like Bucky,Falcon,S.Witch,Drax,Rocket,War Machine,Valkrie,Ant-Man, Wasp...and Maybe Hulk and Thor...

completely Understand If Fiege wants to take a break or wait, But Its Just going to be disappointing waiting Maybe 5 years for The Next Avengers film which has the potential to be really amazing with a new cast.

[–] FilmBuff (7431) 6 years ago

Shocking, yet not shocking. Marvel has learned that their success stems from making great films, not from milking great properties or building massive franchises. If they were simply out to keep doing what worked, they'd have never taken chances on seeming longshots like Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ant Man, or Captain Marvel. We'd have been given a steady diet of Iron Man, Hulk, and Spider-Man and Avengers films.

Because of that willingness to take chances on new characters rather than rehashing familiar ground, by this point if a film is a part of the MCU, it's going to have an audience. The Eternals? Who would have dreamed they'd ever have their own film, but we already know it's going to be a well-made film, and it will succeed at the box office. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for another Avengers story 4 or 5 years down the line, it just means Marvel knows that fresh characters done right can succeed just as well as can the tried and true favorites.

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

It's not shocking. The MCU was built upon talking risks. If you keep doing the same thing, people are going to get bored sooner or later. Sooner in the case of Justice League, and later in the case of Starwars.

If you look at pretty much every other big Franchise, each film sees diminishing returns unless there is a big 10 year gap between films. See Jurrassic World, TFA.

The MCU is the only franchise that has been able to keep increasing its box office returns year on year, despite continuously releasing titles. This is because they keep doing different things.

I don't know why you are assuming there will another Avengers film at all. If they do one at all, it should be in about 10 years. I think Kevin Feige already indicated that they would be going smaller and concentrating on solo films where characters sometimes cross over into each others films. That's a smart way to do it.

When the new characters are well established and the public has a big appetite to see them all together in one film, that would be the time to do a big event film. And it wouldn't have to be an Avengers film either.

Of those films you mention, Spiderman 3 and Captain Marvel 2 are not done deals. Spiderman because of the Sony situation. And Captain Marvel probably because of the reception of the film(yes please tell me about how it made a billion dollars). It's conspicuous that there has been no confirmation of a sequel. I think Captain Marvel needs a Thor style revamp, so they need to find the right person to do that.

[–] billbrown7071 (3195) 6 years ago

I don't know why you are assuming there will another Avengers film at all. If they do one at all, it should be in about 10 years. I think Kevin Feige already indicated that they would be going smaller and concentrating on solo films where characters sometimes cross over into each others films. That's a smart way to do it.

^^^

agreed with most everything you said...except this^

I have no clue where you getting there might not be another Avengers film at all or for 10 years.

There is truly ZERO chance of that happening.

Its clear They dont have plans for Phase 4...But even considering the idea They wouldnt make another film From The Biggest box office DRAWING franchise in Hollywood history is Just absurd

We Will get an Avengers in In The Next 5 years....(but It looks like in May in fact be in the 5th year)

Of those films you mention, Spiderman 3 and Captain Marvel 2 are not done deals. Spiderman because of the Sony situation

^^^

also completely confused here...

as I said above....

Spider-Man 3 Is Guaranteed, Sonys contract with Marvel Studio demands a Spider-Man film in production at least 1 once every 3 years.

and that doesnt Change UNTIL at LEAST 3 SOLO Spider-Man films have been made...

Legally Marvel Studios HAS TO MAKE a SM3 in its Next Phase.

as for Captain Marvel-

It's conspicuous that there has been no confirmation of a sequel.

^

not in the slightest...Hell there has been no official confirmation for Black Panther either...or Doctor Strange or GOTG3

thats because Marvel Studios has held off ON ALL announcement until after Endgame as to not spoil the film.

They just announced yesterday, Marvel Studios will be announcing their Slate this summer(almost certainly at Comic Con)

Your simply crazy if you dont think CM is guaranteed to be on that List

I think You are drastically overestimating how you think the reception of the film went...

The film has had Incredible box office Legs and holds, It showed no signs of any "boycott" or hold out from Audiences....

It Opened HUGE and then went on to have Incredible legs....I just see Nothing that even remotely suggests audiences didnt like the character or it needs a revamp

Captain Marvel was then Universally Loved In Endgame....

again I just see literally NOTHING you could be biasing "It needs a revamp" on...The evidence is pretty much without question Captain Marvel in BOTH her Solo and EG has went over with flying Colors...

There isnt a chance in The World...Literally ZERO that CM2 isnt 100% guarantee for Phase 4 and for 1 of the 8 release dates announced

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

If they have another team up movie, I don't think it will be called Avengers. What Avengers titled film comes after "endgame"? All of the biggest franchises fail eventually if studios keep pumping out sequels. Look ate Spiderman, Sony kept pumping out Spiderman films untill everyone got bored of him. And now they are promoting him as the "new Iron" man, which reeks of desperation and cynical marketing that is typical of Sony.

Marvel have got where they are by not being repetitive.
People were thought Iron Man 4 was "guaranteed" because it was such a big franchise. Iron Man 3 made 1.2 billion. But they stopped at trilogies like Kevin feige said they would. Now Iron Man didn't stop, he carried on in the Avengers. I think in the same way they can have more team up films, without calling them "Avengers".

Even the people who didn't hate Captain Marvel didn't love it. If the exact same film had been released, but it was set in the DC universe, the film would have made maybe 400m worldwide. As for it having "great legs", well obviously opening before Endgame has had a big influence on that. We saw a similar effect with Black Panther.

And you are entirely wrong about the sequels of other movies. They have all been confirmed. Because they have to sign up the directors for new contracts. Ryan Coogler was signed up to make a sequel within 2 months of Black Panther coming out. Derrickson has already written a script for Doctor Strange 2. and James Gunn has openly talked about Guardians 3.

I don't know where you are getting your information about Spider-man. I have heard from several different sources that they only signed up for 2 Spider-man films. They have to make a new deal for a third Spider-man film in the MCU. And sony are set on their Spiderverse, so they might have plans to end the deal with Disney so that they can put him in Venom films etc. It would be a dumb move, but Amy Pascal is an idiot, so it could happen.

[–] FilmBuff (7431) 6 years ago

Why would you assume Marvel won't make a sequel to Captain Marvel? It is one of the most financially successful films they've made to date, and was released to critical and audience praise. There is zero chance they don't release a sequel, and zero reason to expect them to do some sort of "revamp" to a hugely successful film.

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

Critical praise? It has the basically the same critic and audience rating on RT as Ghostbusters(2016). Which is to say that critics are afraid to give honest criticism of *perceived* feminist movies. I've heard many people say that it is the worst MCU movie to date. The IMDB rating is the worst of any MCU film so close to its release. There are MCU films with lower ratings, but those went down years after the films were released. Thor:the Dark world had a 7.1 rating as recently as 2 years ago. Black Panther had a 7.6 or 7.7 at a similar time after its release. That means the rating is almost certainly to end up the worst of the MCU. The audience rating on RT is already the worst, although in the past the RT audience score has been easier to vote bomb. I'm not sure if they fixed it.

And if you really think Captain Marvel was a success, name me one MCU character who you would rank her as being more likeable than.

[–] galahadfairlight (414) 6 years ago

Irrelevant.

The "backlash" had no effect, other than to drive those pissed off by Larsons comments to dive bomb Rotten Tomatoes to prove a point. And then when RT protected their site, they dive bombed reviews and audience ratings.

It doesn't matter what the critic or audience rating is, or whether it is similar to the score for Ghostbusters(2016), the latter made $229million and Captain Marvel is still making money at $1.21BILLION.

There is a distinction between the two movies.

Ghostbusters(2016) was not wanted, fans majority wanted Ghostbusters 3, not a reboot, thats why it faced a backlash, and thats why it lost money. Sure, Sony tried to make it about a few vocal morons moaning about "but the wimmin", and some of the cast tried the same, but that was NEVER the majority problem.

Captain Marvel, the complaints have been about a few things Brie Larson said, and frankly, most people don't care, didn't hear, or either were not offended, or took what she said and ignored it, and some cried about it.

The "backlash" was never about the movie itself, it was always about Brie, and when you consider that the majority of the world doesn't give a fuck what Geeks and Gamers, Nerdrotic and The Quartering have got to say on Youtube, that puts the "backlash" into perspective.

These are the same guys that were making countless videos for their "fans" to not see the movie, and yet went out to see it themselves so they could review it for their Youtube channels!!

The rating is irrelevant, because several times over recent years the audience score hasn't always matched the critics score, but i'm not too keen on giving any kind of credence to the score for Captain Marvel, because thousands went out of their way to sabotage the movie all because they didn't like what Brie Larson said.

Pathetic!

Ironically, i'm no SJW fan, I find them tiresome, but I separate the actors from their personal lives.

Want to know who in the Marvel cast is a bigger SJW than Brie Larson?

1/2

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

I only care about the quality of the movie and her performance. There are plenty of people who have no agenda who have said the movie was terrible. Tyrone Magnus, Chris Stuckman to name two. Red Letter Media. A few people gave it faint praise, like the Reel Rejects, but frankly I just think they are too cowardly to give an honest review. That was my impression. I haven't seen a single review that gives it high praise.

I'm wondering, have you actually seen Captain Marvel? The movie was really bad. Her character was really bad. It's not hard to see this. There are plently of bad films that made good box office. Suicide Squad made 800m and didn't have the benefit of playing 2 months before the biggest film of all time and being part of the same franchise. But everyone aknowledged the film was terrible despite it's excellent box office. It didn't get a sequel and they hired Gunn to reboot it. Why can't you just aknowledge that Captain Marvel was a crap film? It seems like you are letting the offscreen controversy blind you from the obvious. I wanted it to be good. I was excited to see it. It was crap. As stuckman said, honest criticism is how we get better movies. Not putting on blinders and pretending it was good. This is what happened with Man of Steel and led to the turd that was BvS and Justice League. If fans had just been honest and demanded a change, BvS might have been a great movie. Stop defending crap. You will just ensure that the MCU is doomed to mediocrity if you reward mediocrity.

[–] galahadfairlight (414) 6 years ago

Chris Evans.

Want to know who i'd rather play Captain America over Chris Evans?

No-one!!

I don't care that Chris Evans is an SJW, I just care that the roles he takes, he makes his best efforts, and Chris Evans has done that with Cap and theres no-one i'd replace him with.

Captain Marvel 2 is going to happen, Brie Larson will be in the title role, and shes bound to say something between now and then that gets up someones nose.

But to pretend that Captain Marvel wasn't a success is just sour grapes.

It was no Ghostbusters(2016)

2/2

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

See my post above. I care about the films and the performances being good. I have at no point mentioned Brie being an SJW in my posts, yet the bulk of your response is talking about an offscreen controversy that I haven't mentioned.

I also never mentioned Brie being recast. That is not going to happen. Even though I don't love her in the role.

[–] FilmBuff (7431) 6 years ago

Can you back up your outlandish-sounding assumption that critics are lying, afraid to offer their honest opinions? There was nothing overtly feminist about Captain Marvel. The superhero is female, but that doesn't make it feminist. I saw no political agenda being put forth, and never felt I was watching anything with any statement whatsoever. It just felt like a superhero movie.

Relying on internet website audience ratings isn't going to give you a very accurate sense of what audiences think of a film, especially one that has a small, angry contingent of people like you desperate to see it fail, and rating it 0 stars 1000 times over. A much *better* metric is word of mouth and box office, and in both regards Captain Marvel excelled. I heard nothing but very positive things from friends, coworkers, and strangers, as did you, though you'll deny it. And the box office-- over a billion dollars. That tells you people were interested in seeing it, likely more than once.

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

My God man, I wrote the word *perceived* in asterisks so that you couldn't miss it, and you still ignored it.

I find it funny that you claim that strangers are coming up to you and telling you how much they like Captain Marvel. I'm sure that happened and you are not making shit up.

And see my other posts in this thread. Idiots like you who are more concerned about virtue signalling than if the film was actually good will ensure that we get mediocrity in the MCU for years to come. Thanks a lot.

[–] FilmBuff (7431) 6 years ago

It isn't a case of strangers walking up on the street saying "Gosh but Captain Marvel is a great film." It's when I find myself in a conversation with a stranger and the film comes up, it's been unanimous thus far that it's a great film. I'm a bartender, and I talk with hundreds of people each week, and the most common topics are sports and movies. Just yesterday a guy was sitting at the bar wearing a Deadpool shirt. I made a comment about the shirt, and he asked if I'd seen Endgame, we talked about how great it was, and we started talking about other recent films, and among those he mentioned as recent great movies, not all comic book films but just recent films in general, he mentioned Captain Marvel as being a really fun film to watch. I've had variations of that conversation at least 100 times since the movie came out, and I've yet to hear someone say they didn't like the film. Take it for what it's worth.

As for your parting comment, or rather parting insult, you're way off again. If you believe that I'm going to pretend to enjoy a film, or even be subconsciously swayed to enjoy a film, because of virtue signaling, you have zero idea what my beliefs are regarding film or politics. I believe virtue signaling, feminism, political correctness, and censorship are probably the single greatest ideological threats the U.S. is facing today. While I would not preemptively dislike a film if I felt it was putting forth a message along those lines, I would certainly notice it and unless I felt the film had a real reason to include such a message my opinion of the film would be lowered. Case in point the TV show Jessica Jones. I watched the 1st season in its entirety as it tied into Daredevil, but after an episode or two found myself hating it. It felt as if rather than a script they'd let a roomful of feminists and activists make a list of necessary talking points and made sure to check each one of the list in lieu of plot, character development, or logic.

Meanwhile, when watching Captain Marvel I never felt for even an instant I was watching anything with a message or a political slant. You could have replaced Brie Larson with a male actor and not needed to change anything in the script beyond some she's and her's to he's and him's.

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

OK, these are anecdotes and your personal opinion which I can't refute. We will see if and when the sequel comes out how successful the film really was.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 6 years ago

I have a feeling that Marvel films will decline if there isn't a serial story being told and various heroes aren't included in the movies.

It will get boring for people.

[–] FilmBuff (7431) 6 years ago

Keep in mind the first 22 films didn't tell much of a serial story. Each film, other than Endgame, is a self-contained story that one can watch with no prior knowledge of any other MCU films. There are subtle moments, usually in post-credit scenes, that gradually laid the framework for Infinity War and Endgame, but those were in no way the draw for fans. Literally no one said "I'm going to see Ant Man because I need to see how it continues the story from Iron Man."

Marvel has had massive success for one reason-- they make excellent films. They have disproven the long-held belief that a superhero film's success is based entirely on the popularity of the main character. The conventional wisdom was "put Superman/Spider-Man/Batman in it and it will sell." Filmmakers now realize that even a beloved hero's film can flop, and an utter unknown can succeed.

Go back in time to 2002 and ask 100 random people in the street "have you heard of Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Groot, Rocket Raccoon, Antman, Dr. Strange, Black Panther, or Captain Marvel?" and it's guaranteed that less than 10% of people would recognize a single name from that list. More people would be unable to guess those are actual superheroes than would know any of them. Go to a movie studio and pitch a film starring one and get laughed out the door. Yet, look at the success of the MCU.

I imagine the next decade will be similar-- films about unknown-to-the-masses heroes and villains, subtly interlinked with some post-credit threads, culminating in some major event film. Secret Wars? Dr. Doom or Magneto doing something? Galactus? Who knows, but whatever it is, 10 years from now we'll be posting wondering if the upcoming film will be the first to make $3 billion, or whatever, at the box office.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 6 years ago

I agree that they weren't entirely serial story films, but the implication was there. We all knew that Ant Man, although not a great film, or character, was going to relate to Avengers. So, we watched it just because we wanted to be familiar with the character when the "real" movies were released.

Comic books used to do the same thing. You'd buy an issue of a book you didn't care about just because it was part of a crossover. It worked with comics and worked GREAT with these movies. I was going to see films I didn't even really want to see, just because I knew it was part of worldbuilding.

If they don't do that again, they're crazy!

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 6 years ago

Of those Guardians of the Galaxy III is the only one I'm really interested in.

Spider-man? We'll see. I'll probably see part II and see how that goes.

His endless babbling and nervous chattering is starting to annoy me. If he outgrows that a bit I may warm to him more. Also, I'd already seen 5 Spider-man movies and I saw this current Spider-man in Civil War. All those other Spider-men got a grasp on their powers fairly quickly (this one seemed on top of his game in Civil War). In Homecoming he was a bumbling klutz who seemed to not have any clue how to harness his abilities and control them.

If Spidey is no longer a bumbling klutz who still doesn't know how to control his powers and if he tones down the endless nervous babbling than I'll like it more. If he is still like this and this becomes his regular M/O than I'll skip Spider-man III and give up on this version of him.

Dude, I can't wait for Guardians III and some more hilarious Drax and the gang on an adventure set to another cool soundtrack. Hopefully Thor will still be with them too.

Captain Marvel? I haven't seen her film and I know nothing about this character (I don't read comics) Maybe I'll see it when it is on regular TV.

Eternals? I don't know what that is. I can't see myself rushing out to see this. They've pretty much already done all the characters I sort of had heard of....Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Thor. I'm not a comic reader so all of these other characters don't interest me.

I just lucked out and stumbled into the Guardians of the Galaxy via Netflix.

If Iron Man, Thor, Captain America are gone (Falcon is Falcon....giving him a shield is never going to make him Captain America to me...he is just a side kick character to me) than the Avengers are dead to me. You can't just throw a bunch of new people....Marvel and Ant Man and Valkyrie or whoever else they try and call it "AVENGERS" and think I'll care.

The Avengers are over.

[–] sokar (2098) 6 years ago

I agree with what you said the MCU finished with Endgame. Spider-Man 2 looks good and lets be honest Guardians 3 with Thor in it will be great wth the return of James Gunn.

But just to clarify your last sentence "Ant-Man, The Wasp, Iron Man, Thor, and Hulk" were the founding members of the Avengers in the 60's.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 6 years ago

Well, in the comic book world that is true....I'll take your word for it.

I'm not a comic book reader so I'm only commenting via the movie world. In the movies (which is all I know about these guys) Ant-Man and Wasp weren't.

If I were a comic reader I'd probably feel differently about any new Avenger films with these other characters in there.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 6 years ago

I wouldn't jump to the conclusions that there won't be an Avengers film in phase 4. We have dates for eight films, but do we know those are the only films in phase 4? The last I heard, Kevin Fiege had a five year plan for phase 4.

Also we just got two in two years. I'm not too worried about getting another one for a while.

[–] cyberbob (3488) 6 years ago

I think that if they just kept releasing Avengers films on some predetermined time-cycle then they would lose their significance and there would be no true sense of finality to Endgame. Basically, Endgame would have been a lie

Endgame was supposed to represent as a cut-off point for the franchise so far. The movies will be very different going forward. Avengers 1 was released 4 years after the original Iron Man, so it's not really that long of a wait. We've just become accustomed to frequent Avengers films because we had Age of Ultron in 2015, Infinity War in 2018, and Endgame in 2019 (and Civil War was essentially an Avengers film too)

But you can't keep doing this forever. Avengers films would lose their potency if we had one for sure every single Phase, especially since we are seeing more crossovers with characters appearing outside of their franchises

[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

We also had a Revengers film in 2017.