Meh... ?
with the exception of some imagery, the finale itself felt quite underwhelming and pulled straight out of the ass.
And it seems there is no resolve at sight for Mr. Cooper and Laura.
Next season/movie perhaps?
I loved the first hour. Second hour lost me. So many questions. Like for instance, why were there two Diane's at the hotel after they crossed over?? With everything going on, why was Coop in such a hurry to sleep with her?? LOL. Maybe it's just me. Was Bob destroyed for good??
shareYeah some stuff didn't add up.
I took Diane watching another Diane as her remembering what happened between her and DoppelCoop... or that she saw herself as a hooker sleeping in motels...
It's interesting that Coop and Diane had sex. This time it was consensual [though it felt way too forced, like, something that must be done for a specific goal. The way I took it was to give Diane some sort of resolve from the raping].
Bob fight was... bad. Goofy in many ways and anti-climatic.
No Jewday in sight either.
It felt so forced...
Thanks to you and everyone else in this thread. I understand more now. Will rewatch this weekend.
shareLike others said, Bob may not be gone. Cooper seemed to be channeling Bob here and there after he crossed over. I wonder where Diane/Linda went when she left the hotel. It's not like she had a purse with her.
shareThink it was DoppelCooper and not Bob that seems to be mixed with New Dale.
yeah where did she go?
shareReally? They obviously were in an alternate reality, because Coop saved Laura, so this sets us up for another season possibly. How can you be pissed about that? Some people are never satisfied.
shareHe saved Laura.... but why didn't she know who she was... why was there a dead guy on her house... and why was possessed Sarah bashing her photo if she had been saved... there would be no reason for it... and wtf happened to Jewday???
:(
I'm NOT satisfied.
Maybe we will find out more in the next season...or not.
shareKyle M. said he didn't get to hang on to Cooper's suit. Maybe there's something in that sentence... maybe not.
shareKyle M said the suit went back to the wardrobe department but that, fingers crossed, it may get worn again (words to that effect).
It comes down to this - if people want another season (or more than one) then they need to contact Showtime and tell them. If enough people contact them, they will finance it, providing Lynch agrees, which I think and the majority of the cast will agree to.
I would be pretty happy with a Movie. I think I would even prefer it to a new Series.
shareSo my thoughts are this, the original run of Twin Peaks, and this season up until now, took place in an alternate timeline. There was no saving Laura so Coop had to enter another one.
He tells Diane his plan and she wants to go with him. She tells him things might be different because, after all, it's a different world they enter. After driving through the portal they stop at a hotel in the middle of the night. This is where the timelines begin to converge and because of that convergence she sees another version of herself.
They try to have sex, which should be great since it's consensual, but the alternate versions of themselves from this timeline are coming into reality. That's why it's so weird and awkward. She becomes Linda and he becomes Richard.
The next morning the timeline has switched, we see a different hotel and Cooper is now "Richard" although he doesn't quite know it yet.
He goes and finds "Laura" who isn't Laura because we're in a different timeline. He thinks she can stop Mother, or Judy. He drives her to the house and we see the owners. The owners, by the way, are the real life owners of the house. This gives my theory more credit because they've now entered our dimension. Laura freaks out because she starts to remember what she went through in the alternate timeline. Cooper freaks out because he realizes it's a different time, a different place, another timeline.
I really hope they pick it up but in my opinion it's a good ending. As long as there is evil in OUR world, Cooper and Laura will never win. Defeating Judy essentially means all evil, which is spread by her minions such as Bob, would be gone. It can't be if we look at the world around us.
With that all said... I'd love another season. I'd love to see Cooper get Laura to face Judy/Mother. I'd love to see more COOPER IN TWIN PEAKS! We did not get enough of that. I'd also love to find out what the hell happened to Audrey! She is the most frustrating part of the show. I want more of her!
1 - how does timelines change a person from being A to B? I would agree it's a different reality as Cooper says, but even with time shifting A would still be A either in the past or future.
2 - Cooper knows he is in a different reality, so why the surprise?
3 - If Cooper saved Laura from dying. why would he take Laura to her home if her killer is there in the first place?
4 - If he was searching for Laura in that other reality but he is confronted with a person saying she's not Laura Palmer, why would he try to make her remember someone she is not?
5 - Finally, why wouldn't he know which time he was in, given that he would recognize that the version of Laura Palmer he is seeing is older than the younger version he saved?
6 - What happened to Diane?
1 - how does timelines change a person from being A to B? I would agree it's a different reality as Cooper says, but even with time shifting A would still be A either in the past or future.
Sorry, when I said timeline I meant like an alternate version of the current timeline. As in, when he entered our timeline he took on the role of who he would be in a different world essentially. Almost like a tulpa.
2 - Cooper knows he is in a different reality, so why the surprise?
Cooper knew it'd be a different timeline and was willing to go there to save Laura. I think he was so hell bent on his mission, which is why he risked his relationship with Diane, that he couldn't logic his way through it. He thought if he took Laura to her home, things would happen and he could fight Judy. That's not how it played out and he realized that in this world, no one is the same. It's a new set of cards so to speak.
3 - If Cooper saved Laura from dying. why would he take Laura to her home if her killer is there in the first place?
She's the hero. She's been the hero since the start of the show and he believes she's the only one who can defeat Sarah Palmer/Judy. We see this early on when Laura's face is filled with white light while her mother's is filled with the monster. We also see that in episode 8 when the Fireman sends her down to Earth in order to combat Bob.
4 - If he was searching for Laura in that other reality but he is confronted with a person saying she's not Laura Palmer, why would he try to make her remember someone she is not?
Again, for the same reason as #3. She's the only one that can stop Judy. He has lost his relationship and most of his life trying to fight this evil. This is the only move he has left other than giving up and starting his life over.
5 - Finally, why wouldn't he know which time he was in, given that he would recognize that the version of Laura Palmer he is seeing is older than the younger version he saved?
When he freaks out about the year it's because he's coming to terms with the new owners of the house. If it is 2017, Sarah should still be there. He's trying to figure out what to do next and realizes that either the timeline is off or he's in a different world. I will admit, if he had said "Where are we..." it would have helped my theory more but I still believe it fits.
6 - What happened to Diane?
When they were having sex she realized she's no longer just Diane and he's no longer Cooper. They've become other people. She realizes that he literally gave up his, and her, identity to complete his mission. She doesn't want to be a part of that.
That's why she covered his face while they had sex. It wasn't the man she wanted to see.
Also, I know this show is very dense and this episode was particularly challenging, in both good and bad ways. I could be wrong but I think this theory covers most of the bases and I find it a satisfactory ending. EXCEPT, for Audrey... Let's get a movie or season 4!!!
I think people are over reacting with regards to Audrey's situation. Namely, it WAS resolved. We see her coming out of her fugue state in the Roadhouse. Was she waking up from a coma? Was she coming to in a mental institution? It doesn't matter! What matters is she was in a fugue state and now she's not.
Similarly, the reaction to the frogbug girl disconclusion is empty. Was it Sarah? Was it someone else? I doesn't matter! What matters is it happened somewhere at sometime to someone.
If Audrey 'came to' in the new alternate reality then it is important as she will play a bigger role in season 4, because she probably remembers everything from the previous life and will help the New Cooper (again).
I don't think she was snapped out of it with 'Charlie's' help - I think she was bounced to the new Universe.
The jury is still out on frogmoth girl for now.
1 - that makes more sense.
2 - And yet he still lead the Not-Laura Palmer to Laura's home. I'm inclined to think that nothing we see there is real and it started with his facial image lingering on the screen.
3 - True. That makes sense.
4 - Makes sense, in a more personal way to Cooper's own sense of Justice.
That might be the case. Maybe he's back in the lodge or something and this is just some vision forced on him by Mother to get him to back the hell off. Give him a nightmare to live out or something like that.
As to your point #2, he was lucky to have found her on his "spirit quest" or whatever you want to call it but him leading her to his old home makes sense to me. It's where this all started. He has the weapon for good, Laura, and knows where the evil originated... He knows they need to face off head to head but he isn't sure what to do once he gets there, especially with Sarah gone.
I think the fact that the restaurant was called Judy's and that alt-Laura worked there could be points in favor of your theory though. Since it is very nightmarish and quite a big coincidence he'd end up there. I just figured that was part of his "spirit quest" or whatever. He knew Laura was in the area and that Judy had something to do with it.
Ah, ok. So independently of the "vessel" being Laura or not it only matters that the "spirit" resides in it to vanquish the creature [in this case, we visually see the Not-Laura as Laura, but what matters is that she was made by the Fireman with the blessing of Miss Dido]. I can role with that.
Defeating Judy essentially means all evil, which is spread by her minions such as Bob, would be gone.
No it doesn't. Evil certainly long predates the atomic blast that let Bob and friends in, let alone Judy herself who apparently came in through the box or at least was somewhere far from earth not too long ago. Judy and Bob are just particularly evil beings. share
That's a good point. I'd argue then that Judy is certainly a source, a great source, and the fact that abuse and danger are still prominent in the area means Judy is alive and well. I still believe it tried to tie in with our real world.
shareThe first hour was in many ways the Finale to the season. The ending was the successful plan to destroy Bob. It was like the most complicated Pool shot ever! When we saw the guy with the green glove, the brain smashing glove, you wrote him off as a whimsical allusion to the odd world of David Lynch's Lucid Dream world. It worked out. Diane and Dale together, Cooper as we remember him most the true blue FBI man.
Hour 2 after Dale goes back to the Lodges(For the life of me I don't know which is which) he reunites with Diane on a road trip of 430 Miles. Exactly. Lynch doesn't waste our time having to have some other characters tell Cooper This, he just acts on the information. We know he's been given it.
At the 430 Mile marker Cooper and Diane drive into another reality. Time and location change. They change. At least Diane changes. While Dale is registering for the Motel Room, Diane's sees her Doppel. Or is the Diane in the Car the Doppel? The next morning Diane leaves a note and mentions their names, but all wrong. Are they their names in a 'Different' Reality? Laura Palmer isn't Laura Palmer. The Palmer House in Twin Peaks isn't owned by the Palmers, not even the previous owners. Something about REALITY has fundamentally changed.
Was Dale's and Diane's drive past that Mile Marker the impetus for this Universe Shift? Are all the other characters changed too?
I have an odd feeling, since David Lynch likes to homage other shows, movies and the Zeitgeist of culture, this was a nod to the Star Trek Reboot which had the universe change in a time travel event.
My gripe is with why a random character that appears close to the final episodes with a Deus Ex Machina McGuffin vanquishing the big bad guy and not Cooper or Laura, given that they were the two main characters who had faced him previously?
The reality changing also felt like a cop out. Am easy way out of the mess. It still wouldn't make sense why he would take young Laura to her mother's place when her killer lives right there.
"Deus Ex Machina McGuffin "
Sorry, but your watching Twin Peaks, not CSI. We suspended reality 26 years ago. This show is all dreamland, part nightmare, Part Pop Culture satire, part nostalgic road trip....plus alot of other parts I'm forgetting. But none of those parts is a crime procedural.
I'm sorry but story writing is an essential part of any genre. It makes it compelling or not. A character that appears out of the blue near the ending with "the destiny" to vanquish the big bad guy is bad story telling. All Lynch movies have a modicum of sense and story telling thus far.
This is the first time he grabs a character that is irrelevant and makes him the hero for no reason. Which is specially obtuse given that Cooper's mission to save Laura involved his confrontation with Bob previously.
So, to have a Deus Ex Machina McGuffin [because that is what that glove is, given that it appears out of nowhere via a character that also appears randomly with the feeble connection to the FIreman that we don't even get to see meeting him] atleast give it to either Cooper or Laura; the lead characters of the story.
So which is it, a Deus Ex Machina or a Macguffin? There is no such theory in film criticism as a Deus Ex Machina Macguffin.
Hitchcock coined the term Macguffin as some plotpoint that drives or triggers the plot, while Deus Ex Machina which literally translates as a God Machine in the resolution of the plot. One starts a plot, one ends it.
A Deus Ex machina is a plot device that comes out of nowhere without any substantiated reason for it.
A McGuffin is a plot device that grants the upper hand to a character or that drives the plot to a resolution.
The guy with the green glove came out of nowhere - Deus Ex Machina
The guy's green glove vanquishes the bad guy - McGuffin.
Guy with Green Glove that comes out of nowhere close to the ending and that never appeared in the whole series, and that vanquishes bad guy - Deus Ex Machina Mcguffin/Out of the ass plot device.
Want to split more hairs or can we call it a day?
No, you should have paid more attention in your Intro to Film 101 class.
The "Deus Ex Machina" which literally means 'God From a Machine", is named as such because it describes an event and/or a solution to a problem that is virtually miraculous and unforeseen.
A MacGuffin is as I said. But do you need me to cut 'n' paste it from a Hitchcock quote? OKAY.
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In fiction, a "MacGuffin" — sometimes spelt "McGuffin" or "Macguffin" — is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist (and sometimes the antagonist) is willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to pursue, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so desirable. A MacGuffin, therefore, functions merely as "a plot element that catches the viewers' attention or drives the plot of a work of fiction". Common examples are money, victory, glory, survival, a source of power, a potential threat, a mysterious but highly desired item or object, or simply something that is entirely unexplained.
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Mc·Guf·fin
[məˈɡəfin]
NOUN
MacGuffin (noun)
an object or device in a movie or a book that serves merely as a trigger for the plot.
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No, you should chill out and learn to read.
"the "Deus Ex Machina" which literally means 'God From a Machine", is named as such because it describes an event and/or a solution to a problem that is virtually miraculous and unforeseen. "
Answer: enters the green glove dude.
At no point in season 1, 2 and FWWM did the character appear. He is a Deus Ex Machina plot device to resolve the Bob problematic. He appeared out of nowhere near the ending as "a solution to a problem that is virtually mraculous and unforseen". Ie, he is a "Deus Ex Machina" device.
Case closed.
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"In fiction, a "MacGuffin" — sometimes spelt "McGuffin" or "Macguffin" — is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist (and sometimes the antagonist) is willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to pursue, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so desirable."
Answer: Enters the green glove.
Examples of McGuffins:
The Case - Pulp Fiction
Ark of the Covenant - Indiana Jones
The One Ring - Lord of the Rings
The green glove - Twin Peaks
Without the Green glove, Bob wouldn't be defeated. Green Glove is a straight out of the ass Mcguffin that never appeared in the series and appears near the end to resolve the Bob issue.
Case closed.
Still want to go down the strawman lane? How about you go take Hitchcock out of his grave and ask if he agrees?
"Case Closed" ?
No, it was bored to death. But I do know you took intro to film 101 as a College Freshman.
So green gloved comic book boy was a Deus Ex Machina, not a MacGuffin. The thing that made him interesting was why would this guy be given such a comic book like a super power. Until that moment it seemed like it was whimsy, which so much of this series lent itself to. It's like asking for the truth and meaning of Cotton Candy. It has no meaning, but people have fun eating it.
Sunny-jim and Dougie Jones Vegas family was whimsical. It approached slapstick comedy. Nothing in this, or for that matter any of David Lynch's work conformed to any rules. You may have seen 'Eraserhead', but I studied it for weeks when it was the regular Midnight Saturday movie at the Roxie in San Francisco. His vision always has, and always will, probably, exist as a Lucent dream lefty up for interpretation.
"So green gloved comic book boy was a Deus Ex Machina, not a MacGuffin. "
Deux Ex Machina guy has a McGuffin that just so happens to vanquish the big bad guy... how lucky the characters were, hey?
I at least made progress in your stopping to conflate both 'Macguffin and Deus Ex Machina, which are separate ideas in Film criticism theory. I guess the future may not be all lost to a generation of Hipster dufus-ness.
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Bingo!
sharethis was a nod to the Star Trek Reboot which had the universe change in a time travel event.
Supposedly that created an alternate universe that didn't change the original universe. Which is moronic since any Star Trek fan knows they often changed their own universe by traveling to the past. But JJ Abrams confessed to not even being a Star Trek fan. He was just out to make a quick buck off an established franchise as he was with Star Wars.
Bottom line is that would be a terrible thing to nod to. share
I'm not a JJ Abrams fan and I think his Star Trek reboot series is mediocre at best. And to clarify the story, the universe in Trek was the same universe UP TO the moment Kirk is born and his father dies...etc...etc... blah blah... Not a fan of the reboot.
But my point still holds, and it is IMHO only as a possible interpretation. But after Dale and Diane drive past 430, something fundamental changes.
"why was Coop in such a hurry to sleep with her?? LOL. "
It's been at least 25 years....
"why were there two Diane's at the hotel after they crossed over??"
The story is clearly now about the duality of the individual. Everyone has a doppelganger at least. Also, it let us know that some change occurred when Cooper and Diane agreed to drive past 430. There was something that happened.
We may want to demand some kind of orderly explanation were available, but since when did orderly apply to the 'Twin Peaks' universe. As said in episode 17, they exist in a dream. This all exists in a dream. Treat it as such. Only the fool expects this story to comply with some rule of order or story telling.
"Only the fool expects this story to comply with some rule of order or story telling."
"why was Coop in such a hurry to sleep with her?? LOL. "
It's been at least 25 years.... "
The irony.