MovieChat Forums > Manchester by the Sea (2016) Discussion > Political take on Manchester By The Sea

Political take on Manchester By The Sea

posted 8 years ago by brux (14840)
12 replies | jump to latest

This movie sort of illustrated what George Lakoff the neuroscientist
called "the strict father" mentality, which he believes is the basic
morality of Republican/Conservative thought. Subliminally I think
that is why it got so much attention. This movie was almost forced
on people - it is an average kind of boring movie, nothing really
that special about it, but it got an Academy Award, and then here it
is almost overnight on Amazon.Com where I saw it for free.

I have some questions to consider ... at the end of the movie, what
do you feel about Lee? Do you like him, or dislike him. Do you think he
deserves to live? Does he deserve to die. Should he end his life? Does
he ever deserve to be happy? Should he kill himself, or do some kind of penance. Do you end the movie with the feeling that Lee is coming back
at all?

These are questions they movie does not explore.

I look at a lot of movies as being political, because I think they are.
They are produced for a profit inside or a system that needs to
justify and perpetuate itself.

I think the overall message of this movie is that Lee is a loser,
that losers are unredeemable, and they should know it and accept
it. That they deserve punishment and nothing from society ... that
is another aspect of "Conservative" thought. That is, you help people
you actually hurt them and hurt society.

The aspects are all there. And so why is this movie so popular, or
was it really popular or the movie industry just wants people to see
it and absorb the story.

And then, now, Lee is a young healthy working man. What happens
when he gets older and needs health care or social security, all big
negative targets for Conservatives ... how does he survive?

I think the whole construction of what Conservative thought has
come to represent is all a big smokescreen for the greed for money
and power of the people who have become the leaders of our country
now, personified with Donald Trump.

They do not care to hear what Americans think, they just want to
win and implement their will, to get more power and more money
in order to reshape the country and the world. To that end they
make speeches and arguments that use positive terms, but really
what they mean is that they have theirs and they can take care
of the losers in their families, think George W. Bush - even make
them President, but they do not want to pay their taxes to do
anything for anyone else, particularly if they are a religion, sex,
race or anything different from what they can accept.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 8 years ago

Ah, okay. I'm not an American so I'm not familiar with American politics. In fact, I thought Manchester in the movie title was Manchester, England... and the By The Sea part was just some artsy movie titles fluffs. I never knew there is a place called Manchester By The Sea in USA. Lol.

There is apparently also a movie with Bruce Willis in it, and it has Venice in the title that I thought was Venice, Italy but actually is yet another place in the USA.

About the meaning of the movie that Lee is a loser. Well, of course he is. He lost everything. People who lost are the losers. We can't all be winners...

That they deserve nothing but punishment by society, I don't think that's ideal. Nobody really wants that. But that's what happen in this world. It's a dog eat dog world afterall.

The American two-party system is of couse not perfect. It devides your country into two. While it's still better than one-party system of communist countries, many other countries have multi-party system.

The drawback of having two-party system is everything tend to be black and white. If you this then you are a Liberal. If you that then you are a Conservative. Reality is people comes in many different varieties. Some does not conform to this forced duality.

[–] Daggerboard (581) 8 years ago

"That they deserve punishment and nothing from society ... that
is another aspect of "Conservative" thought. That is, you help people
you actually hurt them and hurt society."

That is absolutely not "conservative" thought. We want people to get the help they need. We just feel it should be at a more local level for better control over waste and fraud. It helps focus on those truly in need. Communities learn who's cheating the system. D.C. just throws money everywhere with billions of waste.

"And then, now, Lee is a young healthy working man. What happens
when he gets older and needs health care or social security, all big
negative targets for Conservatives ... how does he survive?"

Health care and social security aren't targets for conservatives. We want to fix the healthcare system/insurance system to normalize costs so that more people can afford insurance and doctor's care. Social Security will run out of money soon, so we want to make adjustments so it will last longer, not destroy it. As far as Lee goes, if he's a young, healthy, working man, why doesn't he use some of his extra cash he's using for booze and start a retirement account? Is planning for the future not an option? The government is not there to provide individual welfare, it's there to PROMOTE the GENERAL welfare. Individual welfare should be a local safety net for those truly in need. Local charities and churches can help. Right now 20% of Americans get some sort of welfare. Do you really think that many Americans are in desperate need?

It's sad that so many on the left have to demonize those on the right instead of having honest debate. The highest dem leaders are now claiming the republicans want to kill millions of people. Pathetic. The dem party actually supports the killing of tens of millions helpless human beings, but they demonize us for wanting to make the healthcare system better overall.

[–] brux (14840) 8 years ago

>> We want people to get the help they need. We just feel it should be at a more local level for better control over waste and fraud.

I'd give you that. I disagree with it completely because it means unequal and less opaque, but I'll stipulate you are telling the truth for yourself personally. I do not think that is true of the leaders of the GOP and the leaders of Conservative thought, people such as Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, etc. I think it used to be true of Republicans back as far as Nixon, and maybe halfway under Reagan, but not since.

>> We want to fix the healthcare system/insurance system to normalize costs so that more people can afford insurance and doctor's care.

Same answer, in fact I'd call BS on that since all of you Republicans see what is going on with the repeal of ObamaCare and what is proposed to replace it, and I've heard a virtual deafening silence in terms of anyone at all in the GOP doing anything by sticking by monopolies in health care and drugs with no oversight. Right there, what you said is laughable, and in fact the far-right Libertarians like Ron Paul think people should die, he said it many times on the debate stage and has had plenty of time to think it over and change his mind.

We get doubletalk from Republicans claiming they want to make things better and fairer, but everything they touch turns into a private monopoly that gets deregulated and subsidized by the government - just like they say they do not want.

It is sad that "I" have to demonize those on the right ... because you MF'ers are liars and doing great damage to the people and systems of this country under false pretenses, and Trump is the king of that bait and switch when you compare what he said with what he's done.

Then you guys always complain how misunderstood you are. Give me a break.

One other thing, the safety net should be the social and economic infrastructure for everyone, not for the people that are so damaged nothing can be done

[–] Daggerboard (581) 8 years ago

To clarify, I am not a fan of Ryan, McConnell, or definitely Trump. Or the current healthcare bills. I was responding to your accusations about conservatives. None of those people/bills are conservative.

"It is sad that "I" have to demonize those on the right ... because you MF'ers are liars and doing great damage to the people and systems of this country under false pretenses, and Trump is the king of that bait and switch when you compare what he said with what he's done."

Actually, that's what the dems do. An architect of Obamacare said if congress and voters weren't so stupid, it wouldn't have passed. It had to be worded in a certain way to fool people. The left has done great damage to the people, and this country, so don't say it just comes from the right. How many years have dems claimed to be the party of minorities? How are black communities doing under the democrat's promises to take care of them? Higher unemployment, higher percentage (73%) of children born out of wedlock. Why? Because dems convince them they'll take care of them!

"One other thing, the safety net should be the social and economic infrastructure for everyone, not for the people that are so damaged nothing can be done"

I believe people are happier, healthier, more self-reliant, when they believe they are responsible for their own destiny. The more people think of govt as "daddy", the more people don't grow up, don't take initiative. I understand that's not your world view.

[–] brux (14840) 8 years ago

The Dems and Reps both breathe too ... that does not make them equal.
Your thinking is called "false equivalency".

The out of wedlock thing is going on all over the developed world, and it
is because people want to fall in love and raise families, but the stress is
so great and people's ideas are so out of touch couples cannot get along
any more. It used to be that a family could live off the income of one
worker. How do they expect people to survive ... apparently Republicans
do not.

In Europe and other developed countries the people understand they have
a right to a life, freedom and it is not just a BS word to them. Look at
Michael Moore's "Where To Invade Next" ... these ideas used to be American
and we have had them beaten and lied out of us to the point where we
have become the product.

Your beliefs about self-reliance are incredibly naive. Today if you do not
have good nutrition, good health, live in a safe place, get education ... not
to mention have decent parents and a good community, you have no chance
of being self-reliant or even knowing that is. All that BS Conservative talk
is to keep a small cruel in monopoly of owning and controlling everything,
and they have been for the last 30 years ... and virtually nothing has
improved.

That stupid description of people thinking of government as daddy has no
truth content and is meant to be insulting and demeaning. Let me tell you,
I am white, college educated profession and a home-owner in Silicon Valley
and the government did a lot more for me to get to the point where I have
paid millions in taxes than my father ever did, so even for me government
assistance and infrastucture paid back many, many times. As a kid I was
able to have a minimum wage job, drive a car, pay to go to CA Community
college and State University ... and I was only even able to that because I
had a bit of a clue as to how to survive and prosper in this world. Most kids
do not have that today

[–] Daggerboard (581) 8 years ago

"As a kid I was able to have a minimum wage job, drive a car, pay to go to CA Community
college and State University ... and I was only even able to that because I
had a bit of a clue as to how to survive and prosper in this world. Most kids
do not have that today."

Do you want them to? If so, we're on the same page. I don't expect perfect, or equal, outcomes, but there should at least be a goal to reach for.

[–] brux (14840) 8 years ago

This only happens when you live in a society that roots for you and supports you with infrastructure and investment. When we created the public school system we got one of the most literate societies in the world. Because anything that helps the general public threatens the power of the elite, they will go after it when they have enough money and political power to do that ... that is why I hate Conservatives. There may be many honest Conservatives such as yourself, but you are being deluded and lied to by elites who will do anything to keep your down while they go up kicking away the ladder. You can always focus on the failures, and there will always be failures, but net successes come from general diverse and broad investment in people ... what the hell else do we have?

[–] Daggerboard (581) 8 years ago

"but you are being deluded and lied to by elites".

I know the "elites" lie. My world view comes from life experiences, both my own and others, empirical evidence, and God's guidance. You can call me ignorant, stupid, naive, etc. all you want. It won't change what I know to be true.

[–] brux (14840) 8 years ago

I don't mean to call you names, but you are wrong.
There is nothing as dangerous as the stuff you think that is true that isn't.
It's also a character defect to assume what is true for you is so true that you should force it on others. If there is not a system that takes from the haves and gives to the haves not the haves end up with everything and in charge of everything with no representation or possibility of change. And one final thought, I don't know how many kids of truly rich and powerful people you know, but I know quite a few, and have a lot in common in terms of the lack of character, and just the things you are talking about. They are the children of rich parents who are either working or playing all the time, out of reach, out of touch, taken care of by nannies and never given enough time and security by their own parents. It's take a toll. They go to institutional schools, high class where they can do anything they want and never get disciplined or tossed out, and the learn to play games and abuse people. I read a book about the Bush family back when "W" was president and it was amazing how much trouble the first generation Bush kids got in, and the same with their kids. If there were a free market and competition most children of the privileged grow up weak and stupid. It is more just to tax progressively and build a country for everyone, and all the actual data leads to that conclusion - exept fo course the greed and power hunger of the people in charge now who make up all these myths about character that they do not follow or believe themselves really.

[–] Ldlamb (655) 8 years ago

No Brux, you are the wrong and most of your points in this last post are silly.

[–] reichen4eva (252) 5 years ago

What complete nut you are OP. I had a good time laughing though.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

as I put you on ignore, i am a nut and you spent the time to read my post, laugh at it, and the make that content free useless comment? wonder why i'm putting you on ignore?