MovieChat Forums > Manchester by the Sea (2016) Discussion > Patrick Didn't Seem to Care Much About t...

Patrick Didn't Seem to Care Much About the Death of His Father


I understand that people grieve in different ways, but I found it odd that Patrick didn't seem to suffer much from the loss of his father. We get one minor freak out scene with the freezer, but it's over and forgotten as quickly as it came. I get that the writer wanted to make the focus of the story the relationship between Patrick and Lee, but it just rang false that Patrick was practically completely unphased by the death of his father. They really needed to show him struggling with it for the character to be genuine. It seems like it was written by someone who has no experience with tragedy or loss.

"There are too many of them. Can't kill the world."

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Everybody reacts differently to tragedy/death. There is no manual called How to React to Death in 10 Easy Lessons. Don't presume that Kenneth Lonergan knows nothing about tragedy or loss. The focus of the story wasn't just on the relationship between Patrick and Lee. You seem to have understood nothing in the film. Good job.



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From a transcript of an NPR interview with Lonergan:http://www.npr.org/2016/11/30/503865472/manchester-by-the-sea-director-probes-the-drama-and-humor-of-grief

Gross is the interviewer.

1st bit:
You've written several roles for troubled teens in your work, certainly in "Margaret," which starred Anna Paquin in the troubled teen (laughter) role. And in your new film "Manchester By The Sea," Patrick, the nephew, who's 16 years old, you know, he's mourning the loss of his father. His mother - like, no one knows where his mother is because his parents separated years ago.

LONERGAN: Yeah.

GROSS: And I don't think he's willing to acknowledge the pain that he's in. And so he's very abrasive and very sarcastic and cynical. And, you know, these characters are also in a period where they're having trouble with the adults in their lives.

LONERGAN: Yeah.

2nd bit:


LONERGAN: Well, I mean, you know, I've definitely dealt with depression on and off for most of my life, for all my life as an adult. And I think that - but I don't actually think of this character so much as being depressed as being - as grieving. And unfortunately, because he's responsible for what happened to him, that does add the element of feeling guilty and being unable to forgive himself and move on in any way.And I - I don't - I do think there are things that happen to people that it's impossible to move on from. I read somewhere some very eloquent letter someone had sent. I don't even - I honestly don't remember where I read this, but it was - they made - the writer made the distinction of moving on and moving forward. And the idea of moving forward with - while carrying your sorrows with you and carrying the losses that you've suffered with you, and that I think is a much more apt and hopeful description in a way because I don't think people should expect to move on.

People don't want to move on from their feelings of loss, exactly. I mean, you know, my father passed away this year and my mother's not very well and my friend Patsy Broderick passed away over 10 years ago and I miss her all the time. And I - but you don't want to leave them behind. You don't want to get over it and feel great about it and, OK, I'm OK now.

You feel like you owe it to the people that you've lost to remember them and to carry that pain around with you in some form. You don't want it to debilitate you or cripple you as it has the main character in this film, but, you know, there's natural sorrow and there's the, you know, losing your parents and things that happen in the course of ordinary life and then there's real disasters, which is - and unfortunately for the character in this film, that's what - he suffers one of those. And I don't know how you move on from that.

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From a transcript of an NPR interview with Lonergan:http://www.npr.org/2016/11/30/503865472/manchester-by-the-sea-director-probes-the-drama-and-humor-of-grief

Gross is the interviewer.

1st bit:
You've written several roles for troubled teens in your work, certainly in "Margaret," which starred Anna Paquin in the troubled teen (laughter) role. And in your new film "Manchester By The Sea," Patrick, the nephew, who's 16 years old, you know, he's mourning the loss of his father. His mother - like, no one knows where his mother is because his parents separated years ago.

LONERGAN: Yeah.

GROSS: And I don't think he's willing to acknowledge the pain that he's in. And so he's very abrasive and very sarcastic and cynical. And, you know, these characters are also in a period where they're having trouble with the adults in their lives.

LONERGAN: Yeah.

2nd bit:


LONERGAN: Well, I mean, you know, I've definitely dealt with depression on and off for most of my life, for all my life as an adult. And I think that - but I don't actually think of this character so much as being depressed as being - as grieving. And unfortunately, because he's responsible for what happened to him, that does add the element of feeling guilty and being unable to forgive himself and move on in any way.And I - I don't - I do think there are things that happen to people that it's impossible to move on from. I read somewhere some very eloquent letter someone had sent. I don't even - I honestly don't remember where I read this, but it was - they made - the writer made the distinction of moving on and moving forward. And the idea of moving forward with - while carrying your sorrows with you and carrying the losses that you've suffered with you, and that I think is a much more apt and hopeful description in a way because I don't think people should expect to move on.

People don't want to move on from their feelings of loss, exactly. I mean, you know, my father passed away this year and my mother's not very well and my friend Patsy Broderick passed away over 10 years ago and I miss her all the time. And I - but you don't want to leave them behind. You don't want to get over it and feel great about it and, OK, I'm OK now.

You feel like you owe it to the people that you've lost to remember them and to carry that pain around with you in some form. You don't want it to debilitate you or cripple you as it has the main character in this film, but, you know, there's natural sorrow and there's the, you know, losing your parents and things that happen in the course of ordinary life and then there's real disasters, which is - and unfortunately for the character in this film, that's what - he suffers one of those. And I don't know how you move on from that.

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The film is Lee's story when it comes down to it. Mainly it is a film based on realism, however I think Patrick does cope with his Father's death a little (or more than a little) too well. You could say that it is something he's known will happen for years, but knowledge is no preparation, really.

I think part of why Patrick copes so well is that Kenneth Lonergan wanted there to be light to a film that really plumbs some dark depths. If the film had Patrick also in an incredibly dark place, I think the whole thing might be so sad and dark that as an audience, people might check out from emotionally engaging. You need warmth as well as sorrow, which I think is how this film becomes so beautiful. It articulates Lee's pain completely. And it touches on Patrick's at times, but it has him deal with life better than most would in reality.

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... it just rang false that Patrick was practically completely unphased by the death of his father. They really needed to show him struggling with it for the character to be genuine.
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Exactly! And I feel the film would have made a stronger and more resonant impact, had Patrick not been written as a little jerk that needed to be smacked. If he was more likeable, then the audience could care more, and it would have been nice if Patrick had helped his Uncle Lee whom he did love, overcome his own brooding and withdrawn grief and pain.

Don't eat the whole ones!...Those are for the guests. 🍪

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I was Patrick's age when my mom passed and I remember my Aunt told me it was okay to cry since I was very stoic about the whole thing. I actually questioned myself and my emotions because I didn't break down when she died. It was when I was at a petting zoo, with family, and saw a little boy and his mother feeding animals is when it all hit me. My mom used to take my there all the time and seeing that made me realize that she was really gone. That is how it has been for 17 years. I think about her, miss her, pissed I didn't have an adult relationship with her, but there will be something I will see, mostly involving a child and his mom that will trigger ill feelings in me.

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The thing that really bother me with Patrick grief is that he continued to sing with the band and especially that he have fun with his girlfriends like nothing happen. Your father passed away and you have sex drive like it's normal week? In other hand, he had a panic attack, this's inconsistent behavior feel not real for me. Anyway, it's great movie. Maybe the best in 2016.

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One possible factor is that Joe's family had been mentally preparing to deal with his death for several years, after Dr. Bethany gave them the bad news in the hospital, back when the wife was still around. From my own experience... I was never really all that close with my dad, but when he died only a few months after being diagnosed with cancer, it happened so fast, he wasn't hospitalized or even bed-ridden until the day he passed. You wouldn't have guessed he was sick, he was still himself. I was a blubbering wreck for a week, which surprised the hell out of me. Whereas OTH I was much, much closer with my mom, but she died after a drawn-out five year battle with Crohn's disease and dementia. She'd long since withered away to a shadow of herself. It was like she'd already been gone for a couple of years, and I never cried a single tear when she was passed. I even went back to work the day after. I ended up leaving early because I couldn't think about work, but I'm pretty sure I seemed fine on the outside to everyone. I went home and ate like I normally would, watched a movie, played a video game... Later on I did get some co-worker ribbing about being a psychopath for coming back to work way too soon... Anyway due to my relationships with each of my parents, if you had asked me before these events, I would have bet my reactions would have been the opposite. You never know how grief will hit.

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