Overall I enjoyed this film but it wasn't perfect. One thing was that while watching the movie I couldn't decide if I wanted Baby to get away and live happily ever after or get caught since there was a lot of collateral damage in the crimes he was part of. Instead of picking one side or the other the movie wanted to have it both ways. He gets caught but only serves 5 years and Deb is waiting for him when he gets out for a nice happy ending. With several law enforcement officers dying throughout, there is no way he'd be back on the street in 5 years (even if he did throw the woman her purse back and say sorry). But even if that would be the case, I wish the movie could've just taken a stand and gone one direction or the other. Straddling the line like that just felt forced.
I know what you mean, I didn't want them to ride of into the sunset as fugitives but at the same time I didn't want them to get caught, I found it to be an unsatisfying end no matter which way it went to be honest I think thats all because of the set up for the last act, though I still really enjoyed the movie
Where did the 'serves 5 years' come from? I watched last night and assumed the leaving prison scene was a daydream prompted by the post cards Debora sent him. Now that I think about it I'm wondering about the significance of so many of the cards being blank.
But having said that I'm not sure about the ending either. I favour a completely unrealistic driving off in to the sunset for a happy ending.
Thanks - I guess I missed that bit. I'm not sure we actually saw him being released though. As I remember it (which has already been proved to be of suspect quality) the screen faded to monochrome and matched the earlier memory of his mom - so we could still have been looking at a day dream.
It's possible, and I agree there was that odd tint to the scene of him being released, but for me even the suggestion he could be released after only 5 years considering the severity of the crimes he was involved in brought it down a notch. Like I said, I'm not sure what the right ending would've been but I would've preferred they pick a side (i.e. he gets away, or he gets caught. I didn't like them straddling the line with it).
I as well thought it was a daydream. The exact same scene (daydream) happened earlier in the film where I interpreted it as the life baby had in mind with Debora but it's in grayscale. In the prison he has the exact same daydream but then in color because of the postcards. But perhaps it's open for interpretation and you can make of it that he got out of prison or that it is just a daydream.
I think it's fairly obvious the end really happened. It's a set-up for the sequel, "I wanna drive West in a car I can't afford with a plan I don't have.", etc. Not sure where West is, but Dallas would be a great place for a sequel with all the highways.
The ending to Total Recall is famous for not clarifying whether Quaid really went to Mars, or was actually just experiencing an implanted memory before lapsing into a coma.
"Total Recall doesn’t say whether it’s reality or it is a dream, you know? It’s really saying there’s this reality and there’s that reality, and both exist at the same time, because you look at Total Recall there is never a preference, let’s say, taken by me or the scriptwriter, to say this is really what he dreams about and this is the truth."
“I wanted it to be that way, because I felt that it was – if you want to use a very big word – post-modern. I felt that basically I should not say ‘This is true, and this not true.’ I wanted – and we worked with Gary Goldman on that, not the original writers – [and we] worked very hard to make both consistent, and that both would be true. And I think we succeeded very well. So I think of course there is no solution. Hey, it’s both true. So I thought, two realities; that it was innovative in movie language at least, to a certain degree, that there would be two realities and there is no choice."
I don't really give a damn about what AFI or the critics think, most are full of crap.
As for ambiguous endings, here's the answer to your question. You cut corners at work, right? If you worked as a writer, what's the EASIEST way to write an ending? You got it, be a jerk and make it ambiguous. What is it, the path of least resistance is the one almost often taken or something like that? There you go.
Why is that a cop out? Not everything needs to be explained fully and can be up for interpretation to the viewer. It makes it more dynamic and interactive and everybody can interpret the way they think it's supposed to go down. Open endings can be great when done correctly and in this case it's done correctly in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure him "getting out" was meant as a daydream scene. The color grading changed to a cooler color temperature and it matched an earlier daydream scene. However, the director has said that people can interpret the ending however they like.
As for the scentencing... just because they said he would be eligible for parole in 5 years does not mean that he would get parole in 5 years. That would be heavily dependent on many factors, including his behavior while in prison.
The sentence also depends on what he was charged with and how good his lawyers are. I think the character witnesses were important in establishing that Baby himself did not kill any of those officers or innocent bystanders. It was also important that he was manipulated, blackmailed and forced into the situation. Most trials have two phases. One phase is for conviction and the second is for sentencing. During the sentencing phase, character witnesses, motivation, and personal circumstances come into play.
With a good lawyer, I could see them getting his charge reduced to voluntary manslaughter without malice aforethought, which would carry a sentence of between 3 and 11 years in the state of California. A really, really good lawyer with a cooperative client, might be able to convince the state to go for involuntary manslaughter. That would require proving that Baby was essentially blackmailed into this. "Duress" is an affirmative defense which is generally defined as "Unlawful pressure exerted upon a person to coerce that person to perform an act that he or she ordinarily would not perform." Under common law, this could absolve all crimes except murder.
None of this is guaranteed; every case is different. But, I imagine Baby's case would be highly publicized, would draw the attention of large law firms looking to make a name for themselves and his side of the story would be spread out across the 24-hour news.
Either way, I don't think the sentence is beyond the stretch of the imagination.
There was evidence "before our eyes" that he never wanted to be a part of robberies with killings involved and did what he could to avert killings once Spacey hired crazier crooks(like Foxx and Hamm) to do the work.
Baby was, in certain ways, a "hostage" of the criminals he fell in with(Spacey threatened to kill all his loved ones, and threats were made on the deaf foster father and Debora -- and when he DID try to escape the crooks, they would capture him and hold him hostage again), and there were enough mitigating circumstances(as evidenced by the parade of witnesses) to perhaps make 5 years a realistic sentence.
But the ending is "either way." Either its real or its not; either way, you feel good.
I agree with the self defense theory. He was never going to be let off the hook by either the Hamm or Foxx characters, who we know by that point in the film that they are intent on killing not only Baby but coming after the girl as well.
I'm trying to go for an engaging, funny youtube channel so, if you have the time, take a look. Hope you enjoy what you see. Thanks in advance. A review of the movie here-https://youtu.be/Qqj9zLCseHw
Find it hard to believe Doc would keep a liability like Baby on who could snap and go to the cops at any time. He made a ton of money in the ten years he kept Baby on, at some point, he would have either killed Baby or started paying him real money.
He was convicted of 20 federal crimes. 25 years was a VERY light sentence, probably due to his circumstances.
Getting parole in 5 years was gift. The escape with Debora waiting wasn't a daydream, it was his goal. He would be a model prisoner and get out in 5. It really happened.
The whole thing about heading west in a car you can't afford without a plan is an indicator about the sequel. I wanna say they'll end up in LA, but it's possible they'll just end up in St. Louis or Dallas.
I know Ansel and Lily are down to doing a sequel. Although I’m not sure Edgar Wrights is though. Although Baby never really wanted to rob banks and Debra was just too sweet to rob banks would be hard to see them turning into Bonnie and Clyde.
I came on just to discuss the ending cause it was a pretty good movie up until then. The ending seemed really contrived. We know it was done to turn it into a happy ending, but it made the movie worse. I dropped it a half-a-star for it. It could be a whole star.
If Baby and Debora just drove off into the sunset, then it would leave too many questions unanswered and Baby would just be running away from his crimes. I don't think that is too satisfactory. Or if he is caught and sent to prison for twenty five years would be too much a downer. There would be no resolution to the couple's relationship.
Instead, I could've lived with an unhappy ending where he is sentenced for twenty five years, but the judge gives him a chance in that he could get paroled in five. The director could have left it open ended for the audience to figure out what happens to the couple. We do not need to see the victims come back to testify how Baby was of good character. We already know what happened to him and what his character was like.
ETA: There would be people who would want the victim's testimony as to his character, but it's not necessary. It's better to give the audience credit for what they know about the main character and his relationship. It also leaves open enough story for a sequel.
I assumed he would get away, once his foster dad was set up at the home and Buddy was dead so he wouldn't be pursuing them and Spacey was out of the picture.
But after he got caught and convicted of 20 some crimes, he would have gotten a lot more than 25 years. Probably 40 to 50, with parole in 15 to 20 years, not 5.