MovieChat Forums > Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018) Discussion > Lawrence Kasdan

Lawrence Kasdan

posted 7 years ago by CoachGainz (453)
31 replies | jump to latest

Anybody else holding out hope that this is going to be the best Star Wars since ESB?

I mean I love Star Wars but I didn't fall head over heels in love with it until I saw ESB. I think Kasdan's writing is what brings this universe to greatness. The dialogue in ESB and ROTJ is amazing and I even saw some of that in TFA even with it being a rushed written kinda on the fly deal.

Kasdan has supposedly been working on this since before Lucas sold. It could have some of the best Star Wars moments yet.

So what they had production problems and switched directors... I bet most of the original script made it through. There were even rumors Kasdan is the reason Lord and Miller were let go as they were going too far off his script.

Anybody else on the positive spin? Thoughts?

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Oh good, I hadn't realized he was involved in this one too. Now I'm definitely looking forward to it! I also agree, TFA definitely had that Kasdan magic to it, and frankly I put TFA second behind ESB in the entire series.

It certainly would be welcome if Solo was amazing enough to rank up there too.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

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[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

I was always under the impression Lucas was unhappy with Brackett's script and that's why Kasdan was brought on to rework it. From my understanding Brackett did provide the basic structure of the story and the big events but the dialog its self primarily Han and Vader's lines were the work of Kasdan.

here's a link that sheds some light on Brackett's contribution.
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/251045/star-wars-leigh-brackett-and-the-empire-strikes-back-you-never-saw

As for Return of the Jedi again I'm under the impression that Kasdan wrote the meat of screenplay alongside Lucas. IF you have info that says otherwise please feel free to share.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

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[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

Well I would say that the dialogue especially Han's and Vader's in ESB is what makes it great. So I would give most of the credit for how ESB along with ROTJ turned to Kasdan. I think that disproves your point about Kasdan having very little impact and being a 3rd round writer for those movies.

Also, the idea to rehash a New Hope came as a direct order from Disney as they wanted a "Retro Movie" as JJ KK and even Lucas testified. JJ specifically asked Kasdan to help him write the screen play for the Force awakens and JJ himself gave all of the credit for Han's lines to Kasdan.

Regardless of anything else I see Genius in Kasdan's writing and can clearly pick-out his contributions in ESB ROTJ and TFA. That's why I have hope Solo will turn out well.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

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[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

I mean there's no doubt, Lucas is a Genius! As far as creativity and world building goes Lucas is your man. However, I think there's easily an argument made that Kasdan's screenplay greatly improves the universe and ESB ROTJ and even TFA wouldn't be the movies they are if it weren't for him. I would harshly disagree that dialogue IE the words people say in a movie can't make a movie great. How many times are direct quotes from good movies pulled?? I believe most great movies are reference directly by lines involved including classics such as Gone with the Wind, The God Father, Wizard of Oz.

My whole argument is that Solo stands a good chance of being good simply because he is involved and I personally view( and I believe the majority would agree) the episodes with his contribution to be better than the ones without. Your statement was that he didn't have a large impact on those movies but you have failed show any evidence that would support your statement.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

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[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

1. Whether the words are from book or movie it doesn't make them any better or worse and if they are good movies because of great dialogue taken from a book whats the difference?

2. Not trying to discredit anybody Star Wars would never be if it wasn't Lucas and certainly ESB wouldn't be as good without Kershner. Many talented and hardworking people had an impact on Star Wars. I'm just trying to say Kasdan's script additions also lift the movies' quality and the lines from ESB and ROTJ are what makes those movies on top of everything else great.

That's why I have hope for Han. Howard is a talented experienced director and Kasdan is an excellent screenplay writer... So there's a lot of potential.

[–] Keelai (36157) 7 years ago

I found this on wikipedia about Leigh Brackett's contribution to Empire:

"Brackett's draft, while definitely in need of a rewrite and several tweaks, holds all of the big moments we'd eventually see on screen. We still get a version of the Battle of Hoth (a much more ridiculous one), the wise words of an old Jedi Master, the excitement of zooming through a deadly asteroid field, a love triangle (a MUCH more overt one), a majestic city in the clouds, unexpected betrayals, and the climactic duel between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader that we would reenact on playgrounds for years to come."

This is the actual first draft script written by her that you can read:
http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/the-empire-strikes-back-first-draft-by-leigh-brackett-transcript/

Lucas also had input before giving the script to Kasdan. "I know." reply by Han was improvised by Ford.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

Good find!

Like I said Brackett laid the story framework but Kasdan's dialogue changes really up the quality IMO.

[–] Keelai (36157) 7 years ago

Thanks. I just found more script drafts. The 2nd-4th drafts were written by only Lucas. I skimmed through it and a lot of his dialogue made it into the movie. The 4th Revised script can be downloaded here:
http://starwars.rossiters.com/tesb_screenplays.html

The public draft is Kasdan's.

Also story ideas like Vader being Luke's father, Han in carbonite & his cliffhanger fate and the Emperor being a Sith were Lucas' creations.

It appears Lucas' contribution has been very underestimated while Kasdan's is overestimated.

I'm not beneath begging for Lucas to buy back his franchise from Disney.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

Great find again!

So just skimming through this the public draft (I'm assuming the production draft) is miles ahead of what Brackett had.

The only problem is we don't have any indication who wrote what... All we do know is what Brackett turned into Lucas... It's kinda convoluted who did what after that. But I guess that's how this process works probably lots of notes back and fourth input from Lucas Kasdan Kershner if not more people maybe even Marsha Lucas.

After seeing the prequels I have a hard time believing the Fourth Draft is primarily Lucas's work.

Fourth Draft and Public Draft are pretty much the same for the most part.

I don't know I find it hard to believe JJ asked for Kasdan's help on TFA(especially Han Solo's dialogue) if it wasn't publicly if not business insider info that Kasdan was heavily influential in ESB and ROTJ.

[–] Keelai (36157) 7 years ago

Kasdan is a writer.
Lucas is a visionary and innovator. And writer, director and art director.

I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but it basically copied Star Wars. Solo appears to be just another caper story. No originality. Visually, both films offer nothing new.

All six movies under Lucas were creative, original, innovative and experimental. I agree that the prequels - especially Phantom - have problems, but there are plenty of more positives than negatives. The main problems appear to be with directing (bad acting) and editing, not the script (its novel received rave reviews and was excellent - even Jarjar was fine).

It's difficult for creative people to step back from their work and be objective. Lucas' work was great when others gave him feedback - if he chose to accept it - or corroborated with him.

[–] AP (5295) 7 years ago

Kasdan was also a co-writer on The Last Jedi and Force Awakens. So there's that.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

That's incorrect. Kasdan did not assist with The Last Jedi and was not given any writing credit. The only credit for writing for TLJ was Rian Johnson and George Lucas for use of created characters. But nice try.

Also you can see Kasdan's mark on TFA there is some great character development and humorous lines in TFA.

[–] AP (5295) 7 years ago

I stand corrected. He wasn’t on TLJ. I still stand by TFA sucking ass though.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

Care to share why you feel that way about TFA? Or why specifically Kasdan is to blame?

[–] AP (5295) 7 years ago

I never blamed Kasden alone as I mentioned he was a co-writer.

As to why I think TFA sucks, it’s because it is a rehash of ANH but with all the charisma of the prequels. They reverse much of what occured in ROTJ with little explanation, Han is treated with complete disrespect, the villains were untimidating, the new heroes were shallow with no real motivation, there were subplots that went nowhere, the action sequences were forgetful (aside from “traitor!”), and the few unique concepts they had were barely explored.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

Okay, cool cool. But your comment insinuated that having Kasdan on board wouldn't help because he was also involved in TLJ(which he wasn't) and TFA.

1. Han is treated with disrespect
-I disagree I thought his character was well used with great dialogue (That's not how the force works! It's true, the force, the Jedi, all of it) and I along with many others thought it was the best we have seen from him since ESB. Personally found Han to be much better handled than they even did with ROTJ

2. Villains were unintimidating.
- Again disagree. I found Kylo, Hux, and Snoke to be very interesting new characters worth exploring. I thought Kylo was a great complex villain with a past we wanted to know more about, his relationship with Snoke and Hux, and why he speaks with Vader's mask, the spin of a strong light side character trying so hard to turn to the Dark.

3. Heroes were shallow with no motivation.
- I think it's perfectly clear Fin's motivation is to get away from the first order and will do anything to accomplish that and that's how he gets started on this adventure. Poe's motivation is to get BB-8 so they can get the map that leads to Luke all while fighter the first order as part of the resistance. Rey is brought along on this similar to how Luke was... it found her. Journey is to find out who she is and what her purpose is a theme everybody shares in life.

4. Subplots that went nowhere.
-And these are?

5. Action sequences were forgetful
- Personally I don't think you could say Rey and Kylo's duel is forgetful. The Falcon scene on Jakku is one of the best action scenes to date with ground breaking effects. The scene made the Falcon feel like a real thing, a spaceship interacting with it's environment pretty cool stuff that I don't believe has been done in live action.

Everything is subjective and if you don't like TFA that's fine I won't try to change your mind. However, I think strong arguments can be made for it's qualities and Kasdan's positive contribution.

[–] Keelai (36157) 7 years ago

I have very little hope for Disney Star Wars even with Kasdan. He was a co-writer of Empire Strikes Back and the story was still from Lucas.

I wasn't too impressed by the trailer. This plot appears unimaginative - a mindless action/caper flick. Lucas used to say he wanted SW to be more than just about spaceships. I guess Disney doesn't feel the same way.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

I agree the trailer failed to impress me as well... but i'm still holding out hope. Word has it they rushed frantically to get a trailer ready for the Superbowl. I'm hoping this was just the best they could throw together due to all the reboots and extended post production.

I remember the very first trailer for TFA gave me a terrible feeling... but then a well organized trailer in post production blew me away... So here's hoping it happens again.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 7 years ago

Kasdan is so overrated, there’s not one film of his, written by or directed by I like. Other than his screenplay efforts from 80-83 his filmography is just average.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Yes. Look at his films prior to TFA. He made 3 films in 20 years all of them massive flops:

Mumford
Dreamcatcher
Darling Companion

His career was pretty much dead and over and they brought him in (IMO) solely so they could boast about the Empire Strikes Back connection. Aside from a few dialogue lines I suspect he had zero input. This is how JJ operates, he's a terrible film maker but an excellent salesman. They did the same thing with talk of 'practical' effects. They used less practical effects than TPM and stuffed TFA full of shitty CGI (the Tentacle thingies, orange discount Yoda, Snoke) but they TOLD everyone how they were going back to good old physical effects and the amount of times I heard people repeat the lie told me a lot of people bought it.

Billy Dee Williams and Denis Lawson are about to get their mouths stuffed with gold as all JJA knows how to do is take advantage of the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia and there's no way in hell he'd make IX without the safety line of an OT connection.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 7 years ago

@Billy Dee Williams and Denis Lawson "Just say no!"

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Well apparently Denis Lawson said he wan't interested (good on him) and BDW wasn't even asked! But I'd be amazed if they didn't shoe horn one of them into the 2nd act as a 'surprise' entrance.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Of course I HOPE it'll be the best Star Wars movie ever, the best movie ever made! But then I always hope that about any movie I'm looking forward to.

There's a huge gulf between hope and expectation.

[–] Duck6 (425) 7 years ago

Didn't he write TFA? I thought that movie was terrible. They got him, and the artwork from the original movie, and they used real sets and blablabla but it all ended up just being marketing. The movie was still a Disneyfied theme park ride with more yelling than acting.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

He did help write TFA. I thought it was the best star wars since ROTJ maybe even ESB but hey just me.

[–] Duck6 (425) 7 years ago

It was the best SW since the originals but that isn't saying anything at all.

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

I don't know I thought it did a decent job of capturing the magic. I also thought Rogue one had a great 3rd act.

The last Jedi tho... my gosh it was sooooo bad. I just don't know if I can handle it.