Irritating things about 'Grace and Frankie" - Grace and Frankie (2015) Discussion

[–] mackay254 10 years ago

Show me what Brooklyn Decker will look like when approaching 80 and you might have a point. I have my doubts.

I don't know what JF would look like if she had left everything to nature, but her face still moves and she hasn't got a waxy, stretched appearance. More power to her elbow, say I. She's taken care of herself, spent a little (all things are comparative) on a bit of nip and tuck and still looks fantastic.

She was never noted for her beauty compared to other actresses.

I suggest you google Jane Fonda and look at the images from the 60's until today. If you'd knock her back, based on looks, you're blind! She was dynamite!

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] mackay254 10 years ago

Her personality and intelligence had a lot to do with her appeal.

That is what appeals to most men, at the end of the day. Hey, we can all be deflected by a pretty face (men and women) - temporarily. But, looks, although a bonus, are not enough to keep you interested.<----That's just my experience/opinion.

By whom was Jane Fonda 'not considered a bombshell'? She was drop dead gorgeous! <----just my opinion again. Was she not 'Barbie Doll' enough? <--- my loaded opinion, based on a disgust of vacuous, boob-jobbed, dyed-blond, unrealistic, plastic, hollow, brainless, reality TV fodder.

I'll take a deep breath!

Jane Fonda is knocking on 80. Her looks are incredible, for her age. She was, and is, a beautiful woman. Added to which, as you have already recognised, she is not just decorative - she has 'personality and intelligence'.

That's the Holy Grail!

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] mackay254 10 years ago

But, the repeated praise in this series is understandable, considering how good she looks. The 'self-praise', is the narcissism of the character Grace, not Jane Fonda.

Angelina Jolie is hardly the poster girl for 'natural beauty'!Put Jolie and Fonda side by side in their prime and I know who I'd choose. But, beauty is subjective.

I nearly opened up another tab; because I had forgotten the name of the actress in your original post! Then, I thought "You know what, that says it all - unmemorable!"

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[–] truetexian 10 years ago

"Was she not 'Barbie Doll' enough?" She was the epitome of 'Barbie' in the early to mid-sixties...look at her in "Barefoot In The Park"...that was 'Barbie'...proportionally the perfect body and features.

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

No, she was never up there with Marilyn Monroe, Elizabeth Taylor, Audrey Hepburn, Ursula Andress.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] truetexian 10 years ago

Hmm, I'm confused. My post didn't make any comparison of her to the likes of MM, ET, AH, or UA.

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

I seem to be having trouble communicating! I will try again -

In my opinion, Jane Fonda was not beautiful enough in her prime, compared to the legendary beauties of the time, to justify the emphasis in this series on her looks, via constant references. Full marks, however, for her extremely youthful appearance relative to her real age, although that has not been mentioned in the series.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] noveltylibrary 10 years ago

she was also bulimic for a long while, including during her fitness video years. just saying.

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

What I meant was, her beauty is referenced repeatedly in the series, but no one has mentioned how much younger she looks compared to her age, an accomplishment which is truly unusual. Her age has been stated several times as 70, not in her 70s; she is playing a 70 year old woman. To have Grace's age the same as JF's real age, 77, would truly stretch the audience's credibility. Not a lot of people could relate to the romantic adventures of a 77 year old, in my opinion.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] truetexian 10 years ago

Perhaps the only trouble you have in communicating is listening. I didn't argue any of your original points. My input so far has only been in reference to what member: mackay had to say about her not being 'Barbie doll' enough.
To me, especially during the era in which JF did "Barefoot In The Park" she bore a striking resemblance to the ideal of 'Barbie'. Her figure was incredible and although maybe not to your liking enough, her face was soft and beautiful, much like 'Barbie's'.
I agree, she was not like the other beauties you mentioned, but then that's the glorious thing about variety. I was a huge fan of ET's, but if we were to just compare body to body, then I would imagine JF would win by a landslide if a poll were to be taken (mainly due to her height and proportions).

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[–] cookiela2001 10 years ago

"No, she was never up there with Marilyn Monroe, Elizabeth Taylor, Audrey Hepburn, Ursula Andress."

Those first 3 women are not from Fonda's generation, so we can't really compare her to them...they were never in the same running.

Jane Fonda was a fashion model before she turned to acting. (Actually, her insecurity about her looks gave her a serious eating disorder for decades...so ironically, she'd have agreed with you.)

However, there's no doubt she was, and is, considered one of her generation's best looking women.

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[–] deborahkerr1992 9 years ago

Yes she was. Those ladies were from a different era and they embobident the sexy look that was in style during their primary years in Hollywood. However by the time Fonda came along, many women were going the thin route and that was considered sexy. Jane Fonda back then as onside red a bombshell sex symbol. She was Barbarella wasn't she. All of this was way enforce my time but I know my classics and all of the actors.

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[–] nesdon-2 10 years ago

Nip and tuck is a horrible euphemism. These are serous surgeries often with serious side effects. I love these actresses and yet can't bear to watch this show because all I can feel is the pain of the facial mutilation the have put themselves through on the altar of youth and sex appeal as the only thing really valued in women. Breaks my heart, and all of you who praise it just make it more de riguer for women in hollywood to undergo this torture, and worse, leaving those not able to afford it (the 99%) feeling all the more worthless. Crones are a great asset to a culture, and here we are throwing them all away. tsk tsk tsk!

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

The thread topic is things that viewers find irritating in Grace and Frankie. I have stated my complaint which (obviously) I think is legitimate. I am not going to justify it - that is my reaction to the writing in the series. I do see some clear overlaps between Grace the character and Jane Fonda the actress and executive producer of this series, and I do not think, apart from a few instances, eg, the ice cream, these similarities are meant to be treated as ironic or comedic.

For the most part, Grace is a serious and sane character and her situation should not be diminished by an actor's narcissistic need to appear perfect, when in real life, it would not be the case, eg, waking up in the morning, or the days following the devastating news that her husband has betrayed her and is leaving her.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] zooymtoo 10 years ago

This is kind of a silly thread.
First of all..please goggle Jane Fonda images. You can throw in young if you want. Jane Fonda was considered a great beauty especially when she was young. She even went through her sex kitten stage in the 60's which you definitely need to check out.
As far as comparison with Marilyn Monroe or Elizabeth Taylor...MM was mostly considered to be a sex symbol rather than an actress (as were Ursula Address and Raquel Welch). Elizabeth Taylor was considered a rare beauty but I don't think a lot of men found her that sexy (at least the ones I've talked to).
Jane Fonda rejected all that stereotyping in the 70's and plained down a bit in wanting to be taken more seriously as an actress. She cut her hair and changed her style in trying to redefine herself but was still considered pretty hot.
Frankly it's really silly to compare iconic images to real actresses anyway. Or real people.

Now..as far as her character...she is not an air brushed movie star in the series although she is pretty high in the social status. But still..they proclaim her a great beauty in the real world...out of the limelight..and she would most certainly be that at even 20 years younger. But at 70 (really 77) she's a rare jewel. And it's easy to imagine that her character was always a step ahead of everyone around her in the looks department..

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Ok friends, I take your point. You all think that JF's putative gorgeousness merits the very frequent recognition it gets on this show. But we live in a diverse world, and I do not share this opinion, and I have also heard this view expressed on another forum.

Can we move on, please, to other things we think could be improved in the writing, casting and acting in this?

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] debbystardust 10 years ago

I am bothered by the complaints about Jane Fonda's looks.

I think Fonda's beauty, in her heyday, WAS comparable to Elizabeth Taylor or Marilyn Monroe. In Barbarella, a supermodel looks mousy next to her. Fonda made sleazy French filmmakers hot and bothered and they begged to work with her. She doesn't have to prove anything.

The real problem, and I assume here you might be male, is the anger at a woman feeling confident in her beauty, instead of waiting for men to rate her as beautiful. But maybe the show wants to stress that Robert's sexual rejection of his wife was due to his homosexuality, not because she was not beautiful.

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

OP here, and actually I'm female and I am much more of a Jane/Grace than a Frankie; ie, a girly-girl who enjoys fashion and makeup and makes the effort to stay slim. But it's not my only or main focus in life! I hope when I am within a couple of decades of JF's age and onward, my claim to fame won't be how young I look compared to my peers, or even how good I look.

I think that if the character Grace were confident in her beauty, she wouldn't need to appear immaculately and elaborately coiffed and fully made up in every single scene. A mature woman who is secure in herself and in the world doesn't even want to appear younger than her real age, because it's an acknowledgement that she is not desirable as she is. Self-worth should come from achievements and strong personal r'ships, not the approbation of others based on one's looks.

In the elevator episode, it showed how Grace and Robert had grown apart because of her intense focus on her work.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] truetexian 10 years ago

Quick, I partly understand where you're coming from and the points you've been trying to make. However, the great thing about life is that none of us get to be the single judge of what or how someone else acts or focuses on.
And variety is better than monotony. Since you state that you're not within a couple of decades of JF's age at this point, I don't think you're qualified yet to weigh in on the subject. When you do reach her age, you might just be surprised at how you feel about the subject.
To me, JF hasn't been out promoting herself as the standard for beauty and excellence. She has however promoted healthy exercise, diet, and exemplified a positive self-image.
Now Grace, the character, may have aging issues and lack confidence in her beauty.

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

No, Tex, if, at the age of 77, I am devoting a large amount of my time, energy and money to the goal of looking younger than my remaining peers, or even to be considered sexually and romantically desirable, I am certain I will feel my life has been a big failure. I really think this series sends a bad message on a number of levels and a lot of it is due to JF's obvious efforts to retain her beauty and the appearance of relative youth. Imagine if Grace had been portrayed by Judi Dench or Helen Mirren, or a younger Bea Arthur or Betty White..?

She has however promoted healthy exercise, diet, and exemplified a positive self-image.

That was in the 80s. Later it became known she was bulimic and a chainsmoker. I think now she is better known for having turned back time via wonderful plastic surgery.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] segsig 10 years ago

Why on earth would anyone not want to be sexually and romantically desirable at 77?

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

What an insulting post. Aren't you capable of making your point without launching a (very lame) personal attack? Why does this work you up so? Because I don't share your high opinion of Jane Fonda's looks or massive efforts to retain her youthful appearance? I have nothing against her - she's taking all the risks and paying for all the costs. However, she hasn't garnered my respect or admiration for these efforts. As it happens, I don't match your physical description at all. But that is not the point. At 77, I imagine I will be concerned with my bucket list, hanging on to my health, treasuring my remaining r'ships and the legacy I will be leaving the world. Not blowing people away with my amazing appearance due the skill of my plastic surgeon, and advertising my insecurity and lack of self-acceptance.

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Hi Ruben. This is mystifying to me. Of course it's a value judgement. What's wrong with that? We all make choices. We don't live in a world where every choice is equally good and equally valid, chocolate or vanilla. I do make judgements on what I consider poor choices others have made. I recognise that we - you and I, at least - live in a free country where people are free to choose what suits them provided it doesn't contravene the laws of the land. But if I don't respect people who have chosen to focus inordinate attention on a frivolous goal at almost 80 years of age, that is my right.

And as to JF not needing my approval - this series, of which she is an executive producer, does indeed depend on the good opinion of viewers like me. Here on the IMDB forum I am offering feedback to her and the other producers. I actually like the character Grace as portrayed by JF. She brings an intelligence and humour to the role. She is clearly a naturally slim and very attractive woman. But it is jarring to me to see this character coiffed and made up as if for a red carpet appearance in every single scene including in her pajamas. And to me the frequent references to her appearance have become rather tedious.

(You're welcome, producers.) End of...

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] truetexian 10 years ago

This could be an exhaustive discussion if not for the importance of what I think you're actually saying. And, you can think of JF however you wish, but she's but one of many examples of women who, along with maintaining their appearance and health naturally, can afford to have a little something extra done cosmetically. I can't personally see where she's insisted that everyone make the same choices as she has though.
Does society, perhaps especially American society, have a problem with aging? Yes, I think a majority might agree. Is there far more pressure placed on women in society to look their best? Yes again. I think a discussion on the insistence of maintaining a false sense of glamor and youthfulness beyond one's years is valid. Perhaps only on how sometimes it stigmatizes the old and the disadvantaged.
But back to JF and the character of Grace. I definitely get your point about Grace, but I don't think it's accurate to say nor feel the same about JF the person. Grace has been written the way she is in part to show contrast to Frankie who is also a woman of a certain age but who hasn't lived a life concerned with the superficial. Grace is vain, a bit shallow, and self-absorbed. That's on purpose.
I don't want to spoil anything for you if you haven't completed watching this season yet, but there's a dream-sequence in which JF is filmed in very little makeup in nothing but a hospital gown appearing believably every bit her actual age. If JF was only concerned about her looks, than I doubt she would have agreed to it. Did you see her in that dreadful movie "Georgia Rule"? Her part was far from glamorous and she appeared once again in very little and realistic makeup for that role.
Perhaps you simply have an axe to grind concerning JF as many ill informed, narrow-minded, unforgiving people do. I certainly don't mean to imply that you are one of them though. But, again I do think I get your point on the detrimental effects of the emphasis on false youthfulness. However, I think it unfair to cite JF as an example of such.

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[–] deborahkerr1992 9 years ago

Preach! I think some men hate to see wome having confidence and enjoying their lives despite lack of male approval or not looking they way men claim they want women to look. It makes these men feel irrelevant and therefore powerless suddenly their opinion doesn't hold water.

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[–] Quicksilver1900 9 years ago

If you're talking about me - you're barking up the wrong tree. I am female and am all about women having confidence and enjoying their lives irrespective of anyone's approval.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Fruitbatt 10 years ago

Brooklyn decker isn't that good looking facially. It's the body that made her a model. Mainly her boobs. Think about it

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[–] mmathur5689 10 years ago

Jane Fonda is and was quite attractive. Not just her looks but she exhibited an aura of sophistication and "grace." Plus she is talented as an actress and has had a varied career with comedy, drama, sci-fi and thriller.

MathurMarquee.Blogspot.com Facebook.com/MathurMarquee

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