MovieChat Forums > Grace and Frankie (2015) Discussion > I won't say the show is awful, but....

I won't say the show is awful, but....

posted 10 years ago by mainecoon1995
54 replies | jump to latest

Please, this is just my opinion. I am in my 50s, happily married. Just MY opinion, so please, politely phrased criticism, don't start telling me I am a bitch, or narrow minded, etc. please

I have watched three episodes. I like almost all the actors and actresses, never was a Jane Fonda fan, but she is pretty and talented. Nice to see older actors and actresses like Michael Gross, Craig T Nelson, etc, acting.

I really kind of cringe when I watch this. To hear people who are well educated, refined (characters and actors) drop the "f" word, to me, is poor writing. The shock value wore off a long time ago. Don't need the lewd or the profane. Make the show intelligent. Do you hear your grandparents or parents saying what these characters do? Do I need jokes about heterosexual or homosexual sex being a good portion of the dialog? Do I need to see men kissing men over and over? What happened to leaving something to the imagination? I am not a "homophobe", implying I am AFRAID of homosexuality. I just am getting tired of it being shoved in my face and demanding I like it and accept it in any form parlayed to me. And if I don't, something is wrong with ME.

I feel like our morals and sense of values become more and more rejected. I'm sorry, I know I can change the channel, so to speak. And I watched 3 episodes so that I gave it a fair chance. I just find it a distasteful show. I think the fine actors and actresses on this show deserve better vehicles to showcase their talents. They are the only thing that is keeping this new program from being ridiculous.

[–] onevestalfan 10 years ago

If that makes you uncomfortable, then it's a good thing you quit watching before they get to all the vagina talk! If you can't handle the super tame 2 male/male kisses in the first 3 episodes, then there is some sort of homophobia going on(even just the tiniest bit). You sound like you've lived a very tame Hallmark movie loving kind of life. Nobody was throwing anything in your face. There was genuine affection between a couple, nothing gross or explicit.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] truetexian 10 years ago

I agree with you about the premise of the show being more about the two women, the diversity of their respective personalities and how, because of the actions of their husbands, they've been thrust together into a situation in which they both would obviously have avoided in the past.
Furthermore you are right, it is entitled Grace & Frankie, not Robert & Sol.
Like you, I've always been a fan of JF's & LT's and not so much MS's & SW's. Like you, I also have always felt that sexuality (gay, straight, bi) is a private matter.
May I suggest to you that what looks like "gay propaganda" is simply the result of lazy, uninspired writing which relies more often than not on the "go-to laugh" of the common stereotype. I assure you, most gay people don't have a "lifestyle" much more different than your own. And gay or straight, not all people are as preoccupied with sex as most on TV appear to be. But, the writers are attempting to make the point that just because someone reaches a certain age, they don't necessarily lose their desire to have sex and to be with the one they love the most.
The Robert & Sol scenes make me cringe at times too, but for far more different reasons than yours I suspect.
Overall however, I applaud the actor's and writer's attempts at shedding light on infidelity, acceptance, ageism, sexuality, tolerance, and more.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mainecoon1995 10 years ago

Ruby,

I never said I was for or against homosexuality. My point was it is shoved in our faces more and more. I have gay friends, I work with wonderful co-workers who also happen to be gay. It is the oversaturation that I was referring to in my post. I was not meaning to hurt anyone or disparage anyone. It is not a gay issue or straight issue.

I guess, in a roundabout way, is what happened to wholesome programs? Why is it "cool", "progressive", "groundbreaking", etc, to have a show that is basically not about broken marriages and moving on, but also about sex. The "f" word like it is something that should be the norm? What happened to restraint?

I am not a prude. My mentioning I was a nurse was in response to being told that I was basically naive and non-accepting. I was saying I was an ER nurse to just make a point that I know and have seen way more than the person realized. Not regarding gays or straights, but just in general. I have seen hamsters and vibrators up regions with married couples, not just singles of any sexual orientation. I have seen penile rings that are stuck and people have to have emergency surgery. I have seen people that have blown their brains out. Incest. Rape. Child abuse. Elder abuse. Was trying to point out that I am not easily shocked.

We are becoming a desensitized nation. We are at the point where anything goes. I am not trying to disrespect anyone. As I stated, this is just my opinion.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] SpikeHat 9 years ago

This is funny: "hetero lifestyle shoved in our face since time began." Because...that's how life begins. But enough with the history lesson.
And...the "black" word replacement game, pleeeez. Kinda disrespectful.

I like blowup dolls, but I don't care to share my sexual adventures. NTM one's sexlife isn't shared in polite society. Roughly 6% of population is gay, but gays get LOTS OF coverage in media (like G&F) where it seems every other character is gay! Don't hate me cuz I'm hetero.

[–] oraphin_bo_v 10 years ago

Do you also complain when you watch something with a love scene between straight couple in it? If you don't then you're probably the same with the racist who'd say 'but I have a black friend...'

It's not being shove in your face. It's a show with gay couple, so yeah it's normal to have some kisses between gay people in it. Most shows/movies have kissing scenes. Do you complain about seeing straight people kissing shoving down your throat as well?

[–] AprilValen 9 years ago

First of all, this isn't shown during prime time network TV, so you can expect the language to be looser than on those shows. Secondly, if you don't want to watch a show about gay characters, maybe choosing one with the premise of two men divorcing their wives for each other and how the wives deal with it might just not be the best choice for you.

There have been no graphic sex scenes, gay or straight. Did you cringe when Grace kissed Guy? I don't see any difference between that and when Sol kissed Robert.

And FYI, despite the fact that "phobia" is part of the word "homophobia" it does not simply mean a fear of homosexuality. It means a dislike of it, and the feeling that it shouldn't be portrayed on TV or in the movies or be made noticeable by straight people. When you preface a comment by saying "I don't have anything against homosexuals but..." That sort of proves you do.

It ain't the Ganges, but you go with what you got." ~ Ken Talley, "The Fifth of July"

[–] Quicksilver1900 9 years ago

. I have seen hamsters and vibrators up regions with married couples, not just singles of any sexual orientation.

Live hamsters?

[–] northernlad 10 years ago

Homophobia means not liking homosexuals. You clearly don't like them, so yeah, you're homophobic. Stop being ignorant and trying to take that word so literally. Everyone knows what the literal translation means and just because you aren't afraid of it doesn't mean you aren't a homophobe.

It's legal now...marry me!

[–] AprilValen 9 years ago

This!

It ain't the Ganges, but you go with what you got." ~ Ken Talley, "The Fifth of July"

[–] truetexian 10 years ago

By some of the things you've said, I doubt we share similar opinions on a majority of issues but I certainly recognize your right to an opinion and support your freedom to express yourself.

Oddly, you've mentioned things about the show that I agree with though. I've admired and appreciated each of the principal actors prior work and careers and yet, like yourself, I have found the writing of this show to be less than intelligent at times and pandering to stereotype on more than a few occasions. Still all in all however I applaud the show's premise.

I would simply say to you that if seeing two people of the same gender embrace and kiss one another offends your sensibilities than this is obviously not a good choice of programming for you. I would have to ask you, given the premise of the show, why you would even think it would be in the first place.

I don't perceive you to be a "bitch", but (forgive me) you do seem to be a bit "narrow-minded". And although perhaps not being "AFRAID" of homosexuality, your post does make you seem to be afraid of sexuality in general. The sad fact of comedy (and entertainment as a whole) these days is the lack of subtlety and nuance and THAT might be what your post really tries to speak to the most....if so, on that we definitely are in agreement.

[–] Deeana 10 years ago

Just another person who pretends that they're okay with same sex couples, but in reality they don't accept it at all.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] onevestalfan 10 years ago

The sad thing is many people don't even realize they're being intolerant and judgmental.

I could not agree with you more. People claim to be ok with homosexuality, but two little chaste kisses between two men and it is being "thrown in your face". Heterosexuality is "thrown in your face" constantly and people are ok with that. Just saying. If you claim to be ok with homosexuality then you cannot complain that it is being "thrown in your face". Especially in this show, where there is barely anything happening.

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing." -Ron Swanson

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Island_Tropics 10 years ago

You know what bothers me that they pushed in our faces with this show? The flesh slapping sounds that Sol makes every time he eats on screen!!
UGH!! I have to fast forward through any scene with Sol and food. It's just awful!! I literally cringe hearing those God awful, disgusting sounds.

Why is it so difficult for some to understand that "casted" is NOT a word. It's just CAST.

[–] AdamtheGerberBaby 10 years ago

I'm bothered that people press play after reading the premise, and then whine about something being "shoved in their face". No. It wasn't. YOU made the decision to watch. Take some *beep* responsibility. Oops, sorry. I forgot you also dislike the kind of language real people actually use. I guess that's being shove din your face too.

By the way...you can take every "shoved in our faces" comment and call it what you REALLY mean. "Stop acting like its normal" Because that's what you're ACTUALLY saying but don't have the guts to.

-----I know the answer blowin in the wind. I also know what it sounds like when doves cry. I rule!

[–] jenna198402 10 years ago

You said exactly what I was thinking, if you have a problem with 2 men kissing but no problem with a man and woman, then yes, you do have a bit of intolerance going on. And no, you're not homophobic, no one is. No one is scared of gay people, they are just bigots. Saying you have gay friends so obviously you have no problem with gay people is like the people who say "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." Doesn't mean you're not still saying some very intolerant stuff. And I have worked in healthcare since I was 18, I have still known racist and "homophobic" CNA's, LPN's, RN's, NP's, PA's, and MD's. You can't discriminate on the job, but it doesn't mean that a title makes someone immune to bigotry.

[–] cjmarbutt 10 years ago

If profanity or sex talk offends you I can only guess you never followed Tomlin during her younger years doing stand up.

[–] Quicksilver1900 10 years ago

Want to try that in English?

"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse."

[–] cjmarbutt 10 years ago

The curse of Swype. Better now.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] AprilValen 9 years ago

Are you comfortable seeing two people of the opposite sex kissing? If you are, then you shouldn't be uncomfortable seeing two people of the same sex kissing. That isn't embracing it, that is just accepting it.

Look at it this way, for years, gay people had to watch heterosexual kissing on TV whether they supported it or not.

It ain't the Ganges, but you go with what you got." ~ Ken Talley, "The Fifth of July"

[–] Eva_Marrie 9 years ago

This is a really fascinating discussion.

Something no one's mentioned so far is that 99% of the 'heterosexuality shoved in your face' seen on American TV is intended for the male gaze only. And you're lucky if it's not pornified and misogynistic as hell, like it is on cable TV in the past decade or so. This kind of mainstream TV sexual contact leaves women cold at best and disgusted at worst.

So traditionally, sexuality on TV has never catered to the majority of the population = straight women + gay people. It's intended to please only the top dogs of the social hierarchy: those lucky straight men.

So I feel like you can't really make that parallel of gay people having to put up with watching straight sexuality on TV with straight people doing the same in reverse, because it only makes a difference to straight male viewers that are used to being catered to.

[–] AprilValen 9 years ago

I disagree that the sexuality portrayed on TV is mainly for men. That would mean that the target audience of soap operas, night time dramas that portray romances and channels dedicated to issues movies like Lifetime are male. Do you really think the majority of those who watch The Good Wife, Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, Nashville, or Empire are men?

Sure, men are at the top of society in general, but TV execs realize that the female demographic spends money so they do program with them in mind.

I'm not terribly interested in heterosexual romance stories as the only subject of TV shows, but you can't say their portrayal isn't the norm.

I would agree that het porn is targeted toward men.

It ain't the Ganges, but you go with what you got." ~ Ken Talley, "The Fifth of July"

[–] Eva_Marrie 9 years ago

I didn't mean that there aren't shows with a female audience in mind in theory. However, the sexual content on them is still disappointingly standard issue (of the wham-bam kind and with unequal objectification). There are some scenes that are marginally better than others, e.g. the wedding night scenes in Outlander, but still nowhere near good enough as far as female taste is concerned.

Tell me if you've ever seen something as female friendly as this on American TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9MY3SPyeGE

[–] Mehki_Girl 9 years ago

People are complicated.

The OP seems like a worldly woman who knows exactly how the world turns. That doesn't mean she wants it visited upon her when she's watching TV. Because someone doesn't want to see people having sex, doesn't make them a prude or phobic against gay or straight people. I personally have never liked watching people having sex in the middle of movies. It's always has been an ick factor for me, especially if it is gratious (and I'm talking about straight sex here).

Therefore, I'm not suprised of my reaction to gay sex is pretty much the same. And I watch porn, but I watch porn when I feel like watching porn. Somehow when I'm watching a regular movie, I just don't feel like watching people trading bodily fluids. I also don't necessarily want to hear old people dropping F bombs either. And guess what, I cuss like a sailor. There are some things I want to see and hear and there are others I don't when I want to be entertained. I've seen great movies, with great characters gay and straight, cussing, violence etc. where the writing and acting were great, there was a reason for whatever was taking place, the directing was fantastic, and so was the writing - no problem. I've also watched movies where gay characters are the main characters because they looked like good movies.

It's like looking at a painting - I don't know art, but I know what I like.

So, if I'm watching something and the action feels forced - be it straight sex, gay sex, cussing, volience, little kids saying something shocking, old people saying something shocking and its poorly done - well it just sucks.

The funniest line in this series (I'm only on Espisode 3), was Lilly Tomlinson's character saying, I must have an entire beach in my vagina - now THAT was funny as hell.

To each his own - leave the OP alone.

What's naive is not understanding how complex people are. I may not want to see gay (or straight for that matter) people having sex, but I will damn well defend their right to have it, get married, have children and have full rights in this country just like everyone else.

People are complicated.

http://www.auplod.com/u/dalpuo430da.png

[–] zooymtoo 9 years ago

Excellent post @Mehki_Girl.
You are the only one that seems to get we have become a nation of selective intolerance. We haven't abolished it. We've just simply redirected it toward what's popularly acceptable and what's popularly unacceptable. We demand to control how someone must feel as if we should control everyone around us to think exactly as we do.
If the OP had been hateful or mean spirited I would get so many ready with their verbal slapping and their accusations. But it seemed a genuine attempt to describe how they felt about something.
That's not allowed if it's not the right feelings.

I kind of agree with Mehki_Girl about a lot of the sex portrayed these days...sometimes it's this strange awkward pandering to some kind of quota of PC or just plain gratuity and they seem to just be doing it because they can..Straight..gay..it doesn't matter.

I also, by the way, have seen my share of porno, lived a lifestyle anything but prim and proper (and experimented with alternate lifestyles including other women)and have also sworn like a sailor....so I'm anything but sheltered or a prude.
But for me there's a small percentage of film sex that rates erotica (straight I'm talking) and is anything but me drumming my fingers waiting for it to be over.
As far as gay sex...it doesn't bother me nor does it excite me. I have a feeling most people are going to be drawn to that which they most relate to...and there's nothing wrong with that. Yet people will tell you that there is. If you're straight, of course.

I'm not bothered by the gayness in this show except for the fact that it just seems campy to me. I'm not convinced for one minute that Sheen and Waterson are doing anything but having a good time in their golden years. They don't seem really gay to me at all. I do watch it for the actors but all in all it doesn't seem very well written for their caliber of talent. But that's just me and my opinion.

In the meantime I will always stood up for anyone I believe is oppressed and right now it seems to be anyone that isn't PC in their feelings or has any sort of faith that isn't Muslim.
For those people it seems fair game to bash away.