MovieChat Forums > Parallels (2015) Discussion > Flawed logic/premise?

Flawed logic/premise?


I am already confusing myself just trying to articulate this question. I may be wrong about this so please speak up if I missed something but it seems like the premise of this show is impossible.

It is established in the show that the building exists on every version of Earth. The asian character suggests that every possible version of Earth potentially exists so there would be many worlds (billions and billions and billions and billions) that are different only because of the most minute variation ("One less mosquito"). Just like in Sliders, some worlds would be historical tangents like if Hitler had conquered the world, for example, then everyone would be Nazis. The variation could occur at any point in history so far or have not happened at all yet. If that is true and there are billions of billions of Earths that are identical then logic dictates that doppelgängers of the main three characters on different versions of Earth would all have played out the same scenario entering the building at the same time on their respective worlds.

Assuming that is true, then there must be a unique version of the building on every Earth because otherwise billions of doppelgängers would have appeared in the same building at once and caused a quantum explosion or something. Kind of like if you save something to the cloud from several different devices. So are we to understand that the events unfolding in the show are also unfolding billions and billions times over in parallel? So doppelgängers of the main characters would also be traveling in their own unique version of the building and encountering the same worlds one by one with the same events unfolding?

Disregarding the idea that their would be billions and billions of worlds with absolutely no difference, because the variation hadn't happened yet, this scenario still seems impossible.

Let's break it down. Lets call the three main characters in the show Group A. If we were to observe Group A's doppelgängers, who we will call Group B, from the very next parallel world and we found that there was no variation in their world of any real significance then Group B would also have to have entered the building and be traveling to parallel worlds on a parallel time-line. Theoretically (because either the variation in group B's world was so minute it was inconsequential or the variation had not yet happened) Group B would encounter the exact same world's as Group A at the same exact time. Meaning each time Group A showed up at a new version of earth a billion doppelgängers would have to appear. The only way this could logically work is if each parallel time-line had within it infinite parallel Earths then Group A would never encounter group B.

The asian girl has at least two doppelgängers. Those two doppels would have to have joined her within her (Group A's) time-line. So they must have been on an Earth that she visited and joined her in the building. They could not be from Group B's time-line because Group B is doing the exact same thing as Group A so it would be a paradox for them to exist in the same space (each doppel would have to do exactly the same thing as the original at the same time in the same space). Further more, the asian girl's two doppels must have come from variations of Earth where the events that led the asian girl to the building in the first place never happened. They either came before or after through slightly or completely different circumstances. Otherwise the doppels would have to also be traveling in the building in a parallel time-line.

Its like this: imagine a box with a stone in it (Group A). Next to that box is another box with a stone in it (Group B). Next to that box is another box with a stone in it and on and on to infinity. Lets just say that the temperature in the second box is slightly colder than the first but otherwise they are mirror-images of each other so anything that the stone in the first box (Group A) does, the stone in the second box (Group B) also does. Now imagine taking the stone from the first box (Group A) out and placing it in the second (slightly colder) box. Because the stone in the second box (Group B) is on a parallel time-line that mimics everything that the stone from the first box (Group A) does then the stone in the second box (Group B) would have to be taken out of the box and placed in the third box at the same time the stone from the first box (Group A) is moved. Group A ends up in the second box and Group B ends up in the third box possibly usurping a Group C from their box and so on into infinity.

Group A would potentially never encounter Group B or C or D etc if their time-lines remain as close to parallel as possible. Or just enough to keep all the groups jumping. So when our characters in the show (Group A) enter the building and 'jump' for the first time, you would have to assume that many parallel groups (Groups B, C, D etc) also jumped. You just don't see them or hear about them. But the characters (Group A) 'jump' to an Earth where we are lead to believe their doppels (Lets call them Group X) got blown up in the nuclear blast. So we have to assume Group X is dead because the city was nuked along time ago meaning that Group X never jumped. The next time the characters (Group A) 'jump' they come to an Earth where two of them exist but one does not (Lets call them Group Z). Group Z has obviously not 'jumped' at least yet. The main characters (Group A) encounter Group Z and share the same world but not the same exact space because in Group Z's world something changed in history that made that world slightly more technologically advanced than Group A's home world and they have cool see-through i-Phones etc and they are not following a parallel time-line close enough to make Group Z 'jump'. Group Z could potentially have joined Group A on their time-line 'jumping' to other worlds in the building and I suppose that is how there can be three asian doppels.

So here is the problem. Lets put all the stones back in their original boxes. Group A in Box 1, Group B in Box 2 and so on. Now lets label the boxes for the three versions of Earth that the show journeys to. Box 1 would be the 'Real Earth', Box 2 would be the 'Apocalypse Earth' and Box 3 would be the 'Techy Earth'. Lets also create an additional group to represent all the billions and billions of parallel jumpers who have mirrored the actions of Group A completely doing the same things at the same time traveling from world to world. Lets call them Group # (pound sign, I am running out of numbers and letters). Now take the stone for Group A out of the Real Earth Box (Box 1) and place it in the Apocalypse Earth (Box 2). Group B from the Apocalypse Earth were decimated in the nuclear explosion so crush their stone into dust. Now take the stone that represents Group # (the parallel 'jumpers') and place it in the Apocalypse Box also. This is because everything that Group A does, Group # also has to do. Now you have a problem. You have billions of parallel jumpers all showing up at the same world at the same time.

Ok, so what if we say that because the parallel jumpers in Group # are all doing the same thing at the same time in the same space then they just kind of merge into one and you can't really see that their are actually billions of them. They essentially cancel each other out. But now consider that in our original box example (when the boxes did not represent the specific Earths), we said that the temperature in Box 2 (Not the Apocalypse Earth just a box) was slightly colder. So the Group that came from Box 2 would have been slightly different in subtle ways because they were used to a cooler climate. They would not be in complete harmony with the other billions of groups. To make it easier imagine that in Box 2 the white girl from the group had a mustache. When the parallel 'jumpers' from Group # all merged then would the white have a mustache? I will disregard the claim that all the billions of 'jumpers' simply merge into one.

The only possible way any of this could work is if each time-line that follows a group has infinite parallel Earths and time-lines within it and the members from that group can never cross out of their over-all time-line into another over-all time-line.

I understand that its simply impossible in reality in the first place to travel to parallel dimensions but each movie creates its own set of rules of reality and according to this pilot so far it seems so highly unlikely any of this story could happen because of the fundamental impossibility of parallel groups jumping to the same space that it isn't really worth considering the science or basic logic of this show. I haven't even brought up the idea that for there to be variations in all these time-lines in the first place something has to have made that happen. There has to be a reason for it to change. You cannot simply have one less mosquito without a direct cause which would have to be a variation in itself and also need an explanation. Taking the mosquito example further, you could argue that a pregnant mosquito simply laid one less egg. Such things are not as random as we understand them to be. For that to happen there has to be a perfectly good explanation for why biologically. I guess it comes down to Newton's laws. Anything contrary to that is magic.

You could argue that just because the asian chick says some people think every possibility that can exist may exist doesn't mean that is actually what is happening in the film. The evidence is that no other parallel groups show up when Group A jumps. Perhaps there are not so many parallel Earths after all maybe lets say just five billion. Perhaps we are supposed to assume that entering and traveling in the building is itself an anomaly to a person's time-line. This argument could be further supported by the idea that the two siblings in the movie were lured to the building by their father who it turns out is also a traveler and potentially off the standard time-line for all his other doppers. Meaning Group A would have to be an anomaly from their standard time-line and the only group that jumped. The deviation would come down to the moment when their father called them to come to the building. For Group A that changed everything but for all their doppels maybe they just went about their business and never even encountered the building.

I suspect I have answered my own question here. I don't know if that is what the writers really had in mind but it would seem they are saying that only Group A travels from Earth to Earth. Their is no Group # of billions of parallel jumpers. I still have issues with the premise of the building (standing in the middle of ground zero on the Apocalypse Earth without so much as a broken window, maybe on some versions on Earth people don't live in buildings but mud-huts and caves then you look over and there is this huge concrete building, maybe on another Earth that section of the city is underwater or something else is built there, there would be hundreds of homeless travelers because they would wander into the building, the list goes on) but I will give the writers the benefit of the doubt considering they made a point to tell us that the father was not originally from their Earth... Damn! That is a whole other can of worms actually. I give up!

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Well, there's one small facet that you're overlooking.

Group A gets into the Building on World 2a, and travels to World 3a. At the exact same moment, Group B is getting onto the Building on World 2b, and travels to World 3b. Likewise, Group C is getting in on 2c, and travelling to 3c. Almost identical origin worlds and almost identical destination worlds; the only difference being which group of interdimensional travellers are arriving.

Sliders (which this pilot/movie has some SERIOUSLY strong echoes of) actually covered this, kind of. On several worlds, there were 'Sliders', the same people (almost), such as Logan St Claire, or "Evil Arturo", who KNEW about sliding, and had done it (or regretted not doing it). But they were separate and distinct.

I think the same logic applies here: Each world has a Building. Similar Parallels are 'different' enough to generate their own "track", which is why there are not groups of infinitely numbered travellers.

-Bandit

"You don't have to be strong, but if you're dumb... you're playing in the wrong sandbox."

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Just a thought: Billions of buildings? What if there were an infinity of buildings? What if two random buildings switched places every 36 hours along an infinite chain of realities? Given that slight changes exist on every earth (as we've already seen) then all kinds of unique environments might exist -- each with their own variation of the main characters. Thus, there might also be mutant variations as well. They might look similar but have 3 eyes or 2 rows of teeth in their mouths. But I digress....



SPOILER ALERT It seems to me that Polly just assumes that they'd be left behind if they missed the building's next reality shift. How does she know? It sounds like she just made an educated guess unless she had actually gotten stranded previously. But then she wouldn't be in the building to begin with -- unless -- What if she got stranded and then another building arrived to take its place? What if she entered the new building and discovered that it was identical in everyway right down to the graffiti and an identical set of occupants pursing the very same goals. What if it had another set of occupants with a slightly different quest? What if she also met her doppelganger(s) that way? Of course she might have also sought them out one by one. I'm sure many of her other selves might have lived boring or otherwise uneventful lives. So, maybe she invited them to join her on a very unique adventure. We saw triplicate Pollys and yet there might well be an army of Pollys eventually. Polly seems to be having the most fun. She's taken advantage of the situation and the idea that there's safety in numbers...as well as a chance to punk the other players.

I just think that there must be more than one building and it just displaces its own doppelganger in each reality it occupies. There might be an infinity of buildings and legions of occupants ... each with their own agendas.

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1) There's an assumption that every version of ronan and beatrix that went into the building were in an active building that transported them. If there's only one active building that exists in one world at a time, only one group would travel through earths, all the other groups wouldn't have been moved. They mentioned something in the movie about how the core Earth punched a hole through every universe (at the same spot??) and this building can move from hole to hole, occupying that space (as a pocket universe??), but only one universe's space at a time.

I'm assuming Polly was traveling with others at one point and they missed the building's cue and they didn't make it on with her. Who knows if they just waited another 36 hours and the building activated again and sent them to a different path/parallel bath but lagging behind in time? It's possible. If so, then..

2) The building outside has an appearance of 20+ floors, the group only went up to floor 7. Maybe different versions of the group have been occupying different floors? Maybe the building has an appearance of 30 floors but is actually infinite? The floors were obviously significant, it could be brought in to explain something.

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oh also the dad who called the two kids is assumed to be from the core earth and traveled to a different earth and had kids. If there's only one core earth, then there's only one exact version of those two kids, not billions. Also he called them from the building, which then means he probably only called that specific earth's version of the group.

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good read. actually much better than the actual film/pilot.

the thing is this: the writers did not think even remotely that far. the plot is already so full with illogical decisions, when it comes to the script that this becomes pretty clear. as an example just take the dude that isn't able to draw even the simplest conclusions at the beginning of the film, but just minutes later is able to go to the next tech shack in an alterante reality, buy all the equipment and with his rudimentary understanding of our world technology, take some other world electronics and create a machine that can remote control a building (!!) that jumps between worlds (!!) without any research whatsoever. if that wasn't enough, the people from the core universe, who created a house that jumps between dimensions and oddly enough have their secret office space on the top levels of said building and develop other tech gadgets that are 2000 years ahead of our technology, admit that the redneck electrician did something they could never find out to do. do i need to go on?

at least the though this far: the basic idea would only work if there was an unlimited amount of dimensions, with every decision of the protagonists creating new dimensions, which is something you can not properly develop into a film/series, so they invented the core dimension as a controlling instance or copout, depending on your take on the material. theys also were smart enough to stick to the idea of having a mole and mysterious antagonist, so that they could drag this series until infinity if picked up. finally they were smart enough to use multiple versions of one character, but this versions from different dimensions. that's about how far they were thinking.

if this gets picked up, which i doubt it will, it will completely fall apart by the second season.

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You also might like "Another Earth"...dont watch the trailer for it tho...or the movie might be kinda spoiled.

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Imagine the building to be a clock, and all the possible worlds are around it. Now imagine the second hand is the transporting vessel within. If you enter the clock from your world (let's say your world lies exactly at 3) if the second hand isn't there, you don't get on the ride. people from all the other worlds could enter and leave the building at the same time and never see each other, they only see their position (5,6,7.33445, etc.). If however they enter at the brief moment the second hand stopped and is pointing to them, they can get on board and ride the second hand to other places (ride from 3 to 3.1, or 4, or all the way back to 3 again).

In this way, 1,000 versions of yourself might enter the building but only the version who happens to have the vessel visiting their world will get a ride, and no one will see the other. because like a clock and the space between time, there is effectively infinite space surrounding the singular object, and from every position all you see is yourself and the object, but you might be one of thousands.


Following this, it stands to reason that if you were in the building when the vessel comes to your world, people may instantly appear before you, or perhaps you will be wiped out, but regardless that would be the only time you could potentially run into an alternate version of yourself inside the building.

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I think you have to look at it this way:

1. It's not really billions and billions of other Earths with the three main characters, for all intents and purposes it's an infinite number of Earths with the three main characters. Furthermore there are actually an infinite number of Earths where the three main characters enter the building at the same time but, more importantly, there are also an infinite number of Earths where they don't.
2. For whatever reason - some scientific reason that's tied to their ability to 'travel' between parallel worlds - the three main characters never go to one of the infinite number of worlds where they would run into themselves, they only ever go to one of the infinite number of Earths where they don't run into themselves. If you see what I mean?

You should do some reading about infinity because it's a fascinating topic. I suggest it because you're obviously an intelligent person who likes to think about such things. A lot of people don't realise that there are different types of infinity for example. There are different sizes of infinity! For example there are an infinite number of positive integers (i.e. whole numbers greater than 0: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on and so forth forever...). However there are also an infinite number of real numbers between 0 and 1 (i.e. 0.0001, 0.34322, 0.3434332342342355234234, pi, etc. etc. etc.). What's interesting is that it can be shown that the infinite number of positive integers is actually a smaller infinite amount than the infinite number of real numbers between 0 and 1.

It's fascinating!

It's also interesting when you start talking about sets. The infinite number of positive integers is an infinite set. The infinite number of real numbers between 0 and 1 is also an infinite set. They're different sized infinite sets - as outlined above - but they are both infinite sets. Now then... what happens when you have a set which contains all of the infinite sets? The set of infinite sets in other words. ARGH! That, itself, would be an infinite set so is that the biggest infinity of all? Does the set of infinite sets contain itself and, if so, what does that mean? As I said it's fascinating and I highly recommend you go and do some reading for an interesting afternoon...

;-)

We're from the planet Duplon. We are here to destroy you.

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But they did run into eachother or atleast very briefly like in the second Earth where that Earth's Beatrix tells Harry that she swore she ran into someone that looked just like her (which was the one from the main Earth). And there was another more successful Harry in that universe as well.

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i think your mistake is in assuming that everything that happens on any earth happens exactly the same on every other possible earth.... at least, that's where i stopped reading, it's like 3:20am lol

our group, A, could very well be the only group to get in the building... maybe they only exist on half the other earths out there....

maybe polly sought our her other versions, and obviously 2 were similar enough like polly1 to join her on this crazy trip... maybe the pollys are building government agents, maybe they're criminals, maybe they work for ronan's dad (that guy was evil dad and clearly not their father from their earth)...
it's late, i'll probably edit this to make more sense tomorrow

It's mercy, compassion and forgiveness I lack. Not rationality...

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