MovieChat Forums > Parallels (2015) Discussion > Flawed logic/premise?

Flawed logic/premise?


I am already confusing myself just trying to articulate this question. I may be wrong about this so please speak up if I missed something but it seems like the premise of this show is impossible.

It is established in the show that the building exists on every version of Earth. The asian character suggests that every possible version of Earth potentially exists so there would be many worlds (billions and billions and billions and billions) that are different only because of the most minute variation ("One less mosquito"). Just like in Sliders, some worlds would be historical tangents like if Hitler had conquered the world, for example, then everyone would be Nazis. The variation could occur at any point in history so far or have not happened at all yet. If that is true and there are billions of billions of Earths that are identical then logic dictates that doppelgängers of the main three characters on different versions of Earth would all have played out the same scenario entering the building at the same time on their respective worlds.

Assuming that is true, then there must be a unique version of the building on every Earth because otherwise billions of doppelgängers would have appeared in the same building at once and caused a quantum explosion or something. Kind of like if you save something to the cloud from several different devices. So are we to understand that the events unfolding in the show are also unfolding billions and billions times over in parallel? So doppelgängers of the main characters would also be traveling in their own unique version of the building and encountering the same worlds one by one with the same events unfolding?

Disregarding the idea that their would be billions and billions of worlds with absolutely no difference, because the variation hadn't happened yet, this scenario still seems impossible.

Let's break it down. Lets call the three main characters in the show Group A. If we were to observe Group A's doppelgängers, who we will call Group B, from the very next parallel world and we found that there was no variation in their world of any real significance then Group B would also have to have entered the building and be traveling to parallel worlds on a parallel time-line. Theoretically (because either the variation in group B's world was so minute it was inconsequential or the variation had not yet happened) Group B would encounter the exact same world's as Group A at the same exact time. Meaning each time Group A showed up at a new version of earth a billion doppelgängers would have to appear. The only way this could logically work is if each parallel time-line had within it infinite parallel Earths then Group A would never encounter group B.

The asian girl has at least two doppelgängers. Those two doppels would have to have joined her within her (Group A's) time-line. So they must have been on an Earth that she visited and joined her in the building. They could not be from Group B's time-line because Group B is doing the exact same thing as Group A so it would be a paradox for them to exist in the same space (each doppel would have to do exactly the same thing as the original at the same time in the same space). Further more, the asian girl's two doppels must have come from variations of Earth where the events that led the asian girl to the building in the first place never happened. They either came before or after through slightly or completely different circumstances. Otherwise the doppels would have to also be traveling in the building in a parallel time-line.

Its like this: imagine a box with a stone in it (Group A). Next to that box is another box with a stone in it (Group B). Next to that box is another box with a stone in it and on and on to infinity. Lets just say that the temperature in the second box is slightly colder than the first but otherwise they are mirror-images of each other so anything that the stone in the first box (Group A) does, the stone in the second box (Group B) also does. Now imagine taking the stone from the first box (Group A) out and placing it in the second (slightly colder) box. Because the stone in the second box (Group B) is on a parallel time-line that mimics everything that the stone from the first box (Group A) does then the stone in the second box (Group B) would have to be taken out of the box and placed in the third box at the same time the stone from the first box (Group A) is moved. Group A ends up in the second box and Group B ends up in the third box possibly usurping a Group C from their box and so on into infinity.

Group A would potentially never encounter Group B or C or D etc if their time-lines remain as close to parallel as possible. Or just enough to keep all the groups jumping. So when our characters in the show (Group A) enter the building and 'jump' for the first time, you would have to assume that many parallel groups (Groups B, C, D etc) also jumped. You just don't see them or hear about them. But the characters (Group A) 'jump' to an Earth where we are lead to believe their doppels (Lets call them Group X) got blown up in the nuclear blast. So we have to assume Group X is dead because the city was nuked along time ago meaning that Group X never jumped. The next time the characters (Group A) 'jump' they come to an Earth where two of them exist but one does not (Lets call them Group Z). Group Z has obviously not 'jumped' at least yet. The main characters (Group A) encounter Group Z and share the same world but not the same exact space because in Group Z's world something changed in history that made that world slightly more technologically advanced than Group A's home world and they have cool see-through i-Phones etc and they are not following a parallel time-line close enough to make Group Z 'jump'. Group Z could potentially have joined Group A on their time-line 'jumping' to other worlds in the building and I suppose that is how there can be three asian doppels.

So here is the problem. Lets put all the stones back in their original boxes. Group A in Box 1, Group B in Box 2 and so on. Now lets label the boxes for the three versions of Earth that the show journeys to. Box 1 would be the 'Real Earth', Box 2 would be the 'Apocalypse Earth' and Box 3 would be the 'Techy Earth'. Lets also create an additional group to represent all the billions and billions of parallel jumpers who have mirrored the actions of Group A completely doing the same things at the same time traveling from world to world. Lets call them Group # (pound sign, I am running out of numbers and letters). Now take the stone for Group A out of the Real Earth Box (Box 1) and place it in the Apocalypse Earth (Box 2). Group B from the Apocalypse Earth were decimated in the nuclear explosion so crush their stone into dust. Now take the stone that represents Group # (the parallel 'jumpers') and place it in the Apocalypse Box also. This is because everything that Group A does, Group # also has to do. Now you have a problem. You have billions of parallel jumpers all showing up at the same world at the same time.

Ok, so what if we say that because the parallel jumpers in Group # are all doing the same thing at the same time in the same space then they just kind of merge into one and you can't really see that their are actually billions of them. They essentially cancel each other out. But now consider that in our original box example (when the boxes did not represent the specific Earths), we said that the temperature in Box 2 (Not the Apocalypse Earth just a box) was slightly colder. So the Group that came from Box 2 would have been slightly different in subtle ways because they were used to a cooler climate. They would not be in complete harmony with the other billions of groups. To make it easier imagine that in Box 2 the white girl from the group had a mustache. When the parallel 'jumpers' from Group # all merged then would the white have a mustache? I will disregard the claim that all the billions of 'jumpers' simply merge into one.

The only possible way any of this could work is if each time-line that follows a group has infinite parallel Earths and time-lines within it and the members from that group can never cross out of their over-all time-line into another over-all time-line.

I understand that its simply impossible in reality in the first place to travel to parallel dimensions but each movie creates its own set of rules of reality and according to this pilot so far it seems so highly unlikely any of this story could happen because of the fundamental impossibility of parallel groups jumping to the same space that it isn't really worth considering the science or basic logic of this show. I haven't even brought up the idea that for there to be variations in all these time-lines in the first place something has to have made that happen. There has to be a reason for it to change. You cannot simply have one less mosquito without a direct cause which would have to be a variation in itself and also need an explanation. Taking the mosquito example further, you could argue that a pregnant mosquito simply laid one less egg. Such things are not as random as we understand them to be. For that to happen there has to be a perfectly good explanation for why biologically. I guess it comes down to Newton's laws. Anything contrary to that is magic.

You could argue that just because the asian chick says some people think every possibility that can exist may exist doesn't mean that is actually what is happening in the film. The evidence is that no other parallel groups show up when Group A jumps. Perhaps there are not so many parallel Earths after all maybe lets say just five billion. Perhaps we are supposed to assume that entering and traveling in the building is itself an anomaly to a person's time-line. This argument could be further supported by the idea that the two siblings in the movie were lured to the building by their father who it turns out is also a traveler and potentially off the standard time-line for all his other doppers. Meaning Group A would have to be an anomaly from their standard time-line and the only group that jumped. The deviation would come down to the moment when their father called them to come to the building. For Group A that changed everything but for all their doppels maybe they just went about their business and never even encountered the building.

I suspect I have answered my own question here. I don't know if that is what the writers really had in mind but it would seem they are saying that only Group A travels from Earth to Earth. Their is no Group # of billions of parallel jumpers. I still have issues with the premise of the building (standing in the middle of ground zero on the Apocalypse Earth without so much as a broken window, maybe on some versions on Earth people don't live in buildings but mud-huts and caves then you look over and there is this huge concrete building, maybe on another Earth that section of the city is underwater or something else is built there, there would be hundreds of homeless travelers because they would wander into the building, the list goes on) but I will give the writers the benefit of the doubt considering they made a point to tell us that the father was not originally from their Earth... Damn! That is a whole other can of worms actually. I give up!

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Well you obviously put a lot of thought into that post, but the problem is that you don't know enough to draw some of those conclusions. First, we have only been introduced to the main characters and are just starting to find out about them. At the end we see that there are three Pollys, not just one. That is why she "forgets" things from one world to the next. So we know she is deceptive in at least one way. What if her generalization that there are infinite parallel worlds isn't true?

We already have a clue that there are a known number of worlds, and they have been chronicled somewhat by someone, somewhere, through the graffiti in the building. Also, the device that Tinker builds shows a "map" of sorts. Perhaps that device can use the map to control where they go?

Speaking of Tinker, he opens several possible plot lines. His last words in the elevator suggest that Dad might be sending the group off on a wild goose chase, or that he has yet unknown motives. Maybe he's not the dad that they have always known, but took over that role at some point. We already know that he wasn't originally from the world his kids knew.

Also, Tinker is either the world's greatest engineer, or he had already found out a few things about the building and had an idea how to hack the controls. Perhaps he documented his work somewhere?

The movie we saw is a pilot. The purpose of it is to make us want to see more. It raises possibilities and problems that it leaves unanswered. You need the story to unfold a bit more to say whether we are seeing flaws or foreshadows.

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I think you're over-thinking this. I refuse to do that as it ultimately makes as little sense to me as it does to you.

But it's also why "Sliders" made more sense as it didn;t rely on a structural transport system.

Reminds me of the Sleestaks' obelisks in "Land of the Lost"



I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is.. 
.

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Check out the movie Coherence - also on netflix

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Will do! Looks like a trip.

Something clever and/or profound.

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it's neither. if you want to see a film like coherence that's actually worth watching, then check out time crimes.

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I have to disagree. I've seen both Coherence (which is definitely worth watching) and Timecrimes. I liked both, and preferred Coherence, but I don't think it's easy to compare them.

Minor spoilers for Coherence and Timecrimes:
I can see why someone who likes one would probably like the other, and I would recommend them both too. However, I feel they're too different to really compare. Timecrimes involves time travel (as the name suggests), but Coherence has zero time travel and features something more akin to the collision of parallel universes, and I think anyone who liked some of the ideas from Parallels would like that aspect of Coherence.

I actually loved Coherence, and definitely would recommend it to anyone who liked Parallels. I didn't like Parallels myself simply because it was definitely never supposed to be a standalone movie, and I found the choices and dialogue of the characters to be outright stupid at times, as well as it just not having an ending. I did like the premise though.

I think Timecrimes is worth a watch too but it's less comparable to Parallels than Coherence, although still very good. And if you like that, I'd say give Triangle a go too.

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I took your suggestion and watched Coherence. It's NOT available for streaming on Netflix but it's available on DVD. Amazon's PRIME members can watch it for free (there's a link on IMDB). Coherence has been called Twilight Zone meets Memento. There's a freaky comet that seemingly has the ability to crack iPhone displays, confuse people, and cause parallel worlds to collide. While party goers try to figure out what's going on in the rest of the neighborhood during a power outage they discover mysteries about the nature of reality and face consequences for their actions. There's a lot of conversations to follow and sometimes it all seemed incoherent (pun intended...) as characters plot their next move and attempt to make sense of all the mind-bending strangeness that surrounds them. It's one of the few shows that I might watch again while it's fresh in my mind so that I can understand some things that I missed. Turns out that I was just as confused as were some of the characters in the film. I'm not certain that the final few minutes were satisfying, as there were still a few questions about motives that were left unanswered or that I missed. Spoiler: it had one of those classic 'You Decide What Happens Next' endings that I hate since it ended abruptly and left me wanting to see what happened next. 'When Worlds Collide' would have been a great title for this film had it not already been used....

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When I was reading the OP's manifesto it made me think of Coherence also. I love that movie.


If you take life too seriously it stops being funny.

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Okay so you probably won't even read this, but hopefully this clears things up.

First off dude, it's a TV show, anything can happen. Second, never say something is impossible because that simply isn't true. Anything is possible, we just might not understand how yet. Third, let's just entertain the idea that this actually happened or might. You can't go making all these wild assumptions about something when you can't possibly know how it works.

What if they are completely wrong in the show? What if, instead of there being all these worlds from the start, the world's didn't come into existence until the deviations happened? This could be possible because there could be multiple realities created by these deviations happening in a continuous time stream, not just pre-existing universes. That would explain why they haven't run into other versions of themselves jumping at the same time. Also one less mosquito could theoretically alter a reality just enough to cause these guys not to find the building in the first place (just another thought ;) ).

Another thing. We know nothing of these beings that created the building or the building itself. If they truly have unlocked the secrets of time and space itself, what's to say that building doesn't jump to different worlds in each universe? Just because group A went to the apocalypse world doesn't mean B did and so on. This could also explain why they never meet.

On the same note of the building, what if it is exactly the same building in every reality, but it simply exists on a dimensional plane completely separate from the reality it's occupents currently reside? So there could be an infinite number of people in the building at once but they would never know because their realities lie in a different dimensional plane, and all these planes reside in a huge area of time and space that IS the building itself. This could also account for the issue that some realities might not even have concrete nor the ability to construct such a structure. Why? Because since the building is in fact it's own huge dimension and can manipulate reality itself, it can appear however it needs in order for the occupants of such a reality to accept it. Maybe it looks one way to group A but a different way to the Asians.

Also, having your own mega reality has its perks. Like, being able to withstand nuclear explosions and travel infinite places at once. It all boils down to the fact that we haven't unlocked the secrets these beings apparently have. So that means we can't do what you're doing and look at it from a perspective where we are basically ignorant of the universe.

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Yeah, I mean kinda yeah but no. I guess I am getting at the basic idea of using a structure as the transporting device as another poster said. The Sliders just had like a remote that opened a wormhole. The building in this is kind of the wormhole and also vessel. I just can't quite wrap my head around all the many implications of the building just hanging out downtown.

I think the writers probably were inspired by Sliders, maybe even subconsciously, and while they were hashing it out just landed on the device being an ominous building that exists on all the alternate Earths kind of like a trans-dimensional elevator. I don't want to open up a genre debate here but personally if the building had been slightly more ominous I would have written it off as simply magical as opposed to somewhat based in science. I know the crucial part of science-fiction is the word fiction but I grew up reading Arthur C Clarke and thinking of it more of exploring the possibilities of what is theoretically possible (There could really be sea life on Europa, a tri-pedal creature is theoretically possible etc not so much Space Babies). In my mind I need more input to establish that this hypothetical scenario is even theoretically possible. Perhaps they will explain it further if the show continues like you say.

I think you may be right about the idea that the building is some how creating the deviations. That makes more sense in explaining many of my issues. Also, the idea that alternate groups might not travel to the same worlds after all is a good theory. And yes i suppose if the building is kind of outside reality itself that would explain a lot also. I will give the creators the benefit of the doubt that they planned to explain some of the issues I brought up later in the shows progression but deep down I suspect they are simply more interested in writing about the different worlds than going into too much depth about the mechanisms of the building.

Something clever and/or profound.

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Those are my thoughts as well. I really hope the writers go further into detail with each new episode, but you're probably right that they are more interested in the adventure rather than science. All I am saying is that, even if they don't delve further into the science behind the building, we can't write things ofhad, because we have no idea of the motives and/or capabilities of the building or it's creator. I kinda like the whole hanging out in downtown thing, maybe the creators wanted everyone to have fair access to this dimensional wonder. It's something that hasn't really been done before I have to say, they deserve some credit for that one.

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"Second, never say something is impossible because that simply isn't true. Anything is possible, we just might not understand how yet."

by that logic we should all be buying dreamcatchers.

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This hit me somewhat in the same way. We know that you can't jump to another place unless the building is currently jumping from the place your in. So if you get left behind there is no telling how long it would take for the building to come back to your place. For instance we know a very long time frame has occurred between the atomic bomb going off in the apocalyptic earth and the main characters walking out of it. This is an assumption of course but as scared as everyone was it likely doesn't happen very often but often enough for people like Tinker to ask about his earth's history/present state. With that in mind and the amount of time it takes for each jump we can almost assume there are not billions upon billions of alternate earths unless someone is either controlling the building or it doesn't follow a pattern. But I think likely we have a set number that it was cycling through.

This brings me to my next question: What if you were in the building that was being jumped to. The outside of the building never changes and the inside never changes. So if you wrote something on the wall does it instantly show up in the same place in the other earths?

As for the main characters not running into themselves already in the building we can use some TV plot to make that work by assuming "core earth dad" was the one that contacted them. He could easily be the wildcard that has moved them off of their normal paths. From the way things appeared without his phone call they would have never went into that building or met like they did. My other theory (at the bottom) is that the son could be the wildcard that leads them all off their original path somehow.

As for the asian girl I really think she is a red herring. Almost immediately after being given reason to question the father's motives or identity we are thrown another curve ball and shown she has doppelgangers with her. My guess would be she is simply trying to make it back to core earth/one of her has been there before and the real "big bad" has something to do with the father/building. I suspect the 2nd one (that knew about core earth) is likely the one from there. She did not even offer to have her hand scanned which is something you would think someone who has two other doppelgangers already might be interested in finding out.

My really out there theory is that these are not parallel versions of the same people but what if they were alternate versions of one original from the "core earth". If this idea is true I'd say there is more to the main character (the son) than we know. I think it was more than a coincidence that he didn't exist in the 2nd earth they visited. But then again I could be wrong and it would show that his mom and dad would still be gone without him but that his sister would have been more successful and the neighbor would have ended up with her without him being around.

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oppelgängers of the main three characters on different versions of Earth would all have played out the same scenario entering the building at the same time on their respective worlds.
I don't think so. The only reason they went to the building at all is because they got a call from their dad. Arguably, Dad only made the call to that univers's version of his kids, since that is the universe he claims him and mom settled down in to have a family. Since only the main characters got the call, only the main characters would bother to go to the building, leaving all other versions of themselves to continue on with their lives not knowing anything about the building.

Polly, on the other hand, probably had other circumstances that led her to the building, like curiosity. Which is probably why there are multiple Pollys; several of them from several universes likely were all curious about the building and decided to go inside... that or the 1st Polly decided to meet up with herselves around the universes and convinced them that the transdimentional nomadic life was the way to go.

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Too much reading.. i gave up.. but as far as i did get, something you said made me think of this.

Imagine the building as a train car. So a billion earths would be a billions cars on 1 single train. Each jump would be one movement forward on the track. So if you got on.. or in the building at the same time a doppleganger did.. you are each in your own car. So if the cast in this movie was from world 48.. they traveled to world 49, 50 etc as their dopplegangers at the same time from
32 to 33,34 etc
109 to 110,111 etc
1,000,087 to 1,000,088 1,000,089 etc

Thus never crossing paths. Each going from 1 "station" to the next "1 step behind" the other

Then you have those other worlds where their path never takes them to the building so you have a chance of bumping into them randomly on the street and inviting to join your journey. OR their path is slightly altered by days and weeks and it just so happens to correspond to the time the building you're on hits their world & you exit for 36 hours and return and it's like hey! Awkward.. wazzup!?

Thus why this would of been a cool sci-fi series & endless possibilities. I loved the TV show Sliders. It was a smart kid with an accident trying to get home.
THIS show almost has a scientific conspiracy agenda, an ongoing protagonist along with possible world event antagonists. As a viewer we have no idea of the why or the science like the cast. We learn as they learn. We don't feel sorry because they are lost from "their home world". The building may not even go in a "chronological order" but the boarding and unboarding stays the same. If one doppleganger cast gets left behind.. they may next meet the main cast on next 36 hour shift.

Now.. what if only one building or train car moves? Why does no one notice? Perhaps World 1.. the initial world. The scientific creation of said building is what even triggered a parallel world expansion. They Never existed until that point. So because it birthed each new alternate reality... it's the main focal point of the world(s) and the building is its tether. So the whole abandoned building. Owned by some company or some individual. Never used or quarantined.. whatever.. stays the same. Giving each world a "train station" the building can stop at with no problem. And because it's a tether. It's indestructible. Thus the first world jump it was still standing and all of the world's inhabitants knew & feared going in it.

So much possibility for a good tv show

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There are tons of possible flaws in this series. But the series could very well end up making sense anyway, as we don't know the rules.

I really liked this pilot and I want to see a series.

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