MovieChat Forums > It Follows (2015) Discussion > Wow, this didn't make a lick of sense!! ...

Wow, this didn't make a lick of sense!! (spoilers)

posted 8 years ago by felstein
23 replies | jump to latest

In its defense I will admit that it has some originality, but "original" does not necessarily equate to "good." There were so many inconsistencies of plot and character motivation that after a while it just became ridiculous. Just a sampling of my observations:
1) Why did Hugh find it necessary to chloroform Jay and tie her to the wheelchair?
2) Why is Jay so matter-of-fact about Hugh giving her what amounts to an STD? What's more, why are Jay's friends so matter-of-fact about it when they finally meet Hugh/Jeff. If Jay were my friend, I would have torn Jeff limb from limb for what he had done.
3) Up until the entity makes its physical presence known and removes all doubt of its existence, why do Jay's friends never question her sanity, think she might be doing drugs, etc?
4) Why was Hugh staying in the rathole? I understand that he didn't want Jay to know his true identity, and that he wanted to set up "alarms" for the entity... but he could have done all that from in his own home, and just not brought Jay around his house.
5) The film is constantly rewriting the rules about what the entity does or doesn't do, what can hurt/kill it, etc. Why does it attack Greg with such ferocity but only pull Jay's hair?
6) After Greg is killed, no mention of him is ever made again.
7) If Jay cares about Paul, why does she have sex with him.
And this is a perfect segue to the most absurd part of all...
6) Paul and Greg can't wait to get into Jay's pants -- despite the fact that doing so will basically destroy their lives and they know it. I've heard of being p-whipped, but this is ridiculous!

The hosannas showered upon this film from the critics are a mystery to me. Perhaps it has something to do with its literary pretentions, dropping as it does a little bit of Dostoevsky here, a little bit of T.S. Eliot there...

[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

1) Why did Hugh find it necessary to chloroform Jay and tie her to the wheelchair?

Because she would laugh in his face if he started talking about giving her some monster via sex?

He had to show it to her.

2) Why is Jay so matter-of-fact about Hugh giving her what amounts to an STD? What's more, why are Jay's friends so matter-of-fact about it when they finally meet Hugh/Jeff. If Jay were my friend, I would have torn Jeff limb from limb for what he had done.

So, your problem here is that people don't act the way you would?

3) Up until the entity makes its physical presence known and removes all doubt of its existence, why do Jay's friends never question her sanity, think she might be doing drugs, etc?

Because they want to be supportive, like what friends are supposed to do. They may not believe her but they'll do anything to make her feel better. That's why they were doing all that.

4) Why was Hugh staying in the rathole? I understand that he didn't want Jay to know his true identity, and that he wanted to set up "alarms" for the entity... but he could have done all that from in his own home, and just not brought Jay around his house.

Because he didn't want to be found.

5) The film is constantly rewriting the rules about what the entity does or doesn't do, what can hurt/kill it, etc. Why does it attack Greg with such ferocity but only pull Jay's hair?

How is it rewriting rules and what can kill it?

It grabbed her hair because she was sitting on a chair, she wasn't right in font of it like Greg. Plus, Jeff said it will toy with its victims.

What you described there isn't any rule breaking because no such rule was ever established.

6) After Greg is killed, no mention of him is ever made again.

He is mentioned in the scene where Paul talks with Jay in her room. We're even shown police cars next to his house.

7) If Jay cares about Paul, why does she have sex with him.

Because he really cares about her as well. They'll face it together.

6) Paul and Greg can't wait to get into Jay's pants -- despite the fact that doing so will basically destroy their lives and they know it. I've heard of being p-whipped, but this is ridiculous!

Maybe because they're not awful human beings who won't help her?

Perhaps it has something to do with its literary pretentions, dropping as it does a little bit of Dostoevsky here, a little bit of T.S. Eliot there...

It's not "just droppping Dostoyevski here and there". It uses those quotes to reinforce the symbolism of the movie.

[–] felstein 8 years ago

>> He had to show it to her.

Umm, he could have just said, "There's something you need to see." The way they did it in the movie was creepier, I guess, but it made no sense at all. Any ANY girl in that situation would have unleashed hell on Hugh for what he had done.

>> So, your problem here is that people don't act the way you would?

Huh?? That is how ANYONE in that situation would have reacted! And if, as you say, these people loved Jay so much -- so much that they would destroy their own lives (which, by the way, wouldn't do her much good) -- then they would have unleashed hell on Hugh/Jeff as well.

>> Because they want to be supportive, like what friends are supposed to do.
>> They may not believe her but they'll do anything to make her feel better.

Oh, come on! A true friend is not just some "yes man" (or woman) who stands idly by while someone they care about may be destroying herself.

>> It grabbed her hair because she was sitting on a chair,

First, it didn't grab her by the hair, it played with her hair. It could have truly grabbed her by the hair and then broken her neck. Playing with the hair was just another artificial contrivance, nothing more.

>> How is it rewriting rules and what can kill it?

How about:
1) It's supposed to be following Jay, yet the naked man is just standing on the roof, doing nothing.
2) It can get shot in the head, which can kill it, except when it doesn't, except when it does.

>> Maybe because they're not awful human beings who won't help her?

How does it make them awful human beings?? Destroying their own lives won't do her any good. They won't be able to truly be there for her, and passing the "STD" onto someone else doesn't mean it entirely leaves the first person.

>> It uses those quotes to reinforce the symbolism of the movie.

It's an attempt at profundity where none exists. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Mitchell wants to be the next David Lynch, but even Lynch would not be so pretentious as to include literary references.
Furthermore, Lynch, even at his weirdest, understands that dream logic has to follow certain rules.

[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

Umm, he could have just said, "There's something you need to see." The way they did it in the movie was creepier, I guess, but it made no sense at all. Any ANY girl in that situation would have unleashed hell on Hugh for what he had done.

So, he'd tell her that there's something she needs to see and make her wait for hours? She'd just leave. If he tried to stop her, she'd freak out and want to leave faster.

If he tries to explain the rules before the monster arrives she'll freak out because he's not making any sense and try to leave.

If he waits for the monster to arrive she'd freak out and try to run away if it looked like that naked woman, if it decided to look like a completely normal person she'd be in a big risk because she could walk up to it.

What he did is smart because he could easily explain it to her and demonstrate that he's not kidding.

What you're suggesting is careless and stupid.

Huh?? That is how ANYONE in that situation would have reacted! And if, as you say, these people loved Jay so much -- so much that they would destroy their own lives (which, by the way, wouldn't do her much good) -- then they would have unleashed hell on Hugh/Jeff as well.

They're simply not selfish. Definition of friendship and human decency in general includes such acts like putting your own life at risk to help another.

You can't know what every person on Earth thinks so you're in no position to say how anyone can act since we're all individuals with different ideas, ways of thinking etc. We're not some hive mind.

Last but not least, unleashing Hell on Jeff is an incredibly stupid decision.

They went there to get whatever info he has. Attacking him in his own home, in front of his mother no less, is stupid. They'd get kicked out of the house and what would they do then?

Acting calmly and making Jeff cooperate was a smart decision. Doing what you do would make them typical stupid horror movie characters.

Oh, come on! A true friend is not just some "yes man" (or woman) who stands idly by while someone they care about may be destroying herself.

Not trying to find Jeff would do more harm than good because Jay might start to freak out (and she was already freaking out a lot). They're not "yes men" for doing that, they expressed their doubts but if they didn't do it she'd destroy herself even more.

First, it didn't grab her by the hair, it played with her hair.

It grabbed her hair because the hair was lifted in the air.

It could have truly grabbed her by the hair and then broken her neck. Playing with the hair was just another artificial contrivance, nothing more.

And it was shown in the movie that it doesn't kill you like that, it rapes you (or does something that looks like rape to us). It also wants to play with your head first, it wants to hurt you.

1) It's supposed to be following Jay, yet the naked man is just standing on the roof, doing nothing.

Not an inconsistency. If the rule was "it will follow you without stopping in its tracks" then you'd have a point. There's nothing saying that it can stop if it wants to. It was shown in the movie multiple times that sometimes stops and observes its surroundings anyway, like when it grabs a rock to smash a window (that's something it did 2 times actually) and when it sees what they planned to do in the pool.

It's slow but not stupid, it can think and even intimidate its victims, play around with them, freak them out.

Plus, in that scene there was a chair on the door. Sure, it can break the door but that will give Jay and co time to escape, that's something it knows because she escaped it that time once already.

That's why it decided to climb the roof and go inside her room via window. It would catch them all off guard like that and have time to grab Jay while they're moving the chair and unlocking the door.

2) It can get shot in the head, which can kill it, except when it doesn't, except when it does.

It wasn't shown that a shot in the head kills it, the most it has shown is that it temporary stops it. Where was it shown that it kills it?

Even at the end they put a chair on the door and had sex. They weren't sure if it was dead. And it's shown at the very end that it's maybe indeed still following them.

How does it make them awful human beings?? Destroying their own lives won't do her any good. They won't be able to truly be there for her, and passing the "STD" onto someone else doesn't mean it entirely leaves the first person.

Luckily, they're not selfish bastards. They know what the risk is but still want to do it. That's what makes them decent human beings.

Oh and they will truly be there with her. Paul now shares Jay's burden. The ending implies that they'll face that thing together. One of them is safe and they can have sex so sometimes it can follow Paul, sometimes Jay. The creature is basically stuck in a loop and the curse can't be spread any further.

It's an attempt at profundity where none exists. It seems pretty clear that Mr. Mitchell wants to be the next David Lynch, but even Lynch would not be so pretentious as to include literary references.
Furthermore, Lynch, even at his weirdest, understands that dream logic has to follow certain rules.

What do you mean there's no profoundity?

Also, what are you talking about? A lot of works use literary references and other things like that. This isn't the first and last movie to do it.

For example, anime Neon Genesis Evangelion (highly influential and respected work btw.) uses many phyosophical terms and references. One episode is even called "hedgehog's dilemma".

What about all those movies that have some quotes at the beginning of the movie or which have characters recite sayings exactly. Are they bad and pretentious for using it?

Do you know what the meaning of that word is? What It Follows does isn't pretentious.

That's something what Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence likes to do a lot, here are some examples:

Togusa: His legions, angel forms, who lay entranced. Thick as autumnal leaves that strow the brooks.
Bateau: Now you're quoting Milton, but we are not Satan.

Bateau: "The less one forgets, the less one can remember."

To say that it's wrong to use it, pretentious, is absurd and I have to question your knowledge and common sense, especially since you've shown that you got facts wrong about this movie.

And, the movie did follow rules.

[–] felstein 8 years ago

>> I have to question your knowledge and common sense

Argumentum ad hominem... the last resort of the one who is losing the argument. That says a lot about the type of person you are.

Bye-bye.

[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

I just don't have mercy who accuses the director of being pretentious for no good reason and who even gets facts about the movie wrong, all while trying to make himself sound like being in the right.

[–] eipmatt 8 years ago

You're an idiot; That's an ad hominem attack. The other poster put in a lot of time addressing each of your points, but it didn't really seem like you gave a crap about the discussion enough to consider a different perspective. You made up your mind before hand and then posted your opinion online looking for validation. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but it seems like the other poster thought about his/her opinion much more than you did. Why bother conversing with a broken record? It's better to just move on.

[–] felstein 8 years ago

** snore **

[–] Jeorj Euler 8 years ago

I agree that the questioning of felstein's "knowledge" and "common sense" was uncalled-for. However, hereby it's the consensus of four of five users that he/she couldn't think of an adequate rebuttal in the end and quite frankly didn't put forth all that accurate, logical or persuasive of an assertion to begin with in creating this thread. Anyway, we ought to be nice to each other. The thread was never meant to be about its participants, and five participants turned it into that. That makes us all losers (of argumentation), in sense, because we have likely failed to persuade anybody whom we thought needed persuading. The objective isn't to look like a smart arse or a clever conversationalist. The objective is to help people who don't understand a given thing. If the objective is not met, then it seeker has lost even if the presence or omission of just one sentiment would've meant winning.

[–] the_butch 8 years ago

no, the tc didn't make his/her mind up beforehand. instead, he/she tried to sound all smart and sh!t, typing that bullsh!t original post up without a second thought, and as soon as he/she got SOLIDLY put in place, he/she couldn't come up with anything else but a *snore*.

next time, think before you speak...... dumba$$

[–] thedarkestshadow81 8 years ago

The fact that it didn't make a lick of sense to you says a lot about the type of person you are.

[–] mel2000 (259) a year ago

6) Paul and Greg can't wait to get into Jay's pants -- despite the fact that doing so will basically destroy their lives and they know it. I've heard of being p-whipped, but this is ridiculous!

Maybe because they're not awful human beings who won't help her?

I've no doubt that the Aids crisis was the genesis of this movie's plot. While Aids was never as frightening as the infection depicted in this movie, when it was discovered in the late 70's/early 80's, people took hysterical steps to avoid likely Aids carriers. So the thought of characters willingly infecting themselves should never have even been a credible consideration.

[–] Zarkoff (1853) 5 months ago

Greg wasn't even fully convinced of the curse.

It annoyed me that they thought the current created from putting an appliance in such a large pool would be strong enough to kill someone. You'd think they'd run that plan by someone to see if it would work like that in the real world (of the movie) before putting it into action. Also, Jay had shot "it" in the neck earlier and that only slowed it down a little bit. I'm not sure why they thought they could kill it in a conventional way.

They did do something smart at the end, having that male friend go to a prostitute. The curse was pretty likely to get passed on quickly that way. Putting aside the moral issues of spreading it, you'd want to put as many people between her and the curse as possible.

[–] Garchomp 8 years ago

1) It is implied that the woman who dies in the opening scene got It from Hugh. That is why when Hugh is going on dates with Jay, at first he isn't scared or paranoid. He thought that It was still following another chick and he was safe. Then when he sees It standing in the movie theater he realizes that it has come back for him. So when he gets the chance to pass it along again he makes sure to explain the rules very clearly to Jay and scare her to make sure that she survives as long as possible so that It does not come back for him. Ultimately, tying her up was just a way for him to scare her into taking him seriously.

2) through 7) I won't debate with you. The movie is definitely not perfect. I agree with some of your points and some I feel you are nitpicking.

8) Paul is indeed pussy whipped. He had a big crush on Jay since they were little so he did a very stupid thing. Greg simply did not believe her and so figured that he was getting free sex.

[–] Garchomp 8 years ago

1) It is implied that the woman who dies in the opening scene got It from Hugh. That is why when Hugh is going on dates with Jay, at first he isn't scared or paranoid. He thought that It was still following another chick and he was safe. Then when he sees It standing in the movie theater he realizes that it has come back for him. So when he gets the chance to pass it along again he makes sure to explain the rules very clearly to Jay and scare her to make sure that she survives as long as possible so that It does not come back for him. Ultimately, tying her up was just a way for him to scare her into taking him seriously.

2) through 7) I won't debate with you. The movie is definitely not perfect. I agree with some of your points and some I feel you are nitpicking.

8) Paul is indeed pussy whipped. He had a big crush on Jay since they were little so he did a very stupid thing. I agree that Jay is a *beep* for actually allowing him to do it though. Very cowardly of her. Greg simply did not believe her and so figured that he was getting free sex.

[–] SWLinPHX-2 8 years ago

The only thing that made me hate this film more than if I had watched it blindly was all the huge praise. I feel like I must've seen a completely different film, or this is an April Fools joke or something. My God.

[–] evenflow84-80-51467 8 years ago

1) He doesn't think she would believe him if he just came out and said theres a sex ghost after me. Maybe he has tried calmly explaining IT to someone previously and they died quickly because they thought he was crazy. So he decided to tie her to a chair and make her look at IT.

4) He used a fake name & address so the police don't find him after he chloroforms her. Which worked, the police didn't find him.

5) The monster rapes all its victims to death. It did that to Greg & also to the girl at the beginning. The fact that it pulls Jays hair doesn't contradict that. Maybe it was going to drag her by the hair & rape her to death, but her friends intervened first.

7) Jay cares about Paul and tells him "no" repeatedly until he convinces her that they can face IT together and protect eachother. If she faces it alone she is more likely to die. But if he can see it too & they look after eachother then they can manage it together. Paul convinces her and that is the ending to the movie.

[–] pfate12 8 years ago

6) After Greg is killed, no mention of him is ever made again.

There's 20 minutes remaining at that point and the focus is to kill "IT" once and for all. Mentioning Greg's death adds nothing to the plot at that point.

6) Paul and Greg can't wait to get into Jay's pants -- despite the fact that doing so will basically destroy their lives and they know it. I've heard of being p-whipped, but this is ridiculous!

I got the sense that Greg never believed it and took advantage of the situation to sleep with her. Paul on the other hand, a combination of desperate and hopeless romantic, he was willing to take that risk seeing how badly he wanted her (that's made clear from the beginning).

[–] neptunewaves (75) 7 years ago

1) Dude. His life literally depended on Jay buying into the existence of the world's bonkers STD. Scaring her straight was his best shot at improving their odds of survival. And even THEN it takes for It to start chasing her around campus for Jay to take Jeff's words as more than the ramblings of a raging lunatic!

2) You seem to have forgotten they filed a police report, Jay was examined for STDs (which the curse is NOT), etc. By the time they actually run into him, it's clear at least Greg wanted to tear him out a new one, but they had more pressing issues at hand, namely, learning the most they can about It to save Jay.

3) Because they ARE her friends and whether they believe her or not (they don't till It pulled up Jay's hair and hurts Paul) it's irrelevant when Jay is so obviously terrified and desperate. First, you comfort and try your darndest to help, then you start judging the traumatized assault victim.

4) Jeff was clearly not thinking straight by that point. He probably rented the place while he pondered his options and deal with the very real possibility he wouldn't ever be free of It, as to not endanger his family and friends.

5) Plot armor.

6) False.

7) Because she finally realizes she cares for him just as much as he does and decides to fight It together.

6) Greg didn't really believe in Ir. Paul valued Jay's life just as much as his.

[–] MasterPenguin (165) 6 years ago

I know the director didn’t want to give any lore to the demon, but I wish they had.

It was a good movie but for all the praise, the ending was massively cliche and it would have been less cliche to actually have them defeat the demon.

They seemed to be hinting at that with it not going in the water. But then when it did it still moved around. I was hoping it would reveal the demons weakness being it can’t swim or something simple like that.

Kinda getting over these horror movies that do the “oh no it’s still alive and coming for them” ending. Like I got my horror thrills why not just let the ending show the monsters defeat?

Also by not creating any lore, it doesn’t make sense to how it even exists still. The first person who got it should have died as they would have had no idea what it was. They wouldn’t have taken any precautions.

Like seriously when you think about it. This demon should not exist because someone who doesn’t know it’s after them would easily get killed.