MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (2023) Discussion > Thoughts on Rogue

Thoughts on Rogue

posted 6 months ago by peter_t_2k3 (1050)
17 replies | jump to latest

Episode goes back to the kind of adventure feel. It's a filler episode but nothing wrong with that, as we've had a lot of different types of episode. Wasn't anything special though.

There will be a lot of people complaining about the doctor and Rogue romance. I've always preferred the doctor to avoid romance but it makes sense to do something different rather than the standard male female romance and Jonathan Groff was good in the role.

A lot of people think this is Jack but I just think he's a similar character. He doesn't seem to recognise the doctor or the TARDIS and I can't see why he'd pretend.

I also loved when the doctor thought Ruby had died, the rage started to appear. This and the scene at the end of dot and bubble is what I was missing from 15 at the start of the season, seeing more elements rather than just the happy side. This scene also made me think of family of blood.

I also missed something. When we saw the doctors previous faces I thought one seemed odd but didn't realise this was because it was Richard E Grant. He played the doctor in the 1999 red nose day special The Curse of Fatal Death which was written by later show runner Steven Moffat. He then played the 9th doctor in the 2003 BBC animation The Scream of The Shalka. This also has a version of the master played by Derek Jacobi who would play the master in the show itself and a cameo from future doctor David Tennant.

More of these animations where apparently planned but the show coming back changed this. Richard E Grant would then play The Great Intelligence in the show.

I don't think this means anything but I could be wrong. It does seem odd to show this but RTD has said everything is canon

But yeah an okay episode, nothing special. I do think the length of this series has maybe hindered episodes like this. Interested to see next week's as it appears to be the first in a 2 part finale and we may possibly find out who Susan Twist is.

[–] [deleted] 6 months ago

I really enjoyed this episode myself, as I liked the overall feel of the episode.

Yep I don't think Rogue is Jack, as I don't see any sign that it was, it's not like a River Song thing where the timelines don't meet up, or one would have known the other somehow. Could they throw a curveball in and the person that Rogue lost was Captain Jack, who knows but I wouldn't write it out as a possibility, but way down the track like next season or the one after.

All up a fun episode for mine and the previous faces part brought back some old Who memories of when it happened to the Doctor in The Brain of Morbius. So where the timeless child tied back to that a bit, could that face that seems like Richard E Grant be the Valeyard from Trial of a Time Lord (Colin Baker time), for those who may not know, the Master at that time said the Valeyard was actually a future version of the Doctor, an amalgamation of the darker sides of his nature, so could that be it down the track.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 6 months ago

There was a rumour that this doctor may eventually regenerate into the valeyard and maybe they choose the face of the Great Intelligence

Or it could just be RTD trolling

[–] [deleted] 5 months ago

Could be a troll to get people talking, or as you and Hurricane say just a nod to the animations, choosing the Face of the Great Intelligence would be okay though as it'd be what a darker character would likely do I think. They touched on the faces coming from somewhere with Peter Capaldi having been in The Fires of Pompeii and Torchwood's Children of Earth, though if they do go Valeyard, hope it's just a special and not a prolonged one.

[–] hurricane (1959) 6 months ago

I suspect that Richard E Grant thing was just a reference to those animated adventures they did back in the day.

Dunno why they'd bother personally, but I don't think it's anything more meaningful than that.

[–] hurricane (1959) 6 months ago

As for the episode itself, yeah it was okay. Seen better, seen worse.

I don't think Rogue was Captain Jack. There was no clue that he was at all. And, even though John Barrowman coming back might be seen as controversial, so would recasting him.

Whether Rogue returns, we'll see. But it wouldn't bother me if he didn't.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 5 months ago

Yeah I've seen a lot of people happy about Richard e grant being on there but if your going to show non main TV series then what about Peter Cushing?

It also seems an odd move considering they are trying to market this as series 1 but have included an animated non TV series doctor that even many 2005 and onwards fans won't know about.

[–] KiwiJim (1178) 5 months ago

I thought it was an entertaining filler episode. I liked the design of the bird aliens and the costumes were awesome. I thought it was one of Gatwa’s better performances but the storyline was underwhelming.

We all knew the kiss was coming so I wasn’t shocked. I prefer the Doctor when he’s more emotionally distant but he’s been kissy kissy since 2005 so it is what it is.

I think Rogue will definitely be back at some point. To be honest I’m more looking forward to finding out if the old bird next door is Susan.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 5 months ago

Yeah I watch/listen to the review of death podcast and they mentioned how they have struggled with this doctor because they have made him too human.

There is nothing wrong with seeing a more emotional doctor and someone watching their livestream review of the episode pointed out it actually can help to destigmatize the idea of men not crying, but the doctor usually works best when there is some alienness in their character/performance.

They also pointed out how the crying at the end of the last episode made sense but it lost its impact because the doctor has done it in basically every episode. It reminds me of Moffat using the power of love or fake deaths, if you do something all the time, the impact isn't the same. They also talked about how there hasn't been any friction between the doctor and Ruby

[–] AndyKing1967 (38073) 4 months ago

I didn’t enjoy it.

If you look at my post history, you’ll see I’ve always been supportive of Dr. Who, but I just felt that the romance was a little forced.

[–] capuchin (3182) 4 months ago

I thought it was alright. But I agree with you that the romance was a little forced. Just this instant attraction, basically. And, sure, that happens sometimes in real life but I can't be expected to believe instant attraction leads to deep, romantic feelings that I as a viewer should give a crap about in just 45 minutes. You have to sell it to me better than that. It was no Girl in the Fire Place in that regard...

... but it was alright.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 4 months ago

Yeah they did try to do a full romantic relationship in an episode

Personally I'd rather the doctor doesn't have romantic relationships.

[–] capuchin (3182) 4 months ago

Personally I'd rather the doctor doesn't have romantic relationships.

Yeah. Me too. I prefer The Doctor to be alien and aloof. Romance feels too human. But I've accepted it as part of the show now -- especially when Russell is at the helm. *Shrug*

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 4 months ago

I will say a lot of people have complained 15 is too human and I do agree.

I don't mind seeing a human element but it would be interesting to see more of his alieness. Even 10 showed this at times.

[–] capuchin (3182) 4 months ago

All three of RTD's Doctors have been pretty human, haven't they?

This is probably one of the reasons I prefer Moffat's run: Smith and Capaldi, in their very different ways, were both pretty aloof characters. Smith played The Doctor as if The Doctor was constantly putting on an act. And you could easily believe that Capaldi's Doctor was what was hiding underneath that act all along.

But human and all kissy-kissy is just how Russell does it.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 4 months ago

Yeah I've seen people say that 9 was suffering from PTSD and 10 does get over it but still feels guilty with 11 ignoring it. 12 is when the doctor takes of the mask.

[–] KiwiJim (1178) 4 months ago

That’s fair, it felt a little forced to me too. Did you see 73 yards though? To me that’s up with the best episodes in any season.

[–] AndyKing1967 (38073) 4 months ago

Yes - 73 yards is the best episode so far. I think I’m enjoying Ruby, more than 15 🤔