Awful - Better Call Saul (2015) Discussion

[–] 102000 (6253) 2 years ago

What to say? Not at all what I wanted from the ending. While I don't think it was unrealistic for Gene to get caught and go to prison, it was so anti-climatic and in a season where there were such spectacular deaths, Jimmy just fading away and going to prison was so predictable and boring.

What about Kim? Her fate is unknown and I had really hoped that all loose ends would be tied up tonight.

I wanted a spectacular ending and I really thought when I saw Kim in the courtroom that I might get the ending I wanted with her somehow shooting Jimmy and then turning the gun on herself.

Oh well, it was a good run - to bad the finish left a lot to be desired.

reply

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 2 years ago

I just felt it was pointless. He threw himself on a sword to save her from a Civil suit that would have cost her a lot of money. So what? I mean he could have served the 7 years and gotten out and helped her with making money. It wasn’t an even exchange at all. The ending was pitiful. I would have loved for them to have produced a fan theory story instead.

reply

[–] Burk48917 (11365) 2 years ago

That wasn't the point. He came clean so Kim would respect him again, nothing more. He hated who he was, he hated Saul Goodman. He was tired of carrying those demons.

reply

[–] Boricanator (1440) 2 years ago

I also think that Kim coming clean inspired him. He finally came to terms with the fact that everything he did was wrong. In a way, he finally reformed, even if he has to spend the rest of his life in prison.

reply

[–] TheArgentinian (7072) 2 years ago

Have you ever heard of this thing called love, kiddo?

reply

[–] ATG6 (3000) 2 years ago

What lot of money? Kim isn't exactly living in Palm Beach.

I figured Saul would get acquitted on all the Albuquerque stuff since most of the witnesses were dead already. The "poor me, Walter White's a meanie" plea bargain negotiation was brilliant though -- should have left it at that.

But then I figured they would get him for the mall burglary in Omaha, since he took pains to make it a felony, and a conspiracy, and a federal crime (5-10 years easy.) (Sort of like getting Capone for tax evasion.) The Feds should have cracked down on Jeff to make him talk.

I get it that admitting what he did and why he did it and that he now felt real remorse and guilt was the only way he could reconnect with Kim. I didn't think this was a love story though. One last con...

reply

[–] davebuffalo (3456) 2 years ago

The "poor me, Walter White's a meanie" plea bargain negotiation was brilliant though -- should have left it at that.

-- I agree, and leave us imagining that Kim and Saul get back together in 7 years and live a fairly mundane life, but where? Kim never answered the question, "why Florida"?

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7235) 2 years ago

I mean, if your ideal ending is a Kim murder-suicide, you were guaranteed to be disappointed from the get-go.

reply

[–] 102000 (6253) 2 years ago

I just wanted something big to happen.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7235) 2 years ago

Jimmy finally having a moment of clarity, and owning up to his sins despite knowing the repercussions, wasn't big enough? What could have been bigger, while staying true to the characters as they've been developed over the past six seasons? Sure, Kim could have gone on a murder spree, or Ehrmantraut could have returned as a zombie and eaten Saul, or a tornado could have hit the courtroom and allowed Saul to escape, but within the context of the show, I think we got the most powerful and thought-provoking ending imaginable.

reply

[–] 102000 (6253) 2 years ago

LOL - I wasn't looking for thought provoking - I wanted Jimmy and Kim to both die and I don't think that is as crazy as you make it sound. They are both tragic figures - I wanted a tragic, not bittersweet ending.

She thought he had thrown her under the bus and at that stage, did she really have anything to lose? She had a miserable life in Florida - not like she was risking much by going off the deep end.

As it turned out, he didn't turn on her, but when the hearing started, she didn't know that.

reply

[–] Vicar358 (22) 2 years ago

This was never Breaking Bad. I think viewers got over zealous with wanting violence after Nacho and Howard. It’s the right end. Jimmy can finally look himself in the mirror and Kim will get to help those in need of legal aid. Howard gets his reputation back.

reply

[–] declan19862002 (2) 2 years ago

I think this would have been a great idea. Another would have been that he landed it all on Kim and she got put away and he lived up to always being a weasel and schemer?

reply

[–] MrMovie (897) 2 years ago

Brutal, that’s Sopranos and Dexter level bad ending

reply

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 2 years ago

The Sopranos ending I could deal with. Agree Dexter was dreadful. But this ending was just pointless. I would have rather Kim and Jimmy both go away to prison and later get out together. Jimmy falling on his sword had no meaning at all.

reply

[–] SpikeMike (470) 2 years ago

How was it pointless?

He got Kim to at least talk to him again and saved her from further embarrassment and a lifetime of financial ruin and hardship. In prison he is loved and gets to be himself and not hide who he is anymore. He could never truly be himself before as he always was trying to prove himself to someone. Now he gets all the respect and adulation he wants.

reply

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 2 years ago

Kim filed a sworn affidavit which meant she is STILL subject to civil litigation no matter what he says. His testimony was not a get out of Civil Litigation forever card for Kim. Nothing can change their shenanigans related to ruining Howard.

I actually would have preferred him taking the 7 years and her visiting him for that time at the nicer prison for white collar inmates in North Carolina.

reply

[–] Vicar358 (22) 2 years ago

He gets her respect again. She would not have accepted him if he’d connived that deal. That was Saul and she was never in love with him.

reply

[–] maul (1635) 2 years ago

That's not entirely true - Jimmy being Saul-like was what fueled their relationship, and they both got off on the scams they committed. Also, him needing even a slice of Kim's affection again many years later in exchange for life in prison is not only unbelievable, but extremely lame and a character regression.

We never saw him begin to come to grips with his wrongdoings or begin the process of change - just an episode ago he was about to kill a little old lady and a guy with cancer (who he insisted on scamming), and just in this episode he disrespected the lives of Hank/Gomez right in front of Marie by pretending to be a victim, and gleefully was ready to sell details of Howard's death for less time.

Yet, out of nowhere, because he hears that Kim confessed (something he was mocking just an episode ago), a flip is switched and his character totally changes. It's ridiculous. For a show that is usually brimming with character development, it feels like they just wanted this redemption arc at the last moment and crammed it in there regardless of whether it made sense.

reply

[–] Vicar358 (22) 2 years ago

I see it completely different. I always thought that when jimmy felt hurt by those he loved, it was when he lashed out the most. When his brother hurt him, he responded by getting his insurance canceled. His treatment of Kim signing the divorce papers was not a sign that he was over her, but that he still loved her and acting out was the only way he knew how to respond. So when she said what she said on the phone, it was a natural progression that he would get careless, acting out from a place of rejection.
It’s really no wonder after chuck died, he slipped into a pseudo character.

reply

[–] ATG6 (3000) 2 years ago

Kim had changed and was truly remorseful. Jimmy wasn't inspired by that, but knew that admitting what he did wrong was the only way to win her back. He'd rather spend 86 years in prison and have her visit him than to get out in 7 years and never see her again.

reply

[–] maul (1635) 2 years ago

Yes, I understand that that's what they were conveying, and I'm saying it's ridiculous, and both out of character and a character regression. Out of character in the sense that no sane person would do something like that (certainly not Jimmy/Saul/Gene at this point), and regressed because he's all the way back to desperately needing Kim's approval again.

If we're going to go from Saul Goodman in BB, and Gene the cancer-scamming, almost old-lady-killing "still out here, still getting away with it" arrogant sociopath... to someone the exact opposite... to someone Jimmy never was because Jimmy never truly took responsibility for his actions and always weaseled his way out of situations... we need a little more than 5 minutes of character development.

Their last conversation on the phone didn't inspire him to win her back even though she wanted him to turn himself in, it inspired him to go deeper and darker. When she left him initially, he wasn't inspired to change, he was inspired to go deeper and darker - full Saul. For a majority of the finale he was all for the 7 year deal, acting as nasty as ever, and Kim wasn't in the equation.

Yet I'm supposed to believe that simply learning about Kim confessing (again, he mocked this just an episode ago), was the catalyst to undo all this character development we've seen throughout the entire series, and bring him back from the brink in a way that he's never even remotely come close to. To sacrifice his entire life in an insane way and completely go against his nature. I simply do not buy it, and I'm not alone - the groundwork was not laid for this revelation and it came out of nowhere.

reply

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 2 years ago

Yes, very well stated. I’ve been reading all these commentaries about how “brilliant” the ending was. I’m left rather dumb-founded. There is no real journey leading to “redemption.” People don’t just turn on a dime the way Jimmy did at the end. He went from being Gene— doing world class despicable things— to being Jimmy doing his full confession. I actually think one of the sweetest parts of the last episode had NOTHING to do with Kim at all. It was when he used his call at the police station to call his Associate at Cinnabon to tell her that he would not be in that day (or any day) and that she would have to cover for him. Most people would have just not shown up and let the shop figure it out. Now, if Gene had done MORE things like that, it would be easier to accept.

I was very disappointed in the ending. No amount of pondering it (which I have done a lot of these past few days) is going to change it. The ending was incredibly unrealistic .

Now, in contrast, the ending of BB was truly amazing. It built on the character’s arc and was very realistic.

reply

[–] ATG6 (3000) 2 years ago

Except Gene was never going to kill the old lady, he only wanted to scare her. Jimmy/Saul/Gene was never a killer. Scamming the rich guy with cancer was a Saul move, of course.

The switch from Saul in fine form, plea-bargaining down to 7 years, to Jimmy confessing under oath to win Kim back, was unexpected and not really set up, but it was plausible. Kim was the one person who knew him in all his facets, and he felt genuinely remorseful about messing up her life, if not for the other things he did.

reply

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Was pretty much what I expected, as I factored in Saul would have a lot of respect from crims that went way back to the phone sales etc. Sure wasn't pulling scams to trade contraband or the King of the Toilet Water Wine like I said in the *finale predictions thread, but close enough. I didn't expect an all guns blazing finale, as let's face it they did that in Breaking Bad and would just be same old same old, wasn't really going to escape either as that's what Pinkman did.

Was half expecting Saul to ask Kim if she could smuggle some of the cigarettes in for him though, and on the bus when he saw the perspiration dripping down the guys head, I did think oh there's going to be an escape. As in that guy had people coming to get him off the bus and why he was perspiring, however that was just me thinking that because other shows probably would have, so ended up glad it didn't happen really (would have been a cheap out).

However eh, the way it finished with him in the kitchen like how he liked his Cinnabon time (was his original one call so assume he liked it), was fine and left enough for me to imagine what he would be like in Prison for the rest of his life being somewhere where he was respected unlike most of his outside life.

*https://moviechat.org/tt3032476/Better-Call-Saul/62e0b2f9a0590a6ac41c6c3c/Finale-Predictions

reply

[–] jekporkins (1972) 2 years ago

I truly assumed the sweat meant the prisoner was nervous about the upcoming crash/bust out, a la The Fugitive. That would have been interesting but a little unbelievable in retrospect.

reply

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Yep that was one of the ones that came to mind.

reply

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 2 years ago

I thought the same thing. Especially when the camera shot went to show the handcuffs. I thought they would juxtapose that with their imminent freedom. Also- I noted that Jimmy called Montrose the Alcatraz of the Rockies, meaning no one could bust out of it.

reply

[–] maul (1635) 2 years ago

The finale becomes progressively more disappointing the more I think about it. Ridiculous character motivations that go against everything we've seen beforehand.

Also, I can't imagine Vince writing or even outlining something this flawed - this must have been pure Gould. The directing was also significantly worse than his penultimate episode.

reply

[–] mtxmind (3296) 2 years ago

Also, I can't imagine Vince writing or even outlining something this flawed - this must have been pure Gould. The directing was also significantly worse than his penultimate episode.

It was written by Vince & Peter. Peter directed.

reply

[–] maul (1635) 2 years ago

Gould has the sole writing credit. And yes, his directing is blatantly inferior to Vince's like I mentioned - Waterworks was a masterclass.

reply

[–] TheArgentinian (7072) 2 years ago

How about you explain why you feel that way? This isn't your personal Twitter account.

reply

[–] joej2923 (3026) 2 years ago

I agree. I enjoyed the show overall but the second half of season six went off the rails. The writers did a decent job with the origins of Saul Goodman but the Gene arc was messy. The first mistake was rigorously sticking with the Cinnabon story since there isn't that much excitement at a Cinnabon. Saul made some remark about Cinnabon in Breaking Bad BUT he didn't have to become a Cinnabon manager.

Saul Goodman loved money and it doesn't make sense that he would revere the older brother who left him $5K in the will and got him disbarred. Kim left Saul and snitched on him to the feds. Saul hasn't seen Kim in seven years and he throws away his plea deal for her.

The other odd part is Marion investigating Saul instead of preparing to get Jeff out of jail. It's not realistic for a mother to prioritize a criminal investigation over her son sitting in jail.

reply

[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 2 years ago

I seriously thought this was a troll job, he basically just gives himself up. And I seriously thought we were building up to something good

reply

[–] andreaahr (2337) 2 years ago

I agree. The finale was very lackluster and disappointing. I mean Saul confessed all his crimes and now is serving 86 years. The end. I thought Vince had more imagination than that….

reply

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 2 years ago

I was revved up for either a tragic ending or a happy one (long shot— I know). But this ending, with Jimmy in prison, effectively for life, is just a Pyrrhic victory for him. Meanwhile, Kim goes on to feel shame and guilt for the rest of her life. They remain defeated, damaged compatriots.

reply

[–] Vicar358 (22) 2 years ago

I think that while Kim will always feel guilt over Howard, she will go on to make amends through her legal pro bono work. And feel admiration for jimmy stepping up. While jimmy came to terms with his actions. He will rock the jailhouse I’m sure. I thought it was emotionally uplifting myself.

reply