MovieChat Forums > Queen Cleopatra (2023) Discussion > What did Cleopatra Look Like? Facial Rec...

What did Cleopatra Look Like? Facial Reconstructions Revealed, with History.


https://youtu.be/jRJe99IipC4


If Jada did a bit of research instead of thinking of race and color 24/7.

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How do they do facial reconstruction when Cleo’s body (tomb) has yet to be found?

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Statues, coins, etc.

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Yeah, but those ARE facial representations at that time. What’s the point of doing it 2000!years later? Cant be any more accurate than a statue commissioned when she was alive.

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That's the point: AFAIK (i might be wrong) we don't have any contemporary representations beside the coins.

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Coin wasn't a representation of Mark Anthony nor Cleopatra.
https://www.artic.edu/artworks/194522/tetradrachm-coin-portraying-queen-cleopatra-vii

Exaggerated prominent nose and jutting chin represented strength.

By pairing their faces on coinage, the rulers advertised their powerful partnership, which was so strong that Cleopatra’s profile is an exact copy of Antony’s portrait

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Be honest - you just don't like seeing contemporary reconstructions once again reiterating that she wasn't black.

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You're saying Cleo looked EXACTLY like Mark Anthony as shown on this coin? You know this coin was likely used for reference for the Berlin sculpture, right?
https://www.artic.edu/artworks/194522/tetradrachm-coin-portraying-queen-cleopatra-vii

Why not use the pretty Egyptian sculpture or does she look too racially-mixed for the bigots?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra#/media/File:Ptolemaic_Queen_(Cleopatra_VII?),_50-30_B.C.E.,_71.12.jpg

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Lol, I never said anything of the sort.

The video is mere interpretation based on current available evidence on what she may have looked like. Also, you'd be going against the Minister of Antiquities of Egypt, you know, the person who studies these things for a living and actually lives there.

Egyptian art is more symbolic rather than to represent the specific person.

Some things about Cleopatra are simply fact. That she was of Macedonian-Greek background is beyond doubt. That the Ptolemies intermarried and largely kept their bloodline Hellenic cannot be denied. That almost all of her ancestors would have been fair-skinned is also true.

Ethnicities weren’t really recorded in early Egyptian history. In Alexandria especially, there was no normative race: genetic makeup was varied as people from across the region, from Europeans to Nubians, lived and married on its lands.

To claim that Egypt had no dark-skinned people in it, or that the origins of Egyptian civilisations were fundamentally sub-Saharan African, are essentially both forms of erasure.

There are also some things about which we cannot be sure. We do not know for certain the identity of Cleopatra’s mother and the queen’s grandmothers on both sides. In fact, Alexandrians at the time referred to her father as “Nothos”, or “the Bastard”. All of this is important because the Ptolemies, including Cleopatra’s grandfather and father, were well known to have Egyptian partners and mistresses. There is a chance, therefore, that several of Cleopatra’s ancestors could have been Egyptian.

It is this enigmatic nature of Cleopatra’s grandmothers and her mother that suggests that Cleopatra may have had mixed heritage, which would have tanned her skin complexion. And as curly hair is a dominant gene, an Egyptian ancestor may have changed the Ptolemaic line in that way, too.

DNA samples recovered in Egypt from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period reveal that Egyptians had predominantly southern European and Near Eastern ancestry; sub-Saharan African ancestry didn’t exceed 15 percent in the ancient times and doesn’t exceed 21 percent in Egypt today. So it’s safe to say that even with some Egyptian heritage, in today’s terms she wouldn’t have been Black but biracial.

The Library of Alexandria was destroyed and so much of the ancient city is underwater or underground means that limited material evidence exists. This lack of physical evidence of her life adds to the vacuum that has been filled through myth and speculation.

We do know that Cleopatra, the last pharaoh, was born in Alexandria where her family had been ruling for three centuries. It is an embodiment of Greek-Egyptian hybridity that allowed Cleopatra to become a powerful uniting figure: her mix of Greek and Egyptian attire, her proficiency in the Egyptian language, and her position as the incarnation of the goddess Isis.

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The Minister can drop dead! The Arab Muslim Egyptian government is extremely racist, anti-Semitic/anti-Christian and misogynistic which colors their perspective. They are lying by telling Arabs in school, etc. that they built the pyramids when Arabs didn't arrive in Egypt until the 7th century. They lie by saying no black people exists in Egypt - they're just dark. LOL! Meanwhile, the descendants of Ancient Egyptians are discriminated against and persecuted because of their race and religion.

"Egyptian art is more symbolic rather than to represent the specific person."

Not really. Plenty of realism during the Amarna Period:
https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/3790
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefertiti_Bust#/media/File:Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg

Compare the last two of the same person. He looks the same in both pieces.

https://preview.redd.it/statue-head-of-akhenaten-dynasty-xviii-limestone-painted-v0-xkkgcw720cu81.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=062cbd1c01661cec41049b90adac0091ac8932bb

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Portrait_head_of_pharaoh_Akhenaten,_c._1340_BCE._From_Amarna,_Egypt._Neues_Museum.jpg

But, they preferred the static style which is seen throughout most of Ancient Egyptian history.

The DNA portion of your quote is misleading. The researchers were not studying racial make-up of Ancient Egyptians. Their research was about foreign migration and intermarriage limited to one heavily integrated area during the post-Roman era and population change over time:

"Egypt saw a growing number of foreigners living and working within its borders and was subjected to an almost continuous sequence of foreign domination by Libyans, Assyrians, Kushites, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks and Brits. The movement of people, goods and ideas throughout Egypt’s long history has given rise to an intricate cultural and genetic exchange and entanglement, involving themes that resonate strongly with contemporary discourse on integration and globalization."

DNA was from migrants.
Original Egyptians were black Africans. There are artifacts of inhabitants predating Egypt.

Last part deleted from your quote:
"Even Cleopatra’s foremost European biographer, Egyptology professor Joyce Tyldesley, writes that Cleopatra “possibly had some Egyptian genes” and that she is “most likely to have had dark hair and an olive or light brown complexion”.

The majority of Jada's documentary is about Cleo's life and accomplishments, not her race.

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