Best moments of the finale? - The Musketeers (2014) Discussion

[–] mddwbsst 10 years ago

I was sort of thinking they might split them all up - which they did for a moment - and then they brought them all together again, or nearly...

And that final shot of them galloping. Fabulous to see people having such fun in what they are doing.

Oh I agree.

Best moments for me:

The rescue at the beginning.

Porthos almost singlehandedly taking out all those men.

Constance's response to Varas upon there first meeting.

Milady breaking Aramis out of the cell (though Aramis's line its not a rescue let gets points).

Varas managing to keep up with the regulars in wit (I liked him, I hope he has a role in the next season.)

The Queen managing to remain her dignity when faced with death.

D'Artagnan finally marrying Constance.

Trevile become minister for War, and Athos becoming Captain of the Regiment.

And of course the final fight between Rochefort and Aramais, and the others, and then D'Artagnan. Rocheforts a sociopath, a murder and monster, but lets be honest he certainly knew how to give a memorable death one worthy of Rasputin himself, and he was pretty awesome in a fight even considering he only just lost his eye.

I've basically just described the entire plot haven't I? Well it just gives my opinion of the episode. And no need for spoilers, I mean whose going to read a thread called "Best moments of the final?" before they see the final?

My hats off to cast and the crew.

I'll be waiting to see how they manage to top this in season 3.

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[–] benelli86 10 years ago

Athos will have made an even truer enemy of Milady now. That does not bode well for the future.

I don't think that's true. They will never be enemies. You're forgetting that Athos showed up, albeit too late. He wanted to leave with her. She will no doubt return.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

Oh, I certainly agree that they're bound to each other - she said that and he didn't disagree. And they were both very sad that he couldn't go at the time she specified (oh for mobile phones, eh! "I'll be a bit late - duty - war - but I will be there!" "Okay - getting cold and hungry but I'll still be here!")- but he wasn't there and she couldn't have been happy about that.

And you're right - she's far too good a character, and their relationship is far too interesting to ditch. I think it's entirely possible she will be associated in some way with the Duke of Buckingham, next time we see her.

But on to war with France! And a lift in Athos' mood, galloping along and clearly enjoying that very much, while Milady, rejected (from her point of view) is off across the Channel.

Excellent drama, and a super finale.

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[–] benelli86 10 years ago

Agreed. I can't wait to see that happens next!

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[–] Tuppance76 10 years ago

Athos & Milady

their relationship is far too interesting to ditch.

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I hope she takes Aramis' advice to 'take death more seriously' and that her desire to be the woman she was when she was with Athos is indeed genuine. She certainly seemed heartbroken when he did not meet her to go to England with her. I don't believe that it is a manipulation on her part.

I enjoy her working WITH Athos & the other Musketeers, against a common enemy.

I have absolutely no problem with the writers reforming her character (a bit) & completely revamping her & Athos relationship.

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[–] acyancat 10 years ago

Best moment for me, Aramis decided to become a monk. Anyone read the sequel Twenty Years After knows exactly what would happen to him - he'll become 10 times more musketeer than he is now! First mission afterward, team up with Athos to break a Duke out of jail, super cool story. Hope the writer adopt some of the elements in S3.

Marc was always a wonderful actor. No matter how unintelligent his lines were, he can always deliver them with style. Just Peter's cardinal was too hard to surpass. Next season, we'll definitely need a Cardinal Mazarin.

Didn't see D'Artagnan and Constance's wedding coming.

When Athos expressed his distaste to English food, nearly LMAO. Especially this is a BBC production.

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[–] lucy72077 10 years ago

All of it. Just... all of it. This show has really become something special, I cannot wait for the next series and the way that they've set up a war with Spain. So maybe Spain itself will be the new villain now that Rochefort is gone? I'm intrigued to see how they will depict a war on a BBC budget  They'll have to be creative!!

And earlier in the series I never thought I'd be saying this, but I LOVED Milady in this episode. When she was the one to rescue Aramis I really did not see that coming, and her speech to Athos about wanting to be a better person.... THAT was the redemption I was hoping for from her, not being killed off. I like the fact that she's still choosing her own destiny but in much healthier way now. Also, I liked how she left one of her gloves behind for Athos to find, as if she hadn't completely given up hope that he would arrive and she was leaving it as a message for him. I think she understands that he loves her but that he has other obligations so I don't think she'll hate him for it.

It seemed like the King had made *some* progress at the end of the episode, in terms of maturity now that he's seen the error of his ways in blindly trusting Rochefort. I'd like to see his character grow and become wiser and more capable. And yes, the acting from everyone involved has been brilliant!!

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[–] troy08-260-862744 10 years ago

I think her redemption too speech was just a means to an end,control athos once more. Play the oh woe is me sympathy card, she has to be ambiguous , otherwise her character down,t really work.
When she busted him out of jail she was kill the guard the no reason, aramis stopped her and to,s her not to treat death so lightly.
Leopards don,t change their spots!!!!

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[–] KiplingKat-564-588001 10 years ago

I think part of her wants to believe the lie she was when she was married to Athos, but her reaction upon being confronted with the truth, killing Thomas, showed that you are right, this Leopard can't change her spots.

Confronted with the truth of her identity, any sane woman would have taken to truth to Athos and let him be angry and hope he would forgive her and they could love honestly. If he could not forgive her, she would have ridden away and started anew elsewhere. But she killed Thomas to, and I quote, "Protect our love!" (Nothing about Thomas raping her in that conversation in the burning house in S1.) We're not dealing with a woman with natural reactions.

She lies as easily as she breathes, and she kills as easily as she lies.

She blamed Athos "For becoming what you thought me to be." Yet we know from her former criminal boss she was always a cold hearted criminal, perhaps a cold hearted murderer. She just won't take responsibility for her choices.

Her time with Athos was the lie. Not what she is now. Even if they had stayed together, her true nature would have come out because people can't change just because they love someone. Just as being rejected by someone doesn't change who they are.

Athos was a fool to go after her. Granted, Burke played those scenes extremely well, but still Athos was a fool and I really don't want to have to watch him go through this again next season.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

I think the final moments of the finale show a changed Athos, so perhaps you won't have to go through this ordeal of watching him suffer for his love again.

On the other hand, he did acknowledge the truth of the statement that they were bound together for life - and their story in the book continues - so perhaps you'll have to record and fast forward?

I won't bother to go through just why I disagree with your interpretation of what we were shown about their relationship. I'll just say it wasn't just Tom Burke in those scenes, fantastic as he was - Maimie McCoy was there too, and she was just pitch-perfect as Milady changed, inch by inch, into a rather different person, nudged by Aramis and shoved by Athos.

Wonderful layers, shades of grey, complexity - whatever anyone likes to call them - but insanity? Milady? No, no. That's far too simple an explanation.

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[–] KiplingKat-564-588001 10 years ago

Uhm, in the book she dies. Impromptu trial, executioner of Lilie, big sword, whack. Head and body dumped in a river.

So that whole "bound together for life" thing doesn't have to mean both their lives.

And she is a sociopath. She's not a different person, she still blames Athos for what she did, what she "became." She can;t take responsibility for her choices. She didn't change. She just wants Athos back, she wants the lie their life was back.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

Yes, I know how she dies - in the book.

But they have more history between them - in the book.

No matter how many times you state your point, I will continue to disagree in this case, as I think it flattens out a character this set of people have worked very hard to make much more subtle and layered than that, and ignores her responses to Aramis and to Athos.

So, as I supposed we would, we shall continue to disagree. I, apparently, will continue to enjoy watching her character develop and change, and you will not enjoy Athos' responses to that and see him as just a fool.

So be it.

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[–] Matthyew_AKA_Jasonbronze 10 years ago

Liked the convo and threats between Constance and Spanish spymaster Vargas. She seems more grownup than she usually has been

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[–] lucy-loo1 10 years ago

I don't buy Constance the swordfighter in the slightest and I don't think the producers do either - that's why Vargas had to have Athos, d'Artagnan and Treville standing in front of him with swords and muskets before Constance could do her part, there wasn't anywhere for him to go. I think the writers should just drop that element of Constance altogether than do it in a half-hearted way, it comes across as daft and false to me.

The writers are trying too hard to make Constance the 'every women' than just write her as a normal, flawed character.

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[–] GladysOver 10 years ago

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed this series and especially the final episode but the one uintentionally comical aspect that sticks out in the finale is how long M'Lady was seemingly depicted as waiting for Athos....because it looked like days!

Indeed, whilst she was waiting in her carriage there was a hastily arranged marriage, a declaration of war, mobilisation and Aramis buggering off to become a monk! During that time Athos seemed to consider going to her before deciding otherwise, or fate deciding for him....

Perhaps that particular sequence could have been edited more effectively?

Regardless, it's a small gripe and as I say, it was a great episode all the same. 

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

Oh yes - that's been noted, and she certainly does have to be very patient! And what about the speed of travel between Paris and just about anywhere? A friend and I are going on the assumption that Paris is Paris, and the whole of the rest of the world is an hour away 😀. But I mean that in the kindest of fun, because you can't stop the action to have them travelling everywhere all that time, and so that's fine.

If you're interested, I'd recommend googling Red Schalarch - the reviews are affectionate and funny, and the picture for Milady waiting is very nicely done.

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[–] zorrorosso 10 years ago

Athos kissing Aramis. Hands down, the best moment (for me).

It was a very releafing moment, but probably doesn't mean that much in this series :)

I kinda cheered when Milady was gone and also the end is very uplifting.

That's all from just a very distracted first view. I want to watch the entire episode again and tell better after, there wasn't enough peace and quiet around me to catch many other things.

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[–] Little_Sparrow25 10 years ago

Best moment? The whole darn episode!

My personal favourite? The look of sheer disappointment on Milady's face when she thought Athos wasn't going to turn up... Haha, take that you murdering, selfish sociopath!

From the minute Athos had THAT look on his face at Constance's and D'Artagnan's wedding, I was shouting 'No, don't do it Athos - Don't be a fool, let her go, don't be an idiot and go crawling back to her... Have SOME self respect!' I then hoped that him stopping as he tried leaving was him making up his own mind, rather than being forced to by the Captain. OH well, hopefully this means it's an end to the moping and doe eyes and the 'woe is me!' crap, and that Athos can start moving on and lusting after a lady who has tried to kill him and his friends several times.

"The building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault." - Harry Dresden

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

They're the Cathy and Heathcliff of the show - so if you don't like their relationship, you won't like Athos and Milady.

However, many of us do, including me, and enjoy watching two of the strongest characters in the show play off each other. It's far from doe eyes woe is me - they're both far too fiery and strong for that. Like two swords striking sparks off each other, if you'll forgive the simile. I'd miss that, though I have no objection at all to seeing Athos with someone else. But he's at his best and worst with her, and from a dramatic point of view, that's pretty wonderful in my book. Which is "Wuthering Heights". I wish.

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[–] Little_Sparrow250608 10 years ago

I like Athos, very much actually... I dislike Milady, so your observation doesn't hold much water with me I'm afraid.

There are an equal number of people who DON'T enjoy watching their 'relationship', and pray that Athos sees sense and moves onto someone who isn't a self serving sociopath who has tried to kill him and his friends numerous times. I genuinely don't know why you seem to take it personally whenever someone posts an opinion conflicting your own when it concerns Athos and Milady, but just as you're entitled to state your own opinion without someone instantly popping up and shooting it down, those of us who don't enjoy the idea of Athos and Milady are entitled to do so as well.

"And butter our plain bread with delicious pain. So, you do understand a little."

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

I like the character, Athos too - very much. And the actor

I like the character, Milady - she's fascinating. I like the actor, too.

I'm not much concerned if what I observe doesn't hold much water with you.

How do you know there's an equal number of people who don't enjoy watching their relationship? I have certainly read a few, but I haven't kept any kind of count. But I have been reading any number of people who have posted that they found the kiss "hot", as the current phraseology goes. That does suggest enjoyment of the presentation of the relationship, which is, after all, a dramatic, fictional account of a troubled and troubling relationship. It is found, by some, to be fascinating. I am sure there are others who have not found it fascinating, for many reasons. That's fine with me. I was merely observing they are as fascinating and contradictory as Heathcliff and Cathy in "Wuthering Heights". Imposing modern pop psychology on figures Dumas created seems to me missing the mark with the drama of the relationship.

And I repeat - missing TO ME. That's not taking any of this "personally", which seems to imply I am affronted by anyone who posts another point of view. I am not in the least affronted. I am merely posting on a discussion board to discuss views of their relationship. No affronting going on - just discussing, and I express this in the first person because I am aware it is my opinion (though I have read and heard many others who share that opinion).

You are certainly entitled to post your opinion - I never said you weren't. But equally, and as you rather confusingly say yourself, I am entitled to pop up whenever and wherever I please to put another point of view. That's what discussion is. And posting more than two days later is hardly popping up "instantly"!

Are you truly saying that you have chosen to post on a discussion board because you want your opinion to stand without being discussed? Wouldn't you post on tumblr, where people just express liking for your post and ignore you if they disagree?

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[–] KiplingKat-564-588001 10 years ago

They're the Cathy and Heathcliff of the show

You mean a pinheaded ninny and a brutish bastard?

Yeah, I don't see that in either of the characters.

So yeah, I can like Athos just fine and still not to watch him wallow in their screaming bad relationship.

I mean, have you read what happened to Cathy and Healthcliff?

Not romantic.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

Have I read what happened to Cathy and Healthcliff? Well, no. Have I studied Cathy and Heathcliff? Well, yes, I have. And if not romantic (walking off together as ghosts is not romantic?) it is Romantic, and I personally like a spot of the Romantics, even if I personally wouldn't like to live that lifestyle. But living it is very different from watching the drama play out, and watching Heathcliff throw two families out of whack in one generation, and then watching the next generation put the families back together is fascinating.

I've said this before. Discussion is not what is happening here - you appear to see things in huge, er, screaming headlines, condemning characters as sub-human as you go. Throw out this one! Throw out that one! Then everyone can be happy happy happy! Reducing them to cartoon cutouts is not, in my view, at all helpful - it's just cocky, in the worst possible way.

Not interested, not interesting, not dramatic.

And I think that final shot, with Athos grinning, shows him not wallowing at all, but doing just what you want - is it called "moving on"? I believe it is.

I hope Milady will be back. I'm sure you don't, because she's a naughty lady, and all naughtiness must be removed from Athos' vicinity. To me, take away Athos' melancholia and you take away his dry, cynical wit too, and the relationship he has with the others. In my opinion. Not to mention the hotness and complexity of the relationship.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant just a little, but really, we have got each others' point of view, have we not? I prefer shades of grey, you like black and white. Neither is right or wrong; it's just what suits us.

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[–] lucy-loo1 10 years ago

Personally, I'd like S3 to concerntrate more on the Musketeers as Musketeers / Soliders and concerntrate less on their love lives - Athos and d'Artagnan would benefit from this especially..

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

You'd rather see them killing than loving?

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[–] olwenhill2 10 years ago

'Musketeers as Musketeers'

Totally agree. I would love to see the S1 camaraderie back.
And lets give M'lady the season off, I've had enough of her for now. Maybe a return in S4??

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[–] maudisdottir 10 years ago

She's not "naughty". She apparently made so much progress this season that she can repeatedly help the Musketeers without expecting something in return, and yet by the finale she still had to have pointed out to her that one's first instinct should not be to kill. That's a sociopath.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

I'm sorry - it was meant to be a way of characterising her as the person I was responding to seems to see her.

I think she has made a great deal of progress - and I think Aramis' point to her was a major part of that process. She was fighting as a soldier fights, and was ready to kill, but she desisted and looked very thoughtful after Aramis had crashed the guy into a pillar and then knocked him out. Major brain damage, anyone? That's a joke, by the way.

So no, wasn't a sociopath in the first place and still isn't. That's such a lazy label in any case. Consigning any of the character to cartoon status doesn't do justice to the character this show has gone to some trouble to create.

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[–] KiplingKat-564-588001 10 years ago

because she's a naughty lady, and all naughtiness must be removed from Athos' vicinity

"Naughty?"

"Naughty" would be like Flea in "Homecoming."

Milady is a sociopath who's first instincts are to lie, murder, blame others for it, and act in her own self interest.

Again, she killed his brother and seduced the hangman to spare her, killed a Spanish Ambassador and framed D'Artangnan for it, tried to kill them several times, killed without remorse for the Cardinal, burned Athos' house down just for kicks, practically gleefully tried to have a woman who just flirted with Athos burned at the stake, tried to kill Constance, took up with slavers, killed a woman for a dress, and then joked about it afterward, and was perfectly happy about being the King's mistress without any regard for Athos feelings'. There has been no longing on her part, unless she has no other option than Athos to turn to.

And as pointed out in the final episode, she still had to be pulled back from killing people just because.

That's not "naughty," that is a horrible person with a major disconnect in morality, emotional sympathy for others, self responsibility, etc. etc.

This is not a matter of seeing thing in "black and white," unless you think we should have sympathy for people like Ted Bundy. This is a matter of the writers pushing her character too far to be redeemed.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

Well, you don't get the ironic understatement either, but then, we English are probably over-fond of it.

Gah. She wasn't killing "people", she was killing a red guard, hundreds of whom appear to have died at the hands of the musketeers without a single complaint from anyone. Is it because she's female that she gets a good telling-off for killing? Not honourable enough, perhaps? Should be home bringing up babies? And what if she was telling the truth about Thomas?

And may I remind you, she has not been redeemed yet. She has moved a little way towards it, perhaps, cast doubts into Athos' mind but they're not together. He could have gone after her - he chose not to. Their co-dependency isn't healthy - but none of this adds up to someone who does not deserve to seen as human, not the monster you are over-fond of seeing.

I'm going to try even harder now to duck out of this utterly pointless discussion, bred of airy words. She is as the writers present her - Athos is as the writers present him, and I for one would be very interested to see them continue to spar - or now to take opposing sides in a war. That to me would be equally interesting, so long as Tom and Maimie are allowed further scenes together. They are after all merely presenting characters in a drama.

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[–] KiplingKat-564-588001 10 years ago

Gah. She wasn't killing "people",

And the Musketeers, and Constance, and Spanish ambassador (both of them, and framing D'Artangnan), and Ninon, and the girl for the dress?

Yeah, to her, she wasn't killing "people." She was killing objects that stood in her way.

she was killing a red guard, hundreds of whom appear to have died at the hands of the musketeers without a single complaint from anyone. Is it because she's female that she gets a good telling-off for killing? Not honourable enough, perhaps? Should be home bringing up babies?

There is a difference between being a soldier and the things Milady has done, a big difference. One is driven by duty and necessity, the other by self-interest. I don't see any of the Musketeers killing someone just because they wanted their clothes.

Accusations of sexism just because people refuse to see a sociopath as "misunderstood" is a really weak ad hominem.

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[–] catpetal-1 10 years ago

Necessity - she's driven by necessity. You chose the very word.

I was merely musing, not accusing you of anything. Note the "anyone" in the previous sentence. So no ad hominem against you personally. No need for high horse to be mounted.

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[–] KiplingKat-564-588001 10 years ago

Oh for the love of the Gods.

I'm flat broke and need to get my car fixed.

Would that excuse me from theft or murdering people to get the money to get it done?

She did it just to get a dress she thought was pretty.

When she had gold pieces to buy her way into the palace.

And you're saying that was "necessary?"

Katniss Everdeen killing people in The Hunger Games was necessary. Burning down Athos house was not necessary.

I could yet again go over the litany of evil, sorry, just evil crap that she has done (some of it quite unnecessary) that in any society, including ours, would simply not be acceptable. That would get her thrown in the heavy-security psych ward if she had a good lawyer in a state without the death penalty.

But you are not interested in that, you just want to keep making excuses for her. Which I am utterly staggered by, just as I am staggered by the people who think Christian Grey is "romantic" and not an a-hole.

And it's not McCoy's fault. She has done a fantastic job with what she was given. It's the writer's fault for pushing the character too far into "evil" to make a Heel-Face-Turn plausible. I mean, only a couple episodes prior she's kills an captured assassin to protect Rochefort. Then when she realizes Rochefort is not another Richelieu, but bat-sh*t crazy and thinks of her as disposable, *then* she turns to the Musketeers. She only turned to them when she was out of options, and still demanded money for it.

"Feminism" does not include murder, lies and arson.

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