In the movie he doesn't defend himself, for a variety of reasons, so we only hear the wifes side of the argument...He fulfilled all three of his responsibilities - career, children, and new baby. She failed her only one, her children.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
How is his wife the villain? He cheated on her. Maybe, given time, they can work things out, but he is on his way to be with a one night stand that's having his out of wedlock baby.
Keep in mind that the wife has just found out about this during the course of the movie. She is having a very understandable immediate reaction. Do you think she should have processed this in the course of an hour and a half and already decided to forgive him?
Of course we all see him as a basically good man and probably feel like she should give him another chance, but for crying out loud, it's going to take longer than 90 minutes!
How is his wife the villain?
He "patiently explained" things so she should've forgiven him right then and there? So you can do anything you want and, as soon as you say sorry, everything should be immediately forgiven? Real life doesn't work that way. They had a lot to work through which wasn't going to happen that quickly just because he felt bad for making a mistake.
Of course she thought of her own feelings as soon as he told her he cheated on her. He had badly hurt, maybe even permanently damaged, those feelings. That's all she will be for awhile is feelings.
And didn't he risk losing his family by cheating in the first place? He certainly wasn't thinking about their feelings at the time. His wife will have to wonder if she can ever trust him again. After all, if you've done it once, what's to stop you from doing it again? At this point, they will probably be better off without each other.
You sound like someone who thinks cheating isn't that big a deal.
He "patiently explained" things so she should've forgiven him right then and there?
You sound like someone who thinks cheating isn't that big a deal.
You are either very young or very naive. As long as someone says "sorry" there shouldn't be any consequences when you screw up? Why not just rob a bank and then say sorry. I'm sure, after an hour or so, the authorities will forgive you.
He's the one who disrupted his family's life by cheating which led to the mess he found himself in. His wife didn't put him there.
He's the one who disrupted his family's life by cheating
As I said, you're either very young or naive. Whatever culture you're from that tells you the wife doesn't count and should make all the sacrifices is making and keeping you that way.
Only weak men are afraid of strong women. That's why they want women to act like sheep.
It is pointless to continue a conversation with someone so narrow-minded. Good day.
As I said, you're either very young or naive.
Okay, now you look like the young idiot. I can't read anymore of your comments because it seems like you need to be spoon fed the fact that it has nothing to do with saying sorry or forgiveness. It's about finding a pragmatic solution/next step to take to avoid the children being hurt any more than they already will be after Locke tells them about what he did, which he says he plans to to in the morning on at least 2 occasions.
Your response - "SO HE SHOULD GET OFF SCOTT FREE!?"
So that went over your head.
This movie
PRAGMATIC, LOGICAL HUMANS vs EVERY STUPID BITCH THAT PUTS HER EMOTIONS FIRST
Even Star Wars had similar themes.
Oh pfft what are you, fifteen?
Cheating is cheating. If he wasn't emotionally vested then why would he do it? He cheated, that's it. He betrayed her trust, he broke his vows.
And so what, are parents supposed to force themselves to stay together through anything just for their children? That's ridiculous.
We don't know what happens afterwards. They could work things out. But he is in the wrong, not her.
If he wasn't emotionally vested then why would he do it?
[deleted]
So you often get caught?
http://TheMovieGoer.com
Forgiveness has nothing to do with it.
shareUltimately she is better off without him. Once a cheater, always a cheater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-09OhQPiIg#t=85
Yeah, that's completely false.
shareHow old are you?
This woman has had over 10 years of marriage and a child with the man. And he's not only cheated on her, he's gotten another woman pregnant.
Do you really think something like that can be sorted out in half an hour?
Better off without her? Have you ever been in a relationship?
--------------------------------------
Death is the standard breach for a complex prize.
You're being quite melodramatic, probably why you identify with the melodramatic wife.
This is why guys lie to their wives, unlike Locke who was completely honest, and his children will suffer for it because of his wife's selfishness.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
He lied to his wife for 9 months mate, by not telling her he cheated. He was honest at the time because he felt he had to atone for his mistake.
He was not honest in the first place, honest men do not cheat. Honest men do not break their vows.
He lied to his wife for 9 months
Silence is not a lie.
shareRepeating the same weak point you have doesn't make it true.
I could say Locke is selfish and dishonest for having had an affair, and that his children will suffer because of it.
He put himself in the situation he finds himself in.
his children will suffer because of it.
The children aren't a weak point, that's an idiotic statement. They're a MASSIVE point and are a MAJOR concern for Locke for the entirety of the movie. It's clear that they love their father a lot, thus in the end he realises he's already a far better man than his own father.
shareIf there's a villain it is definitely the wife. Nobody is completely innocent in this movie other than the children.
She doesn't spare a single thought for her own children, in fact, the way she locks herself away from them in the bathroom could kind of work as a metaphor for it. She indulges in her own anger and won't even discuss a fair solution. Locke doesn't expect forgiveness, all he ever wants to do is for her to wait until morning so they can clearly discuss the situation.
Second chances have nothing to do with it.
Why is the wife the villain? Nobody was a villain. Every character acted like a human being would act. Except for Locke, since he tried to Superman the entire thing on his own. I'm not even sure if the construction of the building and the .. reconstruction of his family were a success. I think at the end he kind of sort of failed two of the three things, but at least the baby was alive and he was coming for it so his main goal was sort of achieved in his mind.
shareBoth Ivan and Katrina made some poor decisions, which were self-centred and made in the heat of the moment.
In Ivan's case, he got drunk and shagged a female co-worker, which resulted in her pregnancy. Regardless of how apologetic he was, the fact that he was knew he was wrong and was attempting to take responsibility, Ivan still committed a large indiscretion. That was his decision to make, and I doubt very much that he put much thought into it.
On the other hand, we have Katrina, who is obviously and understandably upset after hearing from Ivan that he'd had an affair. I don't necessarily agree with the way she handled the situation, though. It was unfair of Katrina to put such stress on their boys by making the hasty decision to tell them their father would never be coming home. I firmly believe she needed to wait until she was less upset to make such a big decision.
When Ivan talked of a 'practical next step' (keyword there being 'practical') to me that indicated Ivan's acknowledgement and acceptance of the possibility of a huge falling out, but that there should be a larger discussion -- preferably in person, when he was less distracted. That seemed like a reasonable thing to want to do.
--
'Save me, Barry!'
I firmly believe she needed to wait until she was less upset to make such a big decision.
In this movie that takes place in real time, the "wait" was the time after she heard about what Locke did, then hung up, and then later on in the movie they spoke again.
if Katrina hadn't reacted in the way that she had, it would create far less conflict
So, your point is a woman has to tolerate a cheating husband for the sake of the children?
Let me just ask you this: if it was the opposite situation, and the wife had cheated would you still feel the same?
Also, note some things:
(1) divorce does not mean any parent has to be removed from their children, it can be made to be 50/50.
(2) having a cheating parent, even if your parents stay together, can be very traumatizing anyway. And most of the times, at some point or another, the children find out, and it´s extremely hurtful for them (sometimes more so than for the parent that was cheated on), and they can grow very resentful of this parent. In the case of the movie, considering he was going to have this child and wanted to be a proper parent, it´s a given they´d find out.
(3) there are cases in which the children themselves resent the cheated on parent for taking the other parent back, because they themselves are very angry at the cheating parent and want them "to pay". I have witnessed this first-handed.
The act of cheating in and on itself can be, and usually is, very disruptive and devastating to a family. It causes a lot of hurt, it breaks a lot of trust (including for the children, that you´re so concerned about). And not everyone can be so stoic to the point of keeping a facade of complete normalcy after they feel completely betrayed by their partner, in a attempt to keep it forever in secret from the children. I feel you´re being waaaay too simplistic on this. Women, and people in general, are not freaking care-giving ever-forgiving robots.
By the way, i don´t know where you live but it´s def NOT only in US marriages will break over cheating.
P.S.: In the case of the movie, Locke really seemed a good guy, and i personally believe there´s place there for healing and forgiveness. And maybe there was going to be, who knows? People say things in anger all the time they later reconsider. Her wife saying him not to come back does not mean at all she would not come to accept him back. This happens all the time. It´s a matter of give time and act right. And if you blame her for having acted that way in front of the children, well.. that´s what happens when you GIVE THE FREAKING NEWS to your partner when they´re basically in front of the children. The whole thing should have been done differently. Also, notice she didn´t even know if that was in fact the first time. Everybody wonders that when they receive such news. She was probably thinking he was only telling her because of the child. It´s a billion things falling like a brick in your brain. You´re taking this way too lightly.
if it was the opposite situation, and the wife had cheated would you still feel the same?
traumatizing.. hurtful...resentful ...angry...disruptive ...devastating
1. What pregnancy has to do with my first question? I asked specifically about CHEATING and your apparent "not a biggie" attitude towards it.
2. Uh. What? Do you believe children are not affected by a cheating parent? Ok. There´s really no common ground for dialogue, here. You´re really on "attack" mode and very unwilling to resonate.
1. What pregnancy has to do with my first question?
2. Do you believe children are not affected by a cheating parent?
1. A cheating husband can also produce a child, though? What´s the difference if he´s the one carrying the child on his belly? (not to mention, both can contract STDs and pass it on to the unsuspecting partner). Again, this is an issue you´re bringing up, most people´s problem with cheating isn´t only a matter of potential babies. If you´re fine with men cheating but not with women, that just brings a hypocritical (and very telling) element to your point of view.
2. Naturally kids take cue from their parents, but not only there. They live in the context of a society, or even an international society, in this era of internet and communication. There are many values and belief systems they´ll get to chose from. Mostly though, cheating is viewed much more as something wrong, something SELFISH, than something innocuous. The "culture" you´re criticizing is pretty much everybody and everywhere. This kids will probably absorb the notion this is wrong, even if their parents are discrete about it, and they won´t like it one bit. A friend of mine (the one who wishes his mother would separate) hates his father because he was constantly stepping on her mother and she just kept all submissive and long-suffering about it (basically what you seem to consider to be the appropriate response?)
3. The fact that your individual self see no problem in cheating or being cheated on, and believe hurt feelings arising from it are just "hysteria", does not invalidate the fact that most people really do very much hurt by it, and not everybody can forgive it, and i bet even in wherever it is that you live. People are very much alike anywhere.
4. Was your mother ever cheated by your father, or vice-versa? Were YOU ever cheated on? Or do you just cheat and have no issue about it? I´m asking this because i´m having a hard time believing someone who went through this would be so nonchalant about it.
Maybe you´re just more into open relationships (preferentially with no kids in the mix), but this is not for everyone, and certainly no one has the right to force their partner into one.
The "culture" you´re criticizing is pretty much everybody and everywhere.
most people really do very much hurt by it
In your little world maybe, but whether you can accept it or not, women in the same situation as the one in movie are willing and able to understand and forgive their imperfect husbands
had a chance to let her own feelings destroy her children's life, or not
Now her children will grow up without their father, but his new kid will grow up with his father. The new kid wins, because his mother isn't selfish. And that's how life works.
And ignore list it is
It's not exactly winning when you've failed to make a proper argument, but you go ahead and think that.
--
'Save me, Barry!'
Are you still here?
I invalidated your argument last week: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2692904/board/inline/240701684?d=241418082 #241418082 - One at a time, girls.
You can't invalidate an argument - you can only show it to be lacking in truth.
Even without knowing the subject at hand, I can see that you haven't done that, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to be so defensive.
I showed it to be lacking in truth, invalidating it, which is why she hasn't replied.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
It's a subjective argument. There is no absolute truth.
The fact that you think you can win a subjective argument speaks volumes for your intelligence and maturity.
I'd wager she hasn't replied because she didn't see the point of arguing with a defensive troll.
That there is my specialty :)
It's a subjective argument. There is no absolute truth.
it's about evidence,
she had none and ran away.
You have none, so now you're focusing on someone elses argument.
I win again.
it's subjective.
I'm quite familiar with how this all works
Go bump my other threads, that seems to be all you're good for.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
Defending the weak from an obvious troll is all I'm good for?
Why, thank you!
I said bump my other threads, troll.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
Do you really believe that I am the troll here?
I'm genuinely curious.
So let me get this straight... You just call anyone who disagrees with your sexist views a troll?
shareSo let me get this straight... You just call anyone who disagrees with your stupid views a sexist?
http://TheMovieGoer.com
I showed it to be lacking in truth, invalidating it, which is why she hasn't replied.
Well now you're here, and yet you avoid the post that refuted your claim.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
Sigh...I don't think that word means what you think it means. I gave you my point of view on the subject. You may disagree with it, but it doesn't mean I'm 'incorrect' as you previously stated. Perhaps you should take your issues up with Steven Knight, as he's the one who wrote the script and intended Katrina to be the character that we see (or rather, hear) in Locke.
--
'Save me, Barry!'
Incorrect. As I said before, the conflict came after the first phone call. Much later on there was the last call, where she had a chance to end the conflict, putting her children first, or to remain selfish. So her choice would only change the ending of the movie. That the movie ended the way it did is because she chose selfishness, exactly as Steven knight intended.
http://TheMovieGoer.com
"A hollow victory for a hollow person."
shareIf the wife cheated on Locke I can guarantee that he would have a discussion about how to proceed further, In fact I think he'd stay with her if she only did it once just to avoid being like his father.
You're dense, don't watch movies that have more substance than "Days of our Lives".
Damn, this old a*s post, i had forgotten about it. Anyway, calm down, you're way too worked up over this. No need for lashing out on me or calling me names.
I see no point in speculating what a fictional character would do if they were cheated on
I was speaking in broader terms to specific comments from that user, which seemed very one sided, judgmental and unfair to WOMEN (not any parent) who choose to leave - never mind the cheater (but i blocked him so i don't remember details - thank goodness, i don't need that sh*t).
In real life, some people leave, some people stay. I'm in no position to judge either decision.
Never watched Day of our Lives.
Oh, and consider yourself blocked, as measure of precaution. I have no time for people who start irrationally attacking perfect strangers on the internet and are clearly very immature and/or in dare need of some anger management/social skills lessons. So au revoir :)
It has got far too much hold on you. Let it go! And then you can go yourself, and be free.
[deleted]
I only read your first question and already think you're an idiot.
Some people would take a BULLET for the sake of their children, obviously.
Around an hour of conversation with a cheating husband? Seems pretty reasonable considering the impact her pathetic crybaby attitude would have on the children's lives.
For those that say the wife is the villain - I guess it's ok for me to
*sleep with someone else (this is the wife's fault of course)
*get her pregnant (again, the wife's fault he didn't use any protection)
*Then tell my wife all about it on the PHONE whilst I'm on my way to see the baby being delivered (how was the wife supposed to react? Tell him it's all ok? For those that say she was selfish I disagree - strong independent woman I'm my eyes)
Locke knew he had done wrong and although he's trying to do the right thing after he pretty much knew his wife wasn't gonna forgive him hence him asking her if he should drive back the next day.
Whenever I hear that phrase "strong independent woman" I want to throw up into my mouth.
What does it even mean? Any functional ADULT should be independent, and strong in what? Emotionally? What does emotional strength OR independence have to do with not forgiving a cheating spouse? And why is it of any significance that it's a woman whose behaving in this.. way you allude?
Oh right, because feminism. And this is my problem with it, any woman who considers themselves a "strong independent woman" is almost certainly not solid relationship material, because what it really translates to is "selfish, uncompromising woman".
You're not independent in a relationship and you don't HAVE to be singularly strong, marriage is about being a couple and facing things TOGETHER.
This is one of the many reasons so many men have no interest in marriage now by the way, who wants to marry a harpy who'll expect you to forgive her all her sins and provide for her but throw you under the bus the moment you make a mistake or need some help? No thanks, sounds like a bad deal to me.
Seriously people? Who stays in a broken marriage for the kids? Idiots. She didn't fail anyone. He failed his family. Why does everyone blame the woman? So sexist.
shareWhy does everyone blame the woman
Locke was horribly selfish too, yet you haven't really acknowledged that in any way.
--
'Save me, Barry!'
Locke was horribly selfish too, yet you haven't really acknowledged that in any way.
Locke was drunk and slept with a lonely, broken woman that he felt sorry for. A selfish act of pity? I don't think that's the case. Locke wasn't selfish at all, he had a moment of weakness. There IS a difference. He made a big mistake, obviously, but he was anything but selfish.
shareAt what point in the movie or even in this thread is it suggested that she stay with a cheating husband?
Locke asks her to have a conversation about a "practical next step", not forgiveness or staying with him. He obviously knows it's not going to work out between them so his concern is for the children and how to treat the situation with them in mind rather than storming off and putting their own emotions first.
Bunch of f-cking kids in this thread.
No villains in this movie.
share^ Exactly. There are no villains in the movie. It's people coping with a real drama in their own ways.
Though there is a villain in this thread. I have a feeling if the OP had a wife & she called to say she had cheated once & gotten pregnant he would not act anything like Locke does in the movie.
There. It's on the Internet. Thus it's official
You're absolutely right, of course in this culture men are villains and women are victims, always and forever.
Equality my ass.