MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > Confirmed, Rey is and always was a Mary ...

Confirmed, Rey is and always was a Mary Sue (spoilers)

posted 5 years ago by arflexit (2376)
47 replies | jump to latest

There is no other current writing term in existence to describe such a character; that is constantly the center of attention (spotlight stealing), completely overpowered and highly skilled without a backstory to justify it, extremely and inexplicably noble (to a degree that is unbelievable), immediately loved, respected and revered by the other characters to a point it overshadows other character including the established ones.

It does not matter that she is a 'Palpatine', that is not by itself a sufficient explanation for her remarkable way of just acquiring force powers when the plot calls for it, Palpatine had a master and trained for dozens of years. She never struggled to over come anything; does anyone even care that she is fighting Kylo multiple times in this movie when she has been making him look pathetic since the first movie. I was glad he finally 'beats' her in a fight (only to get freaking stabbed through the check by her a few seconds later) but it was too late to give it any real impact, and she still freaking stabs him which immediately negates his victory. Can't have the Mary Sue ever lose in any kind of substantial way now could they.

If they wanted to go with her being so powerful she becomes arrogant and out of control they needed to start it with the 2nd movie. If they wanted to show she needed to train to develope her full powers, it should have started in the 1st and continued in the 2nd. It is too little too late now.

They even have her die sacrificing herself (another characteristic of the Mary Sue trope). Only Rey is a special kind of Mary Sue so she can't stay dead, she has to be brought back so she can 'identify' as a Skywalker. I think I hate the Rey defense since 2015 even more now.

[–] thenewnexus (1911) 5 years ago

Its like they pulling out of a hat. First kylo gets in her mind and she gets the force and wipes the floor with him despite being experienced? Now she's related to Palp?

I miss Bastilla from Kotor shes a much better character than mary sue horsegirl

Johnson,Abrams and Kennedy they don't want a female to go though an arc so they give her plot armor

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Horsegirl??

[–] thenewnexus (1911) 5 years ago

Rey looks like a horsegirl hence the name horsegirl

[–] MisterE (733) 5 years ago

newnexus is into horses, he sees them everywhere.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Interesting.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I agree, any of the female characters from the Kotor series were 100 of times better than Rey. Mission had more depth, personality, believable skill set and challenges to overcome than Rey ever does in 3 movies.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Her name really needs to be the new term since she's ascended to godhood.

She's not a Mary Sue, she's a 'Rey'.

Try this:

Rey: A divine being from birth, of unknown/unclear parentage, born of royalty, born of the gods, a princess in pauper's clothing, limited only by their self perception, whose life arc or 'hero's journey' is a voyage of self discovery toward the realization that they possess unlimited power, ultimately self actualizing their own godhood.

[–] thenewnexus (1911) 5 years ago

Perfect term

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I do like the definition but I worry that it does not emphasis enough that it is an example of bad writing, and makes the character 100% unrelatable and unlikable. and that in Reys case the discovery of unlimited power and their own godhood comes at no true obstacle, never truly loses and can violate established in universe rules to achieved the godhood end.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

The funny thing is Mary Sue is actually supposed to be a satire of fan fiction fantasy, but Rey somehow exceeds even the satire version. So yeah, it might be appropriate to re-dub the term to be just Rey or "MaRey Sue" which is a nice through back to the original.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I disagree.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I disagree that you disagree. lol

but seriously with which part and why?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Hey, your disagreement with his disagreement is a microaggression!

Quick, where's the safespace thread???

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I find your use of the term microaggression to be oppressive and dismissive of my identity. I feel all violated and stuff.

if you find the safespace thread and you please share it. hahaha

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'll do better than find it, I'll create it!

https://moviechat.org/tt2527338/Star-Wars-The-Rise-of-Skywalker/5e01521915efdb738e7b730d/Star-Wars-Episode-9-SafeSpace-Thread

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

'Rey' is the spanish word for 'King'

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I've been kind of wondering if she was a tranny, that seals it.

[–] Satan2016 (25525) 5 years ago

You People are sooooo pathetic. Get a fucking life!

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

. . . you first.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Great argument, you have convinced me.

[–] Nate Adams SA23 (902) 5 years ago

I agree, get a fucking life people. What the fuck did you expect from a Star Wars movie? She was kick ass.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I was expecting the most entertaining part of the movie to be the online bitchfest surrounding it, and JooJoo delivered.

Merry Christmas!

:o)

[–] fn217phasma (70) 5 years ago

Agreed!

[–] pzogel (187) 5 years ago

Why do you hate women so much? Are you alt-right?

And by the way, it was ALL explained in the TFA novelisation. She force downloaded her powers, which makes 100% sense. See, cis scum, they even did some mansplaining for you.

[–] Juschill (808) 5 years ago

The funny thing is I can’t tell if this post is supposed to be satire or really that silly.

Well played.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

I think it's satire, but I wouldn't bet...

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

lol, yeah I can't tell either because in many ways I have seen these type of posts made in 100% seriousness.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

"Why do you hate women so much? Are you alt-right?"

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

"it was ALL explained in the TFA novelisation"

So the movie requires you to read the novelization to be able to accept the plot, that is not a good defense of the writing of the film itself.

"She force downloaded her powers"

So does Star Wars = The Matrix now? If so that is exceptionally lore breaking and demands an explanation that we now official will never have.

"which makes 100% sense"

Sure if you are watching an completely new IP that had no established rules.

" See, cis scum, they even did some mansplaining for you."

How dare you assume my gender?

[–] triplea (3577) 5 years ago

lol the novelisation because some people read the script and picked out the thousands of bs holes in it that they needed to retcon it all with a book?

Classic.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7701) 5 years ago

I seem to have the person you responded to on ignore. Probably a good thing. Frankly everything they said to you is complete bologna.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Yeah it is so over the top it has to be someone trolling. At least I hope that is the case.

[–] B1cKsurN (17430) 5 years ago

Poe's law......I CANT TELL IF SERIOUS lol.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

That's sexist bro.

Just because she's the best at, well, everything doesn't make her a Mary Sue.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

lol,

Yes, being good at everything alone does not make a character a Mary Sue; it requires other things to, such as an exaggerated amount of the plot focusing on them even over other established characters, everyone liking or respecting them immediately, or being good at things for no clear or acceptable reason. For example being able to repair the falcon by ripping out wires to bypass the compressor is not explainable by her being a scavenger that never flew that particular craft.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I was joking, yeah.

When she's better at Han Solo and Chewie at fixing the Falcon despite being new to the ship, I think we can safely say that.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

"When she's better at Han Solo and Chewie at fixing the Falcon despite being new to the ship, I think we can safely say that."

Actually being better then them would not be too much of a stretch; because if you remember the OT they are not particularly great at fixing it themselves. The issue with Rey is there is no reason given as to why she is so good at fixing it, skills at scavenging do not translate to skills at mechanics, especially not on such a customized ship as the falcon. Had they shown or said somewhere she was maintaining it for years for Unkar then we have a reason. All we know is that she says its a piece of junk (that was thrown in there for nostalgia) and that no one has flown it in years.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Han and Chewie are better at fixing the ship than anyone else. Like you pointed out, it's an unusual, customized ship and not easy to keep up and running.

It was pretty silly that Ren was able to figure out what was wrong with the ship when Han and Chewie couldn't, being a newcomer to it.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

"Han and Chewie are better at fixing the ship than anyone else"

Ah I don't know if I agree with that all the way, they are better at flying it then anyone else. Empire emphasizes pretty much the entire time they could not fix it themselves. Now that could be a result of lack of resources, but I always took it as they were not skilled enough mechanics to pull it off. Which I actually like because it humanizes tehm.

"It was pretty silly that Ren was able to figure out what was wrong with the ship when Han and Chewie couldn't, being a newcomer to it."

Yeah that is the crux of it. Han and Chewie could not fix it and this humanizes them, Rey being able to fix it without good reason does the opposite.

[–] pzogel (187) 5 years ago

You must be one of these sexist pigs who are convinced women have no capabilities or skills whatsoever. Did you even watch the movie? Here's a reminder how that scene went down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHl6Jsgq600

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

you do know Rey is not a representation of All Women right? That criticizing her is not equal to criticizing or belittling all women? If you really cannot tell the difference between a criticism of one fictional character and a misogynistic argument that say women as a whole are inferior, then you have some serious issues that you should probably seek help for.

Okay now that I watched the link, you are joking I see. That is how the scene should have played out had the film want to keep any grip on reality. God, she is so smug in those scenes where she just does everything perfectly. I wonder if that is the character or the actress.

[–] Philhelm (509) 5 years ago

Compare to Luke losing a hand and having to flee from Vader.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Actually even if you go further back than Empire Luke is constantly losing. I bring up his actual performance while piloting the x-wing in the Death Star battle. He actually does quite terrible despite his backstory as a experienced pilot. He almost crashed 2 times, is almost shot down twice needing to be saved, gets hit twice (including one that nearly destroys R2), when compared to the other pilots he might be the worse performer and has to be saved 3 times including 2 people sacrificing themselves.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Damn, you are quite the contrarian.

Luke was one of the few pilots even to survive the battle of the Death Star and managed to pull off the highly challenging shot to destroy it. He's a terrible pilot because his ship took a couple some damage during the battle?

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

What I mean is compared to other pilots he did not do very well. He is the only one to almost crash multiple times because of his inexperience. He was also shot more times than anyone else, but he was 'lucky' enough to not be shot down. He was not the only one to make the shot. Red Leader made the run successfully too but missed the shot. It is important to show that because it sets it up as possible but extremely difficult. Biggs giving his life to protect Luke and then Han coming in to save him last minute is important because it shows he was very much at risk and would not have succeeded without help. he would be dead. comparing this to Rey who does everything herself and saves herself is the demonstration of her being too powerful and too highly skilled and too good at everything.

[–] triplea (3577) 5 years ago

You are correct - Luke was just a support fighter that happened to be one of the few left at the end - He wasn't meant to make an attack run but had to since the first one failed.

Plus Obi Wan literally had to help him from beyond the grave to make the shot and he would have been toast had Han not shown up.

SO yeah, it was a victory against the odds.

I'm not sure rey even gets scratched a single time?

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

"I'm not sure rey even gets scratched a single time?"

I honestly do not think she does. She definitely never loses in any meaningful or significant way that would cause her to have to evaluate her character and grow, you know a character arc. In fact with Rey it seems like she is already arrived at everything; and it is all the other characters that have to grow to meet her and then she comes across as annoyed that the other characters just can't keep up.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] filmschooldegree (350) 5 years ago

Ma-Rey is the macguffin