MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > The intrusion of moral 'superiority' int...

The intrusion of moral 'superiority' into internet debate

posted 7 years ago by Arghhhh (804)
26 replies | jump to latest

I happen to be a connoisseur of jerks who pick fights on the internet and I like to think I've seen it all. Ever since the Internet's conception discussion has always lead to argument which turns to insult, it goes from 'You're wrong' to 'You're an idiot' to 'Fuck off' in roughly 3 posts. While this can be very annoying we've probably all done it at some point in some way and it does reflect a very human tendency to assume than anyone who doesn't agree with us is a moron. This said I've noticed something that's been creeping into the internet in the last few years that is infinitely more annoying and it is that creeping sense of *moral* superiority. It's not just that you're stupid, or that you're some other meaningless insult (geek, virgin, mother f*cker etc) now it's that you're actually morally inferior due to some entirely bullsh*t claim that you're 'racist', 'misogynistic', 'homophobic' etc.

I've been called an anti-Semite on this board for criticising JJ Abrams.
I've been accused of demonstrating 'the worst kind of toxic masculinity' for criticising Rey.
I've been accused of being 'trump-like'. For not liking a Star Wars movie.
I've yet to be called homophobic but I'm sure when Rian Johnson steps out of the closet any criticism of his films will be met with that accusation.

It seems to be part of a depressing trend in society at large to drag us back to the race/gender/superficiality obsessed past and the bitter irony is that this new piety is created by the exact same instinct that creates racism, the need to 'other', the need to view yourself as superior to your fellow humans.

If you see actual bigotry then call it out but don't presume to be able to see into the soul of your fellow posters and just somehow *know* that when they criticise a female character (written by men!) that it's really just their misogyny shining through. I'll even make it easy for you - here's some actually bigoted comments that would rightly deserve condemnation:

"I don't like Rey because she's a woman"
"I don't like Fin because he's black"
"I don't like JJA because he's a Jew"

You see how it easy it is to spot genuinely hateful comments?

So this is a message to all the psychics and witch-finder generals on these boards:

You are a part of the problem.

You are not helping make society a better place.

You are helping to whip up racial, gender and sexuality based paranoia.

And you really need to just knock it off.

[–] furiousstyles (4392) 7 years ago

i dont think this post belongs on this board

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

It's a post about the things people say on this specific board. So yes, it does.

[–] furiousstyles (4392) 7 years ago

post it on general board , it has nothing to do with the last jedi , it has nothing to do with movies , move it to the politics board

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Did you even read it?

It's about the things people say in response to the criticism of, wait for it, "The Last Jedi" - which uniquely seems to bring out this kind of behaviour.

Feel free to disagree with it but if you don't think it's relevant just ignore it.

[–] Bubbathegut (18242) 7 years ago

I have always wondered who was the first person to successfully troll someone on the internet. And how long would it take to do on dial up?

[–] mitzibishi (2013) 7 years ago

It has a lot to do with the Last Jedi and he explains why.

Add to that Ghostbusters 2017 etc

[–] Bubbathegut (18242) 7 years ago

I have realized over the years that its easier for people to be a dbag than to be nice to someone. And also no one responds to positive posts. I am also convinced that 99.9% of people on the internet are trying to troll someone.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly with your first two sentences but not with the last. I think genuine trolls - somebody who is only trying to wind you up - are incredibly rare in this day and age. It's one of the more annoying and pointless things to accuse someone of as if you really do think they're a troll the only thing you should be doing is ignoring them. So really, the only people who should ever accuse people of being trolls are trolls themselves which means you should must be a troll and I should be ignoring you. Well, too late!

[–] AckbarsCorpse (316) 7 years ago

You suck

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

No u

[–] AckbarsCorpse (316) 7 years ago

reported

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

stick your report up your arse, squid fiddler

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Yeah well, your toxic penis hates Jews and voted for Trump!

;)

As for your post...

"here's some actually bigoted comments that would rightly deserve condemnation"

To be fair, it's extremely rare for someone to openly say they're criticizing something solely due to race or gender. Most of the time, particularly with gender, they're just pushing the roles and expectations that they've become accustomed to all their life.

For example, the old fashioned expectation that a woman should be "barefoot & pregnant in the kitchen," and didn't require any college but just required a husband... that was just a basic gender role, from its own time, that people got used to. It became a problem as society moved past that and caused it to become an outdated, sexist stereotype.

Yes, there are some who promoted that view past its expiration date because they truly and consciously felt women were inferior to men, and said so, but many others (probably most) were just proceeding by what they were raised with and weren't quite ready for the "new normal."

I mean seriously, if someone says "I'm not sexist, I'm just sick of all this girl power shit," they obviously don't realize what sexism really means. That's almost as bad as "I'm not racist, but black people commit more crimes."

[–] BornRetarded (57) 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

It's a fair point Froggy but I'd say it's rare for a reason: there's not actually as many racists/misogynists around as some people would like to believe and one of the reasons for that is because they have become (rightly!) the worst things society has decided you can be. This is why it's such a tempting insult, because you get to accuse your opponent of being one of the worst things possible and whilst doing so, imply that you are the opposite of the worst thing possible.

Like I say, for years we've been calling each other stupid but now it is becoming something much more (IMO) dangerous - we're calling each other *inferior*. And over our differing opinions of a Star Wars movie!

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Like I say, for years we've been calling each other stupid but now it is becoming something much more (IMO) dangerous - we're calling each other *inferior*.

Agree completely that there has been a shift from generalized insults toward the more popular specific and political-esque insults, definitely.

But I do have to take issue with what I quoted here -- Seriously, "calling each other stupid" is EXACTLY "calling each other *inferior*" -- "Stupid" literally implies inferior intelligence compared to the person slinging the word. The inferiority insult has not changed a bit, it's just shifted in terminology.

HOWEVER, I guess you mean "morally inferior," specifically (considering the title of the topic has moral superiority in it).

Personally I'd rather be morally inferior than intellectually inferior, but that's just me. Intellectual inferiority is pretty objective... moral inferiority is basically just someone else's opinion.

Plus it's also far less effective than calling someone stupid, IMO, because a moral stance can be changed based on new insight right away. Fixing "stupid" might take real work.

So in summary: I don't see the big deal about morality-based insults as opposed to intellect-based insults. They're all just words, anyway.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Yes, you're right, I meant moral superiority but I think that does lead to infinitely worse behaviour than supposed intellectual superiority. If someone is dumber than you (or you *think* they are) well that doesn't make them a bad person, and it doesn't make you a saint but if they are *morally* inferior then people with a certain mindset find they can justify pretty much anything they want. The shittyest things throughout history didn't happen because one side thought they were smarter than the other, they happened because they thought they were morally superior. Of course, this is all just words on a forum and we're not seeing the rise of the forth Reich just yet but I just think it's a poisonous attitude to take and it's one that can spread out into the 'real world'. You call someone stupid and they're not well big deal. Call someone a racist when they're not you take away the meaning of the word and you're just helping to spread paranoia.

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 7 years ago

I study history and you are 100% correct. Nobody ever got killed because they were stupid. If you are called a racist, and people believe you are a racist, then you got a target on your back. Because racists are horrible people and a danger to society. Which means violence towards you is permitted for some people.

[–] tom8 (3119) 7 years ago

the reason for the change is the young people today that can't handle anything..... they are pussies and snowflakes. and think they are high and mighty and better than everyone else. ..... as you said yourself OP, 10 years ago insults were hurled around..... now they accuse you of being a racist homo-islamophobe, misogynist.... all those fancy words they learn in school.

kids today are simply dumber than 10 years ago, all they do is look at their fucking phone.... and learn what brain dead celebs tell them to do and say
.
kids today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j556MWGVVqI&t=1s

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog Talks to Young Voters

[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

I don't think kids are dumber than before but they are possibly more sensitive. I think we've got a generation that has been raised being told that racism is the worst thing ever while at the same time society is probably less racist than at any other point in history. They've been told that there's this evil thing that must be stamped out and so they make damn sure they can find it - even if they have to twist reality to ensure that they do.

This is a massive generalisation of course (which is never usually a good idea) but I think it's at the root of the issue. If the younger generation were around 30 years ago and could see how much more racist/sexist society was back then they would probably realise that it's not sexist to criticise a fictional character written by men, or to belittle the talents of a certain Jewish film director who happens to be the hackiest hack in history.

[–] Urogy (176) 7 years ago

BRAVO! BRAVO! Yes...... Its classic SOVIET STYLE MARXIST LENINISTS who think like they do!!! They have all "turned to the dark side" by reducing it to ONE HUMAN BEING that needs to be "exterminated" (pardon the mon-kief pun)...... The straight, Christian white male!!!! We are public enemy #1

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 7 years ago

This post is spot on. The horrible thing is that this isn't just with criticizing of movies. It with everything nowadays. You can't have a political discussion anymore without being labelled a racist. And its the same with music. whatever you are criticizing, make sure its not a person of color or a woman, or another minority or 'oppressed' group.

Its sickening. And what it does it destroy our values of healthy discussion.
I do believe you left out 1 example of the superiority complex.
You forgot to mention how you cannot criticize something if its not your own ethnicity or gender. For example, I am a straight white male. As soon as I say something about someone other than a straight white male, I get called out. Stuff like : ''how can you know about this, you are white!'' I can't remember how many times I have had to listen to that shit.
So I cannot have an opinion on something because of my race? Now who's the racist?

Anway, thanks for the post.

P.S I believe this post does belong in the TLJ section because it is about the debate on TLJ and how people are using bullshit arguments to shut up genuine criticism.

[–] ManToTrust (1663) 7 years ago

Brilliantly said. Can you post this on Medium so I’m not embarrassed to share it? Lol.

Seriously though, I’ve noticed this backwards trend into segregation and witch hunting and it’s getting me depressed, like in a way that I’m giving up on humanity.

I don’t understand why we’re moving away from evolution, we’re supposed to be less emotional and devisive as we evolve. I do know that this trend comes from journalists and academics though, you just need to spend a single day on Twitter to confirm that.

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 7 years ago

Twitter is cancerous.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Clearly a normative hetero cis white male dog whistling here.

To the stake with them sisters!

The stake made of Qu'rans at Auschwitz lit by a gay black-Asian trans person in a wheelchair with their left hand!!

I wouldn't worry Arghhhh, when these children get actually woken, as oppose to woke, they'll pretend not to be the bigots that they are and claim the Nuremberg defence like their forefathers did before them.