MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Batman & Robin is a proper film, The Las...

Batman & Robin is a proper film, The Last Jedi is not.


Since the early days of filmmaking, it was discovered that the best films were the ones that made the best narrative use of time, just like in a book. A book can't waste an audience's time with wild goose chases, neither can a film.

Whatever you may think about Batman & Robin, it is a proper film with a proper narrative, for you can't take anything out of the final cut without making it nonsensical. In The Last Jedi, there is only 30 or 40 minutes of actual necessary storyline, which is the big ship chasing the smaller ship and that's it, anything else is just nonsensical wild goose chases that doesn't need to be there. It doesn't even serve an artistic purpose because who wants to see Luke erotically enjoying green milk coming from a creature uglier than lady gaga?? His smirk to Rey must be one of the most repulsive things ever shot. It's shocking.

The dialogue is also so incredibly poor. For instance when the soldier tasted the salt and said "it's salt". Why this dialogue? Hadn't it been already established that it was a salt planet? Or would unexplained red salt be too horrific for the new dogmatic wokie generation? I don't understand it.

You don't see those glaring nonsense on Batman & Robin. Furthermore, Batman & Robin famously ended a franchise and its director is still paying for it, whereas Jedi will hit a billion in sales and Rian Johnson has been awarded a new multibillion dollar trilogy. What is wrong with today's filmgoers? Which are the same ones of 1997.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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Let's kick some ice!

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Ice to see you!

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Freeze in hell Batman.

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So batman and Robin is a proper film....oh you are funny so funny.


Thank you I needed a laugh.

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Yes, plenty of crappy movies are properly assembled... And there is a smaller subset of popular/acclaimed/beloved movies that have amateurish flaws.

Structure isn't horribly difficult. The "goose chase" stuff you talk about is like the first thing a screenwriter learns: Trim the fat, everything has to be relevant.

An irrelevant subplot will get a screenplay tossed into the trash. It's a HUGE sign of an incompetent screenwriter.

The filmgoers aren't to blame for Rian Johnson's new trilogy, either, because it was given the green light before Last Jedi even released.

It's all mind-boggling to me as well, especially as a screenwriter who is trying to get into the industry.

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The Last Jedi sets the bar even lower for big hollywood movies...

The thing is, there is already enough of a narrative that the fan rejection is soley on anti-feminist grounds rather than being a rejection of the poor structure...

To be honest, I think it's a mixture of both as well as the various other issues that are fanboy related such as the portrayal of Luke, etc.. and the usual more neurotic obsessions of the fanatics...

The Star Wars audience had already been inculcated with a consumerist and hype buying mindset towards Star Wars over decades (arguably since the first few movies)... I think the difference today is that the wider audience has been conditioned to respond in a pavlovian fashion to the same "product"... Instead of a contemplative engagged audience, we have consumers... This is clear with the comicbook movies by Marvel in particular...

Not only is there a trained audience for this Marvel heros product, but even the climax of the movies themselves is subverted by end of credit scenes and such... So the movies themselves do not linger in your memory after they end, instead you get shown what is effectively and ad for the "next attraction" ... the 2.0 version... So the film going experience is debased before you even leave the theatre!

The thing is Disney have been masters at this for decades... The rest of Hollywood seems to be catching up... A large group of the consumers are already there, arguing box office results and such rather than discussing the movies themselves...

However, not all audiences are like that... People still do appreciate films that are done well... The thing is, whether a movie gets hyped or not is usually based on it's marketing... It's only through word of mouth, forums such as this and the rare non-shill movie critic that we can find these films to enjoy...

Also, I have had quite a bit of success with things like Criterion Collection and such to get some unconventional movies or older ones on my radar...

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It's all working like a crack addiction, I've said before that people forget about the films the second the credits roll and they are already in anticipation for the next fix. Also, I feel it's a matter across the board, I feel like I haven't seen a proper film in 20 years.

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No you are just one of those people that idolizes an era and thinks it is flawless. Every era has good and bad films in it. What I find funny is that you somehow think you hold more credibility to the public than professional film critics. Rather arrogant attitude don't you think? The classic entitled attitude. This movie has to get through me first in order for anyone else to consider it great.

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take it from someone who sees a lot of films- there have been films more than proper over the last 20 years. You're talking about the modern blockbuster, which has become lazy.

I'm trying to go for an entertaining, informative youtube channel so, if you have the time, take a look. Hope you enjoy what you see and if you have any thoughts or criticisms, i'd love to hear them. Thanks in advance. Review right here- https://youtu.be/nerCnafPUm8

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get through you first? wtf are you talking about.

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When someone considers a film great that you dislike you belittle them and are condescending. A film does not need your stamp of approval in order for others to consider it a great film.

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It doesn't need yours either, and I can back up why I think it is great.

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Never said it did need my stamp of approval. I can back up why I think films are great also. There are plenty of modern films you slam that are fantastic. Thing is you're one of those people who is in love with an era and thinks there is no negativity in it. Wake up there are good and bad films in every era.

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Oh really and what films are those? And yes, there were bad films in every era, but post 2000 it's only been bad.

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Exactly my point on why you have no credibility. Since 2000 it has only been bad give me a break. Lord of the Rings trilogy, Memento, Before Sunset, Children of men, Pan's Labyrinth, No Country For Old Men, There Will Be Blood, Before Midnight, Birdman, Nightcrawler, Whiplash, among many more. Seriously I could go on for days. In your opinion it has only been bad you do not speak for the rest of the world pal. Do not try to pawn off your opinion as if it is a fact.

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So sad that you think those derivative films with their Transformers teal and orange lighting are actually good films, shows your ignorance. Like, have you even seen a film made before 1980? There is no artistry in ANY of the films that you mentioned. Literally none. But one would have to know what art is to know the difference.

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Oh the classic condescending insult I expected. You listed movies I dislike therefore you do not know cinema like me. I have seen many films before 1980 pal. Superman the movie, Star wars, Casablanca, 12 angry men, To kill a mockingbird, Citizen Kane, psycho, Alien, the Godfather, Rear Window among many more. Which Transformers movie are you speaking of? If you're speaking of the Michael Bay one then how did Memento and Before sunrise get that teal and orange from that when they predate it? Also go into detail how is there no artistry in those films I listed. Do not use labels. Saying oh lighting is bad or it's derivative is nothing more than a lazy label. Labels are lame because they don't further your point at all. I will wait for your elaboration.

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I call it Transformers lighting but the deformation originated with 2000's Oh Brother Were Art Thou, it's all been teal and orange since. There is no artistry in those films, they have literally nothing memorable about them. And your old film list is typical fanboy old film list. Go watch a Joan Crawford movie or a Garbo one, that's real art.

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Nothing memorable? According to who you? Your opinion isn't fact buddy I hate to break it to you. There is plenty of things in those films that many people find very memorable including myself. You shall not pass! That is a line that is constantly referenced by film historians, fans, and critics. Oh I've seen way more than the ones I listed bud. Thing is I knew you would discredit my list no matter what I put down. It's a way of making yourself feel better. You won't elaborate because you have no point. Derivative and lighting is all you've mustered up so far. A total child could do that step it up. I don't agree that every film has that tint either lame point.

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You're either loony tunes or a troll.


😎

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What the fuck are you talking about ? B&R a proper film and tlj is not ? B&R was an utter pile of shit , a joke of a film , I don't think you know what your talking about

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this guy has gotta be trolling. no sane person would say this.

I'm trying to go for an entertaining, informative youtube channel so, if you have the time, take a look. Hope you enjoy what you see and if you have any thoughts or criticisms, i'd love to hear them. Thanks in advance. Review right here- https://youtu.be/nerCnafPUm8

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