This blogger looks at all the "fanboys" raving about how much they hate "The Last Jedi", and does a much better job of analyzing their irrational responses than I ever could.
https://bittergertrude.com/2018/01/04/why-so-many-men-hate-the-last-jedi-but-cant-agree-on-why/
This is how the rational people see you, haters-who-call-yourselves-fanboys!
I can't believe in 2018 people actually generate their own opinions. Good on you for shutting down dissent.
shareLove it, Otter!
shareThe biggest flaw in The Last Jedi, to me, is overall poor writing, which resulted in all the problems of character and pacing.
I could list other flaws of TLJ, but it would be broken record stuff. I don't want to bore you. If you're really interested, we can get into it. But the biggest flaw, the seed from which all other flaws spring, is that the writing of The Last Jedi is bad.
The blogger says that Hamlet is sloppily constructed, politically problematic, and internally inconsistent. For me, that's a good indicator of her ability to assess the strengths of a script.
PS
I also disagree with the blog on why we should be loving the new Star Wars. I too love that Star Wars has more diversity in its cast, but that is something to applaud regardless of quality. Diversity (or lack thereof) is no kind of reason to like or dislike the artistry (or lack thereof) of a given film (or play, book, comic, etc.)
The writer doesn't insist that anyone love Star Wars, she's just analyzing the reactions of those who hate it.
Which are, I have to say, irrational enough to be entertaining in a mordant way.
When the blogger said, "It’s about gender. And, because these issues are intersectional, it’s also about race. Here’s why so many men hate The Last Jedi and– not coincidentally– why I love it," I took that as an argument that the diversity was a reason to like the new Star Wars.
shareDude, there's no accounting for people's tastes. Some people genuinely love licorice (ew), some genuinely love golf (boring!), and some genuinely love seeing diversity! I would say I like seeing genuinely diverse casts rather than loving them, but that's not why either of us like the film.
And you're nitpicking over one statement rather than addressing her larger point, which is that the white fanboys hate this film because it wasn't made for them or what Hollywood assumes to be their tastes. Well tough shit about that, the rest of us count too.
It was a post script...not a nitpick...ace made very clear his argument against the film was writing...
shareThank you, Deliciousfeet.
shareNo need buddy...her comments were way out of line...she espouses ones right to differing opinions yet rails against those whose opinions don't align with her own...
She also has a habit of not carefully reading posts, making it necessary to repeat points in the midst of debate...that is infuriating and just lazy on her behalf...she likes catchy little phrases like "fanboy" but, by her own admission, is not sure of what the definition of fanboy is...sometimes it's a fan that overly gushes love for the franchise...while other times it is to reference those who are dissatisfied with its direction. Finally...she likes to cast blanket generalizations towards those she debates...then when it is pointed out that those generalizations do not apply, she hides behind some lazy dismissive tripe about not familiarizing herself with the person she is having the conversation with??? Yet we're the assholes...
The article sounds like a bunch of straw-man fallacies. There's quite a few claims about TLJ, but the only one I have recognized in the list is "It needed a different kind of humor", meaning that slapstick humor doesn't fit the franchise.
It seems that the list is just made-up with his imaginary claims easy to beat. You don't see in the list claims about TLJ being SJW propaganda, about Rei being a Mary Sue, about whole scenes like the casino one having no purpose (at least, from the storytelling point of view), about whole situations being absurd, about Finn having no real character arc, about deus ex machina and breaking the rules of that universe (which is bad fantasy), and so on.
Classic straw-man.
No, every single "fanboy" complaint she analyzes I've seen on this forum. Maybe you yourself haven't, because I freely admit I don't keep close track of who posts what, but yes, I have seen all the stuff she discusses posted here and repeated.
And the guys inside the fanboy echo chamber think they're coolly analyzing the flaws in the script, but to those outside the echo chamber, what we see is a lot of nitpicking and a deliberate failure to admit the real reasons you don't like it.
Which is: The whining fanboys just don't emotionally connect to the new films the way you did with the old. That's all there is to it, and that's the one think the "fanboys" refuse to discuss because they try to reduce everything to logic and details. That's not what filmgoing is about, it's about feelings and emotions and being swept away into excitement and a willing suspension disbelief, or not, or loving or identifying with a character... or not. A person who says "I don't like Rey because I have a 100 point list proving she's a Mary Sue" is failing to understand their own reactions and a film as a whole, while a person who says "I don't identify with Rey and therefore the film doesn't provoke a strong emotional response" gets it. And that's the one thing I never hear from the fanboys, I hear everything but that because they don't want to analyze their own responses.
---Which is: The whining fanboys just don't emotionally connect to the new films the way you did with the old. That's all there is to it, and that's the one think the "fanboys" refuse to discuss because they try to reduce everything to logic and details. That's not what filmgoing is about, it's about feelings and emotions---
So they're "fanboys" because they refuse to discuss feelings and they insist on discuss logic and facts. Even when those feelings are based on logic and facts: the original trilogy was amazingly well crafted, and it's very often used as an example in screenwriting books. Nobody will use the modern trilogy in screenwriting books, except perhaps as an example of what NOT to do.
---A person who says "I don't like Rey because I have a 100 point list proving she's a Mary Sue" is failing to understand their own reactions and a film as a whole, while a person who says "I don't identify with Rey and therefore the film doesn't provoke a strong emotional response" gets it.---
People don't identify with Rey because she doesn't feel like a real person. And what's the logic behind that feeling? She's the perfect Mary Sue, she has NO character arc because she does everything right, no training, no struggle, no challenge involved. She has NO flaws, which doesn't make possible to have a true personality. She has NO real real connection with the other characters because she doesn't share their human limitations. She's NOT written as a person, but as a vessel for the ideal feminist woman.
It's you the one who don't get that Rey being a Mary Sue is one of the causes she doesn't provoke an emotional response inside the story.
You've been spending too much time in the fanboy echo chamber where everyone who doesn't agree that Rey is a Mary Sue etc. is shouted down or leaves in disgust with the hate and total lack of thoughtfulness.
I like Rey, other people like Rey, and I think she's had a hell of a lot of struggles. Not just to overcome her circumstances, but her own foolishness and ignorance. But you won't believe me or believe that anyone else feels the same way I do, not if you've spent enough time in the fanboy echo chamber that is these boards.
---You've been spending too much time in the fanboy echo chamber---
Let's remember that you have defined "fanboy" as focusing in logic and details instead of feelings. YOUR words, not mine.
So, well... to be honest, you're right. I'd rather prefer people who focus in logic than people who focus in feelings. It's the oldest story in the book: Intelligence vs Fanatism, Science vs Religion, Logic vs Feelings. I'd rather choose the first option. However, times are changing and Feelings and Religious Thought are becoming trendy again.
Now logic, intelligence, science are all of them part of a "fanboy echo chamber", as you have said, and you're right. It's sad, but true. :(
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What a worthless piece of junk...
shareYes, we hate The Last Jedi, because the Rose character wasn't dressed in a skimpy come-hither outfit. It all makes sense now.
Honestly, I stopped reading at that point, I was willing to give whatever counter argument the author had to propose but that just lost me. Sorry, men don't hate the film because they are misogynist we hate it because it has poorly written dialogue, poorly thought out plot points, poorly placed humour and way too many conveniences that come across as lazy.
If you'd finished the article, you might have understood is that the point is not that the fanboys hate it because Rose wears mechanic's clothes, but because the film doesn't cater to the preferences of straight white male fanboys.
And speaking as someone who isn't a straight white male, and who has to live in a world where 98% of films cater to the tastes of straight white males, my reaction is a combination of the following: Suck it up, deal, this is how the other 7/8 of the world feels when they see most movies, and tough shit.
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I know all about the history of film, and none of it means that it's a good idea to cater most films to the young white straight male demographic, as is currently being done. That is actually a stupid and self-limiting strategy, and is part of the reasons fewer films are being made today and the film industry in general is in decline.
Most human beings alive today are not actually young straight white males, and at least the people who make Disney Star Wars have caught onto that if few others have. If Disney wants money from every sort of person on Earth, and believe me they do, they have to make an effort to please the rest of us. Because the fanboys will buy tickets anyway, why should Disney make any effort to please them?
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And apparently you missed all the parts where I said "... and the white fanboys will buy tickets anyway", so Disney has no financial incetive to cater to them. It makes much more sense for Disney to put their efforts int expanding markets in Asia and among women worldwide, that's where the big bucks are.
Which I've said several hundred times, and it still hasn't sunk in to certain slow-witted brains. I'm not going to respond to you, because you just keep arguing and arguing and repeating the sane invalid points when you're wrong.
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You know that really is a pathetic point of view, not to mention racist and sexist. I love Japanese cinema and the last time I checked I'm not Japanese. The best film I've watched recently was Hedwig and the Angry Inch and I'm not trans. I'm a big fan of Scandinavian thrillers but I'm not Scandinavian. I have absolutely no need for the films I enjoy to have anything to do with my own life and I'd probably prefer they didn't, given that I tend to experience rather a lot of it as it is.
News flash for you Otter - 7/8 of the world *isn't* white... 7/8 of the world is busy making and watching movies about their own culture while also enjoying films from all over the world because they aren't a race/gender/sexuality obsessed bigot like yourself.
Well said!
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