MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Exactly what the franchise needed

Exactly what the franchise needed

posted 7 years ago by BMAASSE (15)
23 replies | jump to latest

TFA was pretty much a remake of episode IV. Fast forward to the TLJ, and everyone is upset because they didn't get to watch the Empire Strikes Back version 2.0.

I'm glad that Snoke/Sidious is dead. I'm happy that Rey's parents weren't revealed in some "I am your father" moment. It was refreshing to see Finn's plan to disable the tracker actually fail.

When Kylo killed Snoke, he also killed the ghost of Star Wars past, which apparently, is what many people were expecting to see. Well, I'm happy it all played out differently, and I'm actually looking forward to the final installment.

[–] LibHater (99) 7 years ago

Agreed on all points !

[–] Volley (3440) 7 years ago

What was not refreshing was seeing the Resistance cruiser plowing through the MSD Supremacy as if it was a superhot knife through already melted butter.

If capital ships could be used as hyperspace kamikaze weapons like that, the fight against the Empire would have been over before the Empire Strikes Back. The Rebels could literally have purchased some pleasure space yacht's, set course for the nearest KDY Imperial-Star Destroyer factory or an Imperial-class Star Destroyer itself, set the hyperspace to autopilot, and watch the fireworks.

Star Wars stayed away from this stuff in the past because of how effective it was, and to finally see it on the big screen opens a huge can of plot hole in all the previous films.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

Capital ships being used as kamikaze weapons is about as absurd as the Death Star being destroyed by having a single shot from an X wing hit it's "sweet spot". I'm sure if we wait 40 years or so, the writers of a future Star Wars anthology film can come up with an explanation as to why that kamikaze tactic worked.

All the original films had similar "plot holes if you look hard enough. We just chose to overlook them because the overall product was still great.

[–] Urogy (176) 7 years ago

Please....... Get off smoking the crack pipe!!!!!! This movie was an INSULT...... complete BLASPHEMY to all star wars lore! This was "spaceballs" part 2.....

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

You may be correct, I mean I'm not always right. But please elaborate and offer supporting details to create a convincing argument. Maybe then perhaps, I may change my mind...

[–] LibHater (99) 7 years ago

You are such a miserable loser

[–] johnmiller (4011) 7 years ago

I think it's more about the content of the movie that's driving many nuts. The way I look at it is: The new movies are Fan Fiction. George Lucas has nothing to do with it. His proposal for the new trilogy wasn't used, where he was going to go with new characters and leave the original trilogy's characters in the past.

Most complaints seem to center around the original characters and what were done with them. Personally, I think you can just take it as Fan Fiction. And, if it works for you, fine. If it doesn't, ignore it, and consider "Return of the Jedi" to be the conclusion to the series.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

But what about all the hate that the prequels received? Many people hate those more than the new episodes. I just believe that people hold the original trilogy to such a high standard that anything that comes afterwards will be looked at as subpar.

[–] johnmiller (4011) 7 years ago

I thought that were tons of great stuff in the prequels. I don't have a problem with them, and would rather watch them than a vast majority of the stuff out these days.

People forget that Lucas asked for screenwriting help from Lawrence Kasdan, who ironically went on to work on "Force Awakens." And, he asked directors like Ron Howard, who ironically went on to direct "Solo." Lucas then went on to do the writing and directing pretty much single handedly. So, yeah, that meant some awkward dialogue and goofy characters. But, I still enjoyed all of the prequels.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

I now feel like the producers play it safe with TFA. Made a movie that appealed to the masses. This film is brilliant because it uses a lot of familiar plot devices to make everyone believe the story is going to play out a certain way, but then goes in the opposite direction.

But to your point, I look at it like the James Bond franchise. It's perfectly fine to enjoy Goldfinger and also be a fan of the Daniel Craig Casino Royale entry. How many people in this day and age would dismis the latter as "fan fiction". But I do understand your point.

[–] johnmiller (4011) 7 years ago

Almost none of the Bond movies followed much, if really at all, what was in Ian Fleming's books. So, the movies had gone off on their own tangent from day one.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

With so many different directors, there were many different interpretations of the main characters.

Plus the tone of the film's vary from silly and comedic, to serious and violent.
But it would be difficult to find someone could say that any if the entries aren't "real" James Bond films. That's not how history works, and Star Wars will be no different.

[–] johnmiller (4011) 7 years ago

I think fewer and fewer fans are taking these new movies as "canon." I think these Disney "Star Wars" movies are no different than the Expanded Universe books. Those all had "Star Wars" on the front of them. But, only one out of the 100+ was "canon," and that was "Darth Plagueis." Lucas designated it as such. I think of these new films the same way.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

Time will tell...

[–] CoachGainz (453) 7 years ago

Yeah TLJ was not ESB 2.0. It didn't have walkers in it. It didn't have a Dagobah dark-side scene. It didn't have a super star destroyer overshadow the whole fleet. It didn't have the antagonist ask the protagonist to join them and rule the galaxy together. Yeah it wasn't like ESB at all.

This movie is like ESB if instead of Vader being Lukes Father which is the greatest revel of all time, Vader gets shot in the head by Han because he wasn't looking when Han pulled his blaster and fired on him.

This movie is like ESB if the walkers just show up on Hoth and don't actually shot anything.

This movie is like ESB if instead of Luke training with Yoda, Yoda decides to milk a sea cow instead.

This movie is like ESB if instead of Han and Leia having a romance that lead to the "I know line" they have a corny cringe worthy "Don't fight what you hate, save what you love" moment. Oh and Han and Leia met 6 hours ago during the Hoth evacuation.

This movie is like ESB if the Imperial fleet commanders were cartoon villains made for 5-10 yearolds.

I could go on....

[–] Irislily2014 (3) 7 years ago

I signed up right now just so I can say that this comment is perfect.

[–] grindovermatter (380) 7 years ago

So, this movie is like Empire Strikes Back if, instead of the things that happened in this movie happened, the things that happened in Empire Strikes Back happened?

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

There were elements of the film that made many people anticipate certain storylines that simply didn't occur. People wanted to see Rey train with Luke, people wanted to see her try to use the force to raise that X wing, etc...But when the movie diverged and went in a different direction, it's like all of these fan fantasies collectively got crushed at once. Truthfully, I do empathize with those who enjoyed TFA as it was, because this movie is everything that that movie wasn't.

[–] desepticon (166) 7 years ago

It's weird how you can say that and people view it as a negative. A more positive way to describe would be to say it has twists and turns and defied my expectations.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

I just think they are a lot of people who don't like the film simply because their predictions were incorrect. And based on that alone, they can't accept anything this film had to offer.

[–] Recognizer (386) 7 years ago

I feel that the misdirection was a mistake, because TFA set up a number of plot lines such that there was a reasonable expectation among fans that those threads would continue in this movie. Generally speaking, misdirection of the audience is OK, and can make a film great and memorable because things happen that you weren't expecting. But in this case, I think diverging from what was established in TFA made TLJ feel more like Rogue One (i.e. a stand-alone film) rather than Episode VIII - the next chapter in an on-going, cohesive narrative.

[–] BMAASSE (15) 7 years ago

But you honestly have no way of knowing that until the story plays out. The final film may tie everything together and provide a resolution. At least wait until then before condemning it.

[–] QueenFanUSA (3379) 7 years ago

Here, here BMA! I agree completely. It's been blown wide open.