Fixing Rey


Okay I usually focus on how much I despise the character. So for this thread i am going to suggest what I think would fix the character and still allow her to do nearly everything she does in TFA itself, most of this is going to involve her 'introduction' scene and it would be vastly different but for the rest of the film post meeting Finn the story could be exaclty the same including her being dropped off on Jakuu as a child and no need for her to have a force training background that was wiped out.

First, show her doing more than being a loner and only scavenging. Instead have her doing things like show her socializing in jobs as a pilot in between camps with scavenged goods. She is both socially 'normal' and a great pilot so they should do things to show why she is like that. Maybe show her have a few friends while on piloting jobs for Unkaar and quick little social exchanges. Like she gets back from scavenging and Unkaar only gives her 1/4 portion and says 'if you want the rest fly the parts to "Y" camp and collect payment'. Then show her doing that instead of the wasted time with a 'pilots' helmet eating by herself and staring at an old lady 'dreading' her own future. Show that she is too busy to dread anything and that is why she doesn't leave on her own. Too busy to think about leaving would make more sense than what we got, of course it would make her less sympathetic to millennials.

Next, show her doing a fighting pit for money(food). Show that she willing participates and is competent in an fighting arena; maybe even with multiple weapons. This would suggest she has being it for some time and would make her later battle prowess not only acceptable but cool. Again this would likely make her less of a sympathetic character. What is the key part of the sympathetic - pathetic.

Third, show her having some exchanges with the Church of the force or suggest she knew them and was sad to hear they were all killed. Maybe Finn could tell her that is where he was escaping from and she is saddened by this and he gets a chance to consul her, which would humanize her and give their relationship and chance to develop naturally. Also it would help making Finn look less pathetic. Also it would explain her ability to pick up the force if she had heard more stories about it previously. This does not even need to be fixed elsewhere in the film because they could suggest that though she was friends with the church of the force she did not actually believe them until Han confirms it's the truth. This would totally fix her rapid force learning. Because she would already be aware of the powers and just need to believe it and 'try' it.

Literally nothing else in the film would need to be changed. She could pilot the falcon, escape with Finn, Kick ass with a lightsaber and staff (fighting pits shows her using both), develope force abilities unusually rapidly, have well adjusted social skills, etc. I mean you could even have her fighting a Wookie in the fighting pits and talking with it showing they were rivals or something, so when she speaks to Chewie it makes sense that she would know Wookie. Story people, story is more important than lazily contrived sympathetic imagery (like the wasted marking on the wall scene). If they wanted to include those they could have. I would have been fine with the film being 10 minutes longer if they had actually fleshed out the character. And I would have been less annoyed with other lazy parts of the film because she would have been such an interesting character.

Now, even though I give fixes that would undoubtedly make her character even more 'bad ass' queue the accusations of sexism and of me having 'fragile male ego'.

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Star Wars only needs to be simple enough for children to understand.

Not tediously spoon fed to dullards, degenerates and dunces who need their hands held through they whole thing.

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Yes because exposition is not required, backgrounds not given and only intelligentsia are enlightened enough to 'get it'. I love that anytime someone points out that a characters behavior or ability does not match their background someone claims that 'you just aren't getting it' and 'not everything needs to be spoon fed'.

So tell me, if it is so obvious, why is Rey socially well adjusted when she is depicted as a loner in the first 15 minutes of the film? Why does she even bother to rescue BB-8 if she turns around and sends him alone into danger? Why is she so annoyed with BB-8 being with her, turns around tries to sell him, turns around again and decides not to? And that is just the beginning of her character. Lets get into why is she a pilot? what in her background demonstrates that would have been a required skill for her? what jobs was she doing 'flying around on the planet'?

This is not just a need for the audience to be spoon fed, this is direct contradiction in her presentation and also contradiction with the continuity of the the original story. In order for the character to work at all one needs to make a large number of assumption about her background that are in no way signified by the film itself.

For example, in order to accept that she is a competent fighter one has to assume Jakuu is a harsh environment in which she fights regularly. But this is not what the film actually suggest. The film suggest they have a relatively peaceful civilization. There is no fighting until BB-8 arrives. There is one brief argument between Rey and the other scrap collector but this is solved , inexplicably, without violence. How does one not acknowledge that she has radical mind changes without much prompt? instead of acknowledging faulty writing you immediate write of criticism as coming from "dullards, degenerates and dunces". Can't even make a single supporting argument instead you immediately go to ad hominems to discredit the critic.

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What you've described is not exposition. It's pandering to mewling simpletons.

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In your mind how is Rey not a contradictory character? Do not use another ad hominem or I will no longer reply to you. "mewling simpletons" is an ad hominem just in case you are not aware of the logic fallacy you are making. It is a form of attacking the critic and not the argument. For someone that mocks the critic in this case as a simpleton you (non)argue quite like one.

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Sorry, but the burden of proof is on you to provide a gratuitous contradiction in Rey's characterization.

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[deleted]

I think your first job is to study and understand what a contradiction is. And I don't mean contradictory to your preconceived and spurious notions.

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[deleted]

You're so efficient.

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You are so impotent.

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Sorry to disappoint you. You were looking forward to it to, weren't you?

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Was that a solicitation? Also there are multiple meanings to word "impotent". Granted you don't seem too intelligent (or maybe just ignorant of the English language) but here is the definitions for impotent:

im·po·tent
ˈimpətnt/Submit
adjective
1.
unable to take effective action; helpless or powerless.
"he was seized with an impotent anger"
synonyms: powerless, ineffective, ineffectual, inadequate, weak, feeble, useless, worthless, futile; More
2.
(of a man) abnormally unable to achieve a sexual erection.

I meant the former not the latter.

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Everybody knows. It's not just spoon feeding that you need.

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[deleted]

That's another "piss". You are obsessed.

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[deleted]

Would it help if I told you I wasn't homosexual or coporaphilic? Would that end your obsession with me?

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Since it is my post you are replying to it is more accurate to point out it is you that is obsessed with me. Also did you just assume my gender? Do you have something against people that like to be pooped on? wow are you sexist?
Check your privilege.

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Obsession looks like a 60 to 1 words per post ratio difference. That would be you to me. (I was being sarcastic when I said "efficient" earlier, by the way.)

I don't have anything against those things. I just didn't realise that enjoying them was a prerequisite for replying to your OP or they would the basis for most of your follow up posts.

If you didn't want people replying to your OP then responding to your jejune antagonism and scatological/phalliocentric tantrums then don't post them.

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[deleted]

If my sarcasm wasn't effective with you it's because you couldn't understand it. That's often the objective with sarcasm. The target is unaware. Which is why you continue to come back with verbose non-sequiturs.

And still can't provide a contradiction.

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"If my sarcasm wasn't effective with you it's because you couldn't understand it"

lol yes it couldn't be your sarcasm sucked, just assume you are clever and the world's reality is wrong. Man the type of arrogance that has to go into such a false assumption is astounding.

"That's often the objective with sarcasm. The target is unaware. "

That is not the objective of sarcasm, stupid. The objective is to make the target feel like an idiot. If they did not understand it they would not feel like an idiot. So since you don't even know what the goal of sarcasm is how can you use it effectively, dumb ass?

"And still can't provide a contradiction."

read my op and first response again, retard. It is full of the contradiction or at least seemingly contradictions I observed with the character and you refused to address my point. Pretending they weren't there doesn't mean they aren't. I may be using non-sequiturs now, but you started off with them. So who is the one that sucks at the art of arguing? It sure as hell ain't me

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There are no contradictions highlighted in your OP. Capisce?

And the point of sarcasm is first to make the target look an idiot. If they feel like and idiot too, all the better.

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"First, show her doing more than being a loner and only scavenging. Instead have her doing things like show her socializing in jobs as a pilot in between camps with scavenged goods. She is both socially 'normal' and a great pilot so they should do things to show why she is like that. Maybe show her have a few friends while on piloting jobs for Unkaar and quick little social exchanges. Like she gets back from scavenging and Unkaar only gives her 1/4 portion and says 'if you want the rest fly the parts to "Y" camp and collect payment'. Then show her doing that instead of the wasted time with a 'pilots' helmet eating by herself and staring at an old lady 'dreading' her own future. Show that she is too busy to dread anything and that is why she doesn't leave on her own. Too busy to think about leaving would make more sense than what we got, of course it would make her less sympathetic to millennials.

Next, show her doing a fighting pit for money(food). Show that she willing participates and is competent in an fighting arena; maybe even with multiple weapons. This would suggest she has being it for some time and would make her later battle prowess not only acceptable but cool. Again this would likely make her less of a sympathetic character. What is the key part of the sympathetic - pathetic.

Third, show her having some exchanges with the Church of the force or suggest she knew them and was sad to hear they were all killed. Maybe Finn could tell her that is where he was escaping from and she is saddened by this and he gets a chance to consul her, which would humanize her and give their relationship and chance to develop naturally. Also it would help making Finn look less pathetic. Also it would explain her ability to pick up the force if she had heard more stories about it previously. "

Do you not understand what contradiction means? all of these fixes are based on the contradictions or at least seemingly contradiction of the characters ability vs background.

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And your next post will have the contradictions in it, right?

A contradiction, in the sense of a storytelling flaw, means saying gratuitously opposite or mutually exclusive things without care. Not just things that aren't given a tediously laborious preamble and set up in order for them to be completely unsurprising or emotionally involving when they happen.

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[deleted]

"She is well adjusted, socially accurate, and relatively warm and quickly trusting and forgiving. "

Says you.

"Rey's ability to fly, fight, and fix things does not fit in with her being in such desperate conditions."

Says you.

Those are just your specious preconceived notions.

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"
Says you. "

ah that's the source of our disagreement. We obviously watched different movies.

"Those are just your specious preconceived notions."

I had NO preconceived notions which is why my brain did not turn off when watching the film. Apparently yours did.

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Your brain had preconceived notions of what an abandoned scavenger on Jakku (and seemingly the only human besides an old woman foreshadowing her destiny) should be like and do or not do.

If I was only capable of conceiving of those specious ideas of what that should be like in an environment I've never experienced and hasn't been shown in any of the films yet, I'd be as confused and upset as you.

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[deleted]

The film did not show us that someone like Rey in a place like Jakku can't know how to pilot any ships.

That's your preconceived notion, if not just an utterly specious and vexatious complaint.

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"The film did not show us that someone like Rey in a place like Jakku can't know how to pilot any ships."

It gave us no reason to assume someone like Rey can. In this case the burden of proof is on the one presenting the story. Not the one observing it.

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So if there's no reason to assume someone like Rey can or can't and she tells us that she can, and we therefore don't need to assume it, what's your problem sonny?

Do movies always need to prove that characters can operate ubiquitous machinery, like motor cars for example (spaceships being the equivalent in Star Wars) before they operate them? So it's a non existent problem you're so upset with.

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For example, in order to accept that she is a competent fighter one has to assume Jakuu is a harsh environment in which she fights regularly. But this is not what the film actually suggest. The film suggest they have a relatively peaceful civilization. There is no fighting until BB-8 arrives.

This just demonstrates how terrible your judgment is. According to you, this little tussle shown onscreen is the first and ONLY fight, minor or major, that Rey has ever encountered in her 15 years on Jakku. Therefore, in your universe, she doesn't know how to fight.

Why can't you take your logic all the way? Why can't you demand to know how she can walk or speak? Why can't you demand that she be portrayed as a catatonic vegetable who has to learn every little thing about taking care of herself during a 2 hour movie.

Your basic argument here is that "a woman" can't do anything unless it's explained in a very obvious way to your satisfaction.

I'm not going to address every dumb point you made, since all you make are dumb points, EVER, but the piloting is another example where you just can't pay attention. How can Rey know the Falcon so well? The guy who feeds her, who she works for, has owned the Falcon, presumably for many years. Thus, Rey has probably dealt with it and worked on it for him.

Also, it's the Star Wars universe. Piloting a ship is like knowing how to drive, in our world. Jakku isn't Saudi Arabia, women CAN fly.

It's really not that hard to pay attention and engage your mind, but you obviously want lowest-common-denominator style spoon-feeding. It's just hilarious.

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Because an airline mechanic and an airline pilot are both equally qualified to fly a plane. Yeah, that makes sense.

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Does Rey work for an airline? Is the Falcon a commercial passenger jet? Try again.



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Its an analogy, try again.

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A false one.

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Why is the analogy false?

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The Falcon is not the equivalent of a jet airliner. And it's not part of a fleet where dedicated personnel either service vehicles OR operate them.

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I see you are not the sharpest crayon in the box.

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Because your analogy is useless?

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Since you literally translate analogies then that would make you a crayon.

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Translate? You think you're using a different language? No wonder you're confused.

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I see you are not the sharpest tool in the tool shed.

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"Because an airline mechanic and an airline pilot are both equally qualified to fly a plane"

So you're fine with her being a mechanic, but not a pilot? That's pretty random. Why aren't you asking how she knows how to fix things?

I also like how you just ran with that comment when it's quite open-ended that she could have flown the Falcon before, she could have flown other ships before, etc.

Just because I said "worked on it" doesn't mean that Rey is a mechanic and only a mechanic. As I said, flying in the Star Wars universe is like driving in our world. Tossing in "airline" is only muddying up the issue because very few people in our world are pilots, but in Star Wars it's very common.

Also, being a mechanic is harder than being a driver. That's why most people know how to drive but few of them know how to work on their cars.

Amazing what a little logic will do in one's mind, isn't it?

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"Thus, Rey has probably dealt with it and worked on it for him."

Your words not mine. Why does she have to work on the Falcon? That seems pretty messed up and random.

"I also like how you just ran with that comment when it's quite open-ended that she could have flown the Falcon before, she could have flown other ships before, etc."

Its never mentioned or shown in the movie that Rey knows how to fly. It was mentioned in both movies that Luke and Anakin had previous flight experience.

"Just because I said "worked on it" doesn't mean that Rey is a mechanic and only a mechanic. As I said, flying in the Star Wars universe is like driving in our world. Tossing in "airline" is only muddying up the issue because very few people in our world are pilots, but in Star Wars it's very common."

Thats true, but again it is not mentioned or shown that she is an expert pilot and knows how to out maneuver 2 First Order Tie Fighters. How does she know all these tricks? How did she learn how to stall the Falcon in mid air? These are all extreme piloting tricks. Also there is a tarp on the Falcon which implies it is in moth balls and hasn't flown for years. Yet Rey jumps in and takes off immediately without a preflight check.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Tx.Q.d486mjej9kOcp8CxA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzQ0O2g9NDM0/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/7363c6becb23cdf888a783a612fd7159


"Also, being a mechanic is harder than being a driver. That's why most people know how to drive but few of them know how to work on their cars."

That is also true.

"Amazing what a little logic will do in one's mind, isn't it?"

There is no logic to this movie or exposition to explain anything Rey does. Rey is an expert pilot, knows how to use the Force and can wield a light saber better than a trained Sith. Rey did everything in her first movie that it took Luke and Anakin to do in their 2nd and 3rd movies.

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That sort if thing might work for a novelization, but character introductions on film have to be brief and concise - a couple of minutes in which to get the audience to like or dislike the character. Since the vast majority of people liked her after seeing a bit if a typical day in her life, I will call her introduction effective as is. Sure, it doesn't explain everything about her and her background and abilities, but it's Star Wars! All the major characters have improbable abilities!

What the filmmakers wanted to tell us was that she's living a hardscrabble life but she's a decent person and even a bit fun, and they succeeded at that... at least at first viewing. It really is ten kinds of damn shame that Disney couldn't make a film that stands up to repeat viewings (to put it politely)

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How does Rey's introduction fail to stand up after repeated viewings?

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I meant the film as a whole, that doesn't stand up to repeat viewings.

It was a lot of fun the first time around, even the second. Rey's introduction is fine even now, because it's one of the few scenes that wasn't a copy of a scene from you know what.

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What were the copied scenes that followed Rey's introduction?

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Oh you know, the bits about meeting the old man who tells them about the Force, the black-masked villain and his master who's only seen in projection, the destruction of the Death Star...

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Ok,

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I think it is effective only for those that responded emotionally and anyone thinking critically were more off put by it. Yes I acknowledge the emotional sympathetic appeal worked for many, but that does not mean it was a well written character. I would call her a well crafted manipulative tool but not a well fleshed out character.

"All the major characters have improbable abilities!"

Can we please not get into another , "but Luke and Anakin" argument? we have covered that ground million times and as far as I can see it is an argument that has been proven wrong by an abundance of evidence. I am going over only what would make the character work in the film as is, at least as far as I can see. It would not only work for novelization it would work in film too even if it is a short introduction. It is an exercise in good writing and direction which this film lacked but it is fully possible.

"What the filmmakers wanted to tell us was that she's living a hardscrabble life but she's a decent person and even a bit fun, and they succeeded at that... at least at first viewing."

I do not have a problem with that in itself but then she goes on to be hyper competent at literally everything she tries. This requires some more fleshed out background otherwise it is seemingly a contradiction and makes it very hard to accept the character in anything other than an emotional level.

Can you at least acknowledge that Rey resonated with you on an emotional level and that could make you less likely to be critical of the character?

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Yes, I responded to the character emotionally, and you seem to forget that an emotional response is absolutely vital to an enjoyable filmgoing experience. An ideal film is one where you both respond emotionally to the characters and you can nitpick about the details to your geeky heart's content and you don't find any inconsistencies or plot holes*, I think we agree on that. TFA is not that film, obviously, but the fact is that if you have to choose between caring about a character and making sure all their actions make sense, in filmmaking the caring, the emotional component us far more important than the logic. If you see a perfectly logical story and don't engage with the characters on an emotional level, you're bored and the film is a failure.

And yes, let's not get into the probability levels of previous films and other characters, as you do refuse to understand what you've viewed a thousand times. I'm willing to agree to disagree.

* Twice in my life I've had the lively experience of viewing film stories that are enjoyable in visceral, emotional ways, and which stand up to endless geek nitpicking. I refer to Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" films, and "Game of Thrones". Read some of the nitpicking overanalysis of the GoT board, it's really amazing how deep you can go with that show.

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Emotional response is important but it is not vital to cohesive story telling. I have not forgotten that most people need to respond emotionally but characters that only resonate on an emotional level are not good characters. Dom Torrito from fast and furious is designed only to resonate with younger male audience and for years was successful in that. He is still a bad character and Fast and Furious is a horridly written series.

personally I like characters that resonate emotionally naturally. When the film is trying to manipulate you into liking a character I find it almost impossible to like them. Like with the Avatar characters.

" in filmmaking the caring, the emotional component us far more important than the logic"

I am glad you agree up to this point for the most part, but this is just wrong. Emotions cloud judgement so if something is effective in clouding you judgement than you are not giving a fair and partial observation. Basically you are admitting Rey is a bad character that you like any way. and that is fine. I have no problem with that. In this case though can you see how my fixes above would really make the character better, even if less sympathetic?

"If you see a perfectly logical story and don't engage with the characters on an emotional level, you're bored and the film is a failure."

I think you are wrong. If the story is 'logical' in its characterization then one cannot help but resonate an emotional connection because the characters would feel more "real". Not realistic but they would be humanized. How can one resonate with Rey after her introduction? The rest of the film she is depicted as almost god like, so basically to 'enjoy' the character you can only access her based on the first ten minutes then make excuses for the remainder of the time.

"as you do refuse to understand what you've viewed a thousand times"

I understand all the "but Luke and Anakin" arguments and I think all the evidence of the first 6 films ...

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You know, if you genuinely think that logic is as important as your emotional connection to the characters or more so... I suspect you do not experience film the same way that most people do. For most people, emotion is central to the viewing experience, the reason they watch movies. Sometimes they just relax and let themselves believe what the characters on the screen believe.

Sorry, more later, must go.

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...Contrary to it. But I still don't want to focus on that, it is an argument for another board.

"Read some of the nitpicking overanalysis of the GoT board, it's really amazing how deep you can go with that show."

I have been over there and discussed it several times. Let me ask you something did you like the Sand Snake characters?

Edit: PS I really hate the character limit this site has for responses. It forces one to limit their content, which can sometimes make the point less effective.

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Two more points and I really must go.

1) Nobody likes the Sand Snakes, except possibly some teenage boys.

2) If you want to express yourself in great detail and at length, that doesn't mean that other people are interested in reading the results. If being succinct doesn't come naturally, be grateful for the character limit.

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^^^ This. Emotion IS story. There's no point telling a story if the it is not intended primarily to provide emotional catharsis for the characters which the audience can appreciate and experience too, at least vicariously.

Emotional truth is always, way, way more important than obsessing over literal and explicit narrative transparency (which presumes the audience's intelligence in a negative way, almost without exception) .

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"Emotion IS story"

This is patently false. Emotion is the response one should have to story. They are one and the same.

"There's no point telling a story if the it is not intended primarily to provide emotional catharsis which the audience can appreciate at least vicariously"

That would be up to the author's intent. You cannot assume their intent for them.

"Emotional truth is always, way, way more important than obsessing over literal and explicit narrative transparency (which presumes the audience's intelligence in a negative way, almost without exception) ."

I like the way you admit it is an emotional story but those that did not resonant emotionally with it are somehow less intelligent then those that did respond emotionally. Emotional intelligence is only one kind of intelligence, and in my opinion should not even be considered intelligence because it is more the antithesis of intelligence.

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If an author doesn't intend there to be an emotional catharsis then I'm not interested.

No. Reactions like the ones that a few people have to TFA are learned behaviours which are a symptom of notions of ownership of the narrative, and therefore intelligence. So they are about protecting a presumed intellectual status. A good writer leaves it up to the audience's intelligence. They don't play up to an utterly specious set of intellectual standards. If people get used to their perception of their own intellect being pandered to then they react negatively to anything that neglects to satisfy that purpose. The irony is that their solutions actually dumb the story and the audience down.

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"If an author doesn't intend there to be an emotional catharsis then I'm not interested."

But maybe someone else would be interested. Jesus, this makes so much sense. Your a complete narcissist. TFA emotionally resonated with YOU, and nothing else matters.

"
No. Reactions like the ones that a few people have to TFA are learned behaviours which are a symptom of notions of ownership of the narrative, and therefore intelligence. So they are about protecting a presumed intellectual status. A good writer leaves it up to the audience's intelligence. They don't play up to an utterly specious set of intellectual standards. If people get used to their perception of their own intellect being pandered to then they react negatively to anything that neglects to satisfy that purpose. The irony is that their solutions actually dumb the story and the audience down."

Come on now, do you honestly believe this crap? Does the phrase cognitive dissonance mean anything to you? There is a difference between subtlety and things not making sense or being lazily contrived by plot needs. Here is an example,Luke's build up of being a pilot is built up for the entire film (one might make the case that it is just as inexplicable but that would be bullshit) before he flies. Rey's reveal of being a pilot is literally seconds before she is piloting the falcon in some of the most grandiose manners ever. How can you see there and pretend this was intellectually written? you are so full of crap I think I can see it dozing from the screen.

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"But maybe someone else would be interested."

... in a movie which provides no emotional catharsis or isn't intended to?

Yeah. Sure. A tiny minority. Which is the antithesis of the traditional Star Wars audience and their attitudes.

The idea that people's intellectual values had to be satisfied before they could accept Han Solo flying the Millenium Falcon or Luke jumped into a combat spacecraft is utterly ludicrous and you know it.

I supposed you hated it when Obi-Wan explained that the force did it AFTER he used a mind trick on the troopers? That's far worse than Rey telling Finn (since he's the first person she has come across in the narrative who needs to be told this piece of info) that she's a pilot as the are running towards a yard full of potential escape vehicles.

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Be honest did you emotional resonate with Luke in the first film? I sure didn't but I still cared about the story and even his story even though I thought he was annoying. You can care about people or characters without needing to be emotionally invested. Again you are demonstrating some seriously demented arrogance.

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So by your own admission you have some emotional dysfunction as well as a some very personal intellectual challenges.

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What is your IQ and how old are you? Seriously I want to know if I am talking with someone that is mentally challenged, extreme old and suffering from Alzheimer's, or maybe someone extremely young and completely without experience?

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That person would still beat the intellectual snot out of you.

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Deflection, unable to answer? worried you've been called out? Given what i have seen of you, especially since you were unable to even realize I was speaking of 3 possible people and not one person, you could not even come up with a reasonable response to talking to a brick wall.

Seriously, if you reveal your approximate age and IQ level or at least give some credibility in your intelligence I will offer mine.

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What an odd bargain.

And it's a bit late to make the offer. By the supposed standards that you expect to be followed, you needed to have shown me you sitting an IQ test and showing me how you got your score long before ever presuming to attempt any sort of intelligent conversation. As it is you just went straight ahead with this thread and are offering to swap credentials after the fact.

Any bozo posting that kind of tripe on a marginalised copy of a defunct message board contradicts the impression that I'm supposed to have of you being capable of anything genuinely intelligent to say.

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[deleted]

You never provided an argument in the first place. You just provided a whole load of fan fiction that you believe is necessary for the audience to understand what they vast majority already understood and appreciated.

And I described that accurately in my first reply.

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They shoulda shown her working for Simon Pegg's character, just one scene of him ordering her to clean up one of his spaceships or asking her to go on errand, coulda shown a wookie or two in the background buying crap, how she learnt Jedi mind tricks in such a short time is still fruitless, that scene should of been cut and had her escaping some other way.

How about fixing Finn too? I liked the actor’s performance BUT he didn’t come across as a guy who’d been in the First Order all his life.

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IMO that doesn't significantly help MaReysue but it would still be an improvement over the lazy mess we got.

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