The ending scene | Do not read before watching the movie aka spoiler!!!

I concur, the finale absolutely ruined it for me and destroyed a character that, IMO, would have done that only if it was her last request before committing suicide or something like that, instead they turned him into a rapist in 10 seconds for writing laziness :\

LVT is making a statement about the power of sex. Many upstanding and decent men who are not consumed with sex automatically think a woman who is promiscuous or easy should never be a challenge to them. It is a statement about how people view sex and view women who are very sexual.

I think the ending was perfect.


http://thecoolestway.com

I completely agree with everything you just wrote. For me the end scene ruined the whole movie. I'm choosing to believe the story ends with seligman telling Joe that he will make sure no one disturbs her, as he walks out the door.

I have really mixed feelings about the ending. While I sort of get what LVT is trying to say by having Seligman do that, it ultimately makes Joe the evil one for killing him. She knew he was lonely, knew he was a virgin, she must have assumed he was a bit sexually confused. She didn't exactly kill him in self-defence, and murder is more morally dubious than a severely misguided sexual advance.

Not that I'm on Seligman's side or anything - that was truly a reprehensible dick move - but I don't know if killing him makes her any more sympathetic.

These bastards!

I honestly think whether or not you like the ending/think it's fitting depends on your outlook on society and life in general. If you're a misanthropic person like von Trier, who is always out to expose the most evil sides of humanity and doesn't think man has any redeeming qualities, this ending is the best thing ever. If you're more optimistic, willing to give people second chances and think people have (in general) good intentions, you hate this ending.

I'm in the first group. This film couldn't have ended any other way and it actually does make sense with the rest of the film. This is actually quite a happy ending. Sure, Seligman turns out to be a hypocrite, but Joe finally stands up for herself and says "no more". She takes matters into her own hands and seems to be "cured" of her nymphomania by refusing to have sex with him. Does she still hate herself? Yeah, probably, but she also knows she did what she had to do, for herself. She's done with pleasing others. In a way, this is the ultimate feminist message. It also shows the beautiful juxtaposition of Seligman possessing a great deal of knowledge from literature and other material, but having little life experience and Joe who is basically the exact opposite (but still very intelligent in her own right).

It's also Lars giving the audience a big middle finger because he knows people love traditional happy endings. Lars being...well...Lars, he hates these things. He forces you to think and basically make up your own ending. This is why the screen fades to black while the last scene is still going on. It's really obvious what's going on, but he's not showing it all because he wants people to figure it out for themselves. Not everything has to be shown, no matter how painfully obvious it is.

Like others have said, I think it's a very typical Von Trier ending. Von Trier often builds up characters whom we can empathize with, then turns the tables in the final act out of his sheer disgust for humanity. In some ways it reminded me a little of Dogville: the villagers showed human courtesy and generosity, then became cruel and abhorrent. Kidman's character was deeply sympathetic up until the final act, then ordered the deaths of the entire village (including the children) by her gangster father.

I can only think of one film he's made where the character is 100% sympathetic, which would be Dancer in the Dark. I guess you could include Breaking the Waves as well.

You people have no sense for tragedy. There was a gun, it had to be used, so she could not escape her fate. She had to become a murderer also. She couldn't be left to get away with that syrupy uplifting speech.

Wow! I'm reading everyone's varying opinions and although I may not agree with all of them they provide insights into perspectives I hadn't noticed while watching the film.

It took me a good 30-40 seconds after hearing the gunshot to actually process the meaning behind it rather than shrug it off as a shock moment. The way I took it was both Joe and Seligman awakened a new knowledge within the other that had previously laid dormant or was completely absent until now. Both of them are striving to change and their first steps at doing so are raw and crude. For Seligman, it was an awakened sexual desire that he had subconsciously repressed all his life (similar to Joe's tale about the pedophile) and for Joe it was taking ownership of her sexual desire (instead of letting it control her) at all costs which in this case was resorting to violence. It was a fitting arc for both characters and did not breach the integrity of the film.


"Nobody can hear you. Nobody cares about you. Nothing will come of this."