The ending scene | Do not read before watching the movie aka spoiler!!! - Nymphomaniac: Vol. II (2014) Discussion

[–] askerb 11 years ago

I've mixed thoughts on the ending as well. However, I do believe that it is a possible scenario that Seligman would act like he did. I'm not saying it is the most realistic, but is definitely possible. The man had had pretty much been alone his entire life as a virgin. For the first time, he actually got to spend time with a woman, who opened up for him. He must somehow have felt a sexual attraction with her due to this very reason.

It's comparable to Tom's behaviour in Dogville "What really lies beneath.."

This could be the reason for doing what he did.

But, another reason that I've thought of, could be that Lars von Trier wanted to show, in a feminist way, how long we will go just for sex. How much of an importance it has become for us, and how much men will constantly lie just to get in the pants of one another. This could very much be in contrast to Joe, who after all was honest when she wanted to have sex.

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[–] Overmarz87 11 years ago

Good points. I think because Sarsgards character is a loner who had only read about sex, he was powerless when faced with a real woman who is the personification of sex.

Although, it's quite a turn for him to say, nobody will disturb you, then walk right back into the room with his cock out.

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[–] ZaZeus 11 years ago

He clearly wanted to know what sex was like on a non-sexual level, so I don't understand why he hasn't just paid a whore for her services to get the experience. I agree that what he tried to do with Joe was out of character and disrespectful toward her when the entire time he was being a gentleman about the situation and her story. However, that aside, the way it was filmed was well done.

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[–] flickfix 10 years ago

Lars von Trier's film can't be taken literally. Seligman is a representation of something, not a character who's been developed overtime in a narrative.

For Joe, sexual experiences are life experiences, which includes love, joy, suffering. For those who can't see it as such, would learn from what society speaks, justifying sexual experiences as religious, mythology, and science rhetoric, rather than personal life experiences. So despite those sexually liberated had been perfectly honest to reveal their most personal with no facade to hide from, the most that society is capable of understanding is only this: she's been sleeping around, so any man can get sex from her. Which is to judge, not to understand.

For Joe, there's no hope in relying on any form of understanding. The only way she can truly be free, either to be a nymph or to be celibate, is to rid of relying her source of comfort and justification that does not come within her. Because the world around her will never understand, it only judges.

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[–] CasseroleWorshipper 11 years ago

I'm not sure about the ending either. I guess we don't learn enough about Seligman to completely believe such actions, but I believe them to be in tone with the film's primary messages, one of them being that we're all sexual beings by default.
I don't mean to impose, but I am the Ocean.

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[–] Lethal_007 11 years ago

I do agree it wasn't the perfect ending. For me the perfect ending would be when she turn off the light, finishing the story right there, on a positive note after all the sometimes shocking things we've witnessed over the last 8 chapters.

But, we have to realize LVT has a very negative take on humans and their motivations... As far as I'm concerned, due to being a virgin and taking into consideration some of the unbelievable things he was being told by Joe, without showing a single bit of disgust apart from some remarks whenever he disagreed with something Joe did, he might well have been pondering it maybe not from the get go, but when he realized Joe was indeed a very troubled person.

In a very ordinary day, Joe might have had sex with Seligman, since she recovered her libido well before meeting him. But the irony lies in the fact that she decided to end her ways EXACTLY after telling her life story to a man who - unlike many others throughout her life - had not objectify her, but rather helped her in a moment of need. Her friend. Her first and probably, as she says, only friend.

That very last scene is LVT middle finger to the audience. It's his way of saying there is no good in human beings. There is no one, no matter how good of a person you are, how cult, intelligent or reasonable, no one is capable of being free from some kind of "mind corruption"; there is no one capable of living without sinful thoughts, without ulterior motives. I do not think alike, but it's LVT gloom and doom view of mankind.

By saying "You've slept with a thousand man, why not sleep with me too?" was a giveaway. In the end he didn't give a flying f@ck about her story. Joe was just an easy mean to his end. He felt her weakness and went for it. He paid the ultimate price.

Again, I don't think it was the best ending, but it sure as hell was a Lars von Trier ending.

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[–] luvie2003 11 years ago

This scene is a prime example about society, and what society thinks of women. The Seligman character was very intelligent but he thought since Joe slept with thousands of men, why not sleep with him, indicted that some men think that just because a woman has slept with many people, it is okay or they "should" sleep with them. Seligman was about to rape Joe (doesn't matter if he was aroused or not), and Joe said no. No one has the right to rape anyone, no matter if they have slept with thousands of people or not.

Von Trier was making a powerful statement, a powerful social statement with the ending of this film. And I am glad it faded to black before your she shot him. And Charlotte's rendition of "Hey Joe" worked perfectly for the ending.

I admire Lars for making this film.

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[–] deadcandance-3 11 years ago

I believe Trier tried to show that no one understands her. Seligman said in the film that he was the right person to understand her, and in the end we did see that she was indeed alone.

I also think Trier used that scene to destroy tender emotion. All through the film every time the story was more sensitive or emotional, Trier always did something to destroy it, for example when we thought P story was heartwarming and Seligman comment about it, Joe replied "well if you think that, you're not understanding my story" and it ended like it did.

Every time tender emotion appeared Trier killed it. When we thought Seligman was almost this father figure to her, understanding, cultured, protective, and so on, he reacted like that.

That was my understanding of the film and i was ok with that scene. Actually i loved it. The problem i had with the ending is really the last seconds when we hear a gun firing ... that to me was unrealistic and unnecessary. Specially because minutes before she said she was glad she wasn't a murderer and didn't kill Jerome.

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[–] WaltGoodman 11 years ago

If she was ready to kill Jerome because of how much he hurt her, then she could logically be twice as hurt by Seligman (her only friend) trying to rape her and ultimately treating her as nothing more than a nymphomaniac.

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[–] rcsc3 11 years ago

Well he didn't have an erection during this scene, so he could still be asexual and just trying? making trying to make a connection with her stories or just trying to be there for her?

IF he was going to rape or take advantage and do for sexual reasons, he'd probe be erect :/

I Sympathise with Lars Von Trier.

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[–] zheffner 11 years ago

I believe its just animal nature. He did say in Vol.1 that he was interested based on curiosity. He seemed to be a introverted intellect and maybe was too shy to approach women. being so far in life and still a virgin he probably thought this was his only option. however, I will agree that it seemed forced and out of character. Obviously thats the point to convey that we are slaves to our bodies.

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[–] abenrod 11 years ago

I believe he contradicted its own movie with that ending.

Why bother building a character like Seligman who is the exact opposite of Joe and worked perfectly as the pragmatical counterpart (with a lot of symbolism) to her story, including a empowering speech towards the end about the struggle of being a woman and then simplify everything by saying "oh, but men are animal! of course he will try to rape her!"

I agree with you, it was unrealistic and not a good ending at all to a (otherwise) great movie (including Vol I and II).

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[–] ixusillwrath 11 years ago

You saw him trying to rape her? I saw her shoot him and rob him after knowingly seduce him. Perhaps he just put that in to Rorshach his audience.

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[–] RipCity69 11 years ago

It looked very close to rape. It did not start off consensually. He asks the question when she wakes up. But look at it from Joe's point of view. She woke up, saw him with his dick out, and probably thought he was trying to rape her.

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[–] abenrod 11 years ago

I believe he contradicted its own movie with that ending.

Why bother building a character like Seligman who is the exact opposite of Joe and worked perfectly as the pragmatical counterpart (with a lot of symbolism) to her story, including a empowering speech towards the end about the struggle of being a woman and then simplify everything by saying "oh, but men are animal! of course he will try to rape her!"

I agree with you, it was unrealistic and not a good ending at all to a (otherwise) great movie (including Vol I and II).

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