So, am I the only African person who has watched this film and wondered why the two 'brothers' were speaking in two completely different languages?! One was speaking Twi, a language from Ghana, and god knows what the other one was speaking. 99.99% of people watching wouldn't have noticed, but of course it really irritated me. But I guess Africans are just Africans.....
shareOnly speaking fluent english and some spanish I wasn't aware of this oversight. Definitely would of liked the choice of subtitles even though everyone's body language/activitys made it very clear what was going on.
shareYes and I'm sure not a single person on set (including the African actors themselves) brought that up!
You ever consider that it was intentional (possibly so as not to be easily interpreted by some viewers)? Or maybe, get this, there are interchangeable dialects in some parts of Africa like there are in many other countries (Spain being a good example). I suspect they're different dialects, not languages.
Wow. How can I respond without using obscenities? They are definitely not different dialects. As someone who actually knows something about one of the languages they are speaking, I can tell the difference. Plus, get this, Africa is a continent not a country. Comparing it to Spain is completely ridiculous, not to mention insulting.
How do you know they're not from the same country?
My girlfriend's from Ghana and I've had friends from Zimbabwe, South Africa and Nigeria, so I'm not talking out my ass. In fact it my was girlfriend who suggested the different dialects.
I never said that they couldn't be from the same country (although I do think it's unlikely) - you were the one who compared Africa to a country. There are many different languages spoken in Ghana so theoretically they could both be Ghanaian. I don't know every language in Ghana but I do know one of them - and I know that only one of the men was speaking it. The other man was speaking something entirely different, not a different dialect, but a different language. Which is odd for two characters who are supposed to be brothers.
shareBrothers? She says he brought "his brother" but first:
- She could never know what was their relation because she didn't understand anything.
- She probably say brother not because she thought it, but because she was a white woman that called African people "negro", so she probably used the term "brother" that way, "they're black, they're 'brothers'". So probably she didn't actually think they were blood related.
brother
/ˈbrʌð ər or for 9, ˈbrʌðˈɜr/
(...)
6.
brothers, all members of a particular racial or ethnic group, or of the human race in general:
All men are brothers.
Even as just friends, it doesn't make a lot of sense that they were speaking different languages to each other, if OP is correct.
shareI wasn't answering to that aspect there really, just that they were reading too much into the "brother" thing when it's absolutetely impossible she knew their relation, she just says "brothers" because she thinks it or a figure of speech.
Anyway, I know you can talk to someone in one language and he answers in another language and it's not that unusual, specially with close languages. Spanish, Portuguese, Catalonian, are all different languages, I can speak Spanish but I couldn't say anything in Portuguese or Catalonian, yet I could have a conversation with a decent understanding with people in those two languages.
I mean, if the languages in the film are very different (for example, a difference like Spanish-English) then ok, it's very difficult to believe. If the difference is like Spanish-Portuguese then I buy it completely. In fact, series Bron/Broen has one Danish and one Swedish as main characters, all the time talking to each other (each one of them in their language). But maybe "nordic people is just nordic people"... oh, wait, it's actually a series made for them, is not racism. But I've seen people saying that, when made for US tv-series Mr. Robot, was racist (because you know, they don't get the difference between those two languages).
Also, we forget the possibility they know each other language and speak in whatever they feel more comfortable, I could easily talk in Spanish to someone that's speaking English if he understands Spanish, and we could have a conversation like that (though probably every once in a while we would both say pieces in the other language of course).
if OP is correct.
Brothers are usually from the same country. I suppose there could be some sort of elaborate separated-at-birth-and-recently-reunited subplot, but I think it's safe to expect that siblings would speak the same language.
shareSo ask yourself this: do you think Von Trier (and everyone else involved) is lazy enough not to have them speaking the same language without good reason?
shareI think Von Trier and everyone else involved simply didn't realise. Did you notice before this thread? In all the discussions about this notorious scene on here and elsewhere, has anyone actually translated what they are saying?
This wasn't a high budget film so I doubt they got someone in to script the scene. The dialogue wasn't supposed to be what you remembered. They just relied on the actors to improvise and were happy because the body language of the actors conveys what the audience assumes they are saying - and what the voice over tells us.
What the man I understood was saying did make sense in the context of scene. If I remember correctly it was along the lines of "You go here, go here, no I don't want to hear you say that, no no no, I don't like that, I will go here" etc.
Comparing it to Spain is completely ridiculous, not to mention insulting.
Do you know what they said? I'm quite curious to know, and I've searched around the internet and can't find anyone who knows what was said. You're the first person I've found who even knows the language(s) they speak
Given that you noticed they were speaking different languages, however, I would guess the "conversation" was nonsensical (i.e. random phrases)
Joe called them "brothers". So her character thought they were brothers (or just used the term). They don't need to be really related to each other. So why wouldn't they come from different countries and just happen to understand both languages? I doubt the actors didn't release that they were talking in two different languages.
shareYes, of course the actors knew they were speaking different languages. My point is that nobody else noticed, or cared.
sharePerhaps brothers from different mothers? Half brothers?
shareI've no idea but I have this theory that von Trier just wanted the scene to sound natural so maybe he suggested that the actors speak whatever language is their first language, and that happened to be those two different languages?
BTW what was the guy speaking the language from Ghana saying?
It was along the lines of "You go here, go here, no I don't want to hear you say that, no no no, I don't like that, I will go here" etc. He did make sense in the context of the scene.
shareVon Trier is such a troll that he probably didn't even care or actually would have liked to have them speak different languages in the hopes of provoking people who might recognize the disparity.
shareI can picture myself talking in Spanish to an English that is talking English to me and understands Spanish.
I mean, as long as we understand each other...
For example, just happened to me I read about it yesterday. I'm watching the TV-Series "Mr. Robot" and two characters (a married couple) talk to each other in Danish (her) and Swedish (him) (sort of what happens in TV-Series "Bron|Broen" where the two main characters speak Danish and Swedish too). Those are close languages... but different anyway, like would be me talking in Spanish to a Portuguese.
So well, I don't think it has too be so irritating and I don't think Danish/Swedish get irritated because in Mr. Robot it seems Americans think "Scandinavian are Scandinavian".
I don't speak any African language, and I could tell the skinny dude had no idea what he was talking about. Obviously he was making stuff up phonetically and it sounded ridiculous. The whole scene was probably the most ridiculous of the whole movie and I don't think it was meant to be.
For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco