MovieChat Forums > Nymphomaniac: Vol. II (2014) Discussion > Perfect Ending, there is a Seligman in e...

Perfect Ending, there is a Seligman in every guy


Although we don't have any details about Mr. Seligman, we know enough about him to understand what type of person he is. As a guy, I actually believe that all man have some form of Seligmanism in them. Most of us are sincere but sometimes our sexual desires overpower us.

However, this is a very extreem scenario, in which Mr. Seligman actually convinced himself that he is a-sexual in order not to be confronted with the fact that he is a loner disparately yearning for human contact (just look at his living conditions and the fact that he is still a virgin at age 65). Instead he hides from humanity behind his books and intellectuality.

Joe is his complete opposite. She has lived life so hard that her lady parts don't even work anymore. This explains Mr. Seligman's odd and out of place metaphors, that he uses to relate to her story as he really can't.

For the first time in his live, he finely has the urge and the courage to act on his sexual desires because of the close connection they forced. However, without any experience in human contact he seriously lacks the social skills on how to approach a girl in such a situation.

Joe is of course furious. Not only did he try raping her when she was most vulnerable, but she also feels extremely betrayed by the first person she actually trusted as a friend, proving to her that society doesn't understand her.

In reality Mr. Seligman's sexual and social skills are still stuck on "teenager" level, something he was able to hide with his intellectuality. Again the opposite, Joe's ration thinking is limited expecting a total stranger to truly care for her. At the end of the day, they simply didn't understand each other like most of us in life and in this case the result was pretty deadly.

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[deleted]

I'm totally agree with you and I'm very happy because that ending means the old Lars Von Trier is COMING BACK. :D Way out, complacency for the new viewers!

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I agree with you and I saw it coming, the woman who *beep* thousands of men denies sex to a 65 years old virgin who became obsessed with the idea of finally having sex after listening to her and turns into a kind of urges-driven monster forgetting all about his prudery and violates her trust and friendship by approaching her sexually which gets him eventually shot, that's *beep* hilarious in terms of irony and human nature, I can imagine his surprised face when she pointed the gun at him and he shouted in disbelief, "But you *beep* thousands of men!" - "so why not me, who has been so nice to you?" would have been the next thing to say if he had gotten the chance, it's also ironic because he meets the ultimate nymphomaniac right at the time when she is completely damaged and decides to swear off her addiction for good, a decision he took great part in helping her to form and later fails at hitting on her, furthermore the entire time he tries to convince her that she isn't really bad and tries to find excuses for her behavior and then he himself gives her the opportunity to prove her point by shooting him thus becoming a murderer.

Uncle Trier demonstrated in the persona of Seligman the archetype of a perfect loser who never really has been happy in his life and the moment he tried to come out of his nut shell he completely messed up and got shot.
He also very accurately showed that no man can meet such a woman and listen to her story without getting sexually aroused.
I think the message of the movie is simply that being a nymphomaniac at least means that you're having a lot of sex which in any case is better than dying a virgin.


"Some people are immune to good advice."
-Saul Goodman

"I ignore pathetic trolls"

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Uncle Trier demonstrated in the persona of Seligman the archetype of a perfect loser who never really has been happy in his life and the moment he tried to come out of his nut shell he completely messed up and got shot.


So a 65 year old virgin man who likes books who you have no idea about how he lives and what he lived and one out of a thousand reason lives in a crappy place is automatically a loser why? Not even a loser but a "perfect loser"?

The way you described the ending above that silly part is great, but that's how you described the unlikeliness of the situation, not a perfect loser. You simply described something well, but then you failed to describe your own description.

And every sane man would know that trying to rape a woman in such situation would get you killed 100%. Absolutely. Not that any other way of it is acceptable. He could very well ask to have sex with her a long time ago. Like maybe some time before helping her overcome her addiction?!

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So a 65 year old virgin man who likes books who you have no idea about how he lives and what he lived and one out of a thousand reason lives in a crappy place is automatically a loser why? Not even a loser but a "perfect loser"?


Of course being a virgin with 65 doesn't automatically make you a loser if and only if let's say you consciously decided to swear off sex and live a life devoted to books, however, in the context of the movie we are given certain clues that invoke the image of a loser and especially a "perfect loser"
why?
Well, first off we should agree on a certain definition of a loser, what is a loser?
The question isn't easy to answer because in our society the term "loser" is often used or rather misused by arrogant people in order to belittle other people and thus act out a sense of superiority over them, is someone automatically a "loser" just because he lives in the basement under his mother's living room? Most likely he has no other choice due to economical circumstances which doesn't necessarily mean that he failed in life or that his situation won't improve.
Does this mean that the term "loser" cannot be properly applied at all in an objective way as it's always a matter of perspective whether a certain way of life is considered a success or failure, for instance often very underprivileged working-class families consider their children a success in the sense of richness, they are proud of their children. Is a drug dealer who gets caught automatically a "loser" although he/she never had a real chance in life?
Is a serial rapist a "loser" although he was raped in childhood himself and developed a sociopathic nature which controls him?
So maybe it would be unfair to call Seligman a "loser" just because of one single huge mistake he did and instead we should pity him or whatever, I mean the amount of women you had cannot be the measure of a man's respectability or success or admiration in life, can it?
Yet if we assume that a "loser" is a generally unhappy person who lacks crucial social skills that would enable him to successfully interact with other people especially with the other sex and who lacks familiy ties and furthermore does the wrong decisions at the wrong time and fails in achieving what he/she most desires than Seligman would be indeed the archetype of a loser as all points apply to him, plus there is this ironic element on top of it that he is the potentially only man on earth who got refused by the potentially biggest and filthiest nymphomaniac in history of mankind who even sucked off a pedophile out of pity, and eventually got killed by her for trying to rape her (!), imagine how stupid it is to try to rape a wrecked nymphomaniac of all people whereas the odds to get laid by her would have been significantly higher if he just had asked her, I mean he made himself a rapist not for sadistic reasons but simply out of clumsiness because he never learned how to approach a woman despite his 65 years and the thousands books he read and this as pointed out already, makes him a "perfect loser" in my eyes, whatever he thought himself to represent, it turned out to be only a shallow facade the moment he showed his inner self by becoming a sex maniac.



"Some people are immune to good advice."
-Saul Goodman

"I ignore pathetic trolls"

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I love this anarchic woman who searches freedom....and has to PAY..
And yes, I thought the same about Seligman......Ai ai......You spoiled it at last , who could ever aspect ??
Love it. And very congruent to the other 'females'( Antichrist)
Here's lots of humour too !!

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There may be aspects of Seligman in every guy, but that doesn't mean all of us would behave as he did... It's irrelevant how we feel or think, what matters is what we do.






"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!"

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I think that is what LVT conveys in his movies, the unrest and discomfort, pushing boundaries. And then we sit back and see what reactions get stirred in the pot.

One's ability to separate thought from action, reaction from decision,...all that is truly inclusive in our unique perspective and perception of this film.

(Psssst? What a surprise bumping into you again. It's been a while. We do seem to favour similar movies though)

______________________________________
Sic vis pacem para bellum.

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Yep. Great to bump into you again. 






"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!"

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I actually didnt like the ending. I felt he portrayed an intelligent and introspective man who formed a bond with her. Finally she met someone that she might have called a friend. She was beat up, exhausted, and trusted him to fall asleep. It should have been left that way. The ending felt like a predicted cheap play. Wasnt needed. He went from kind and smart, to a lecher. Ruined the movie for me. I loved both #1 And #2 until the ending.

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