MovieChat Forums > Nymphomaniac: Vol. II (2014) Discussion > Perfect Ending, there is a Seligman in e...

Perfect Ending, there is a Seligman in every guy

posted 11 years ago by noam-mimon-441-174086
45 replies | jump to latest

Although we don't have any details about Mr. Seligman, we know enough about him to understand what type of person he is. As a guy, I actually believe that all man have some form of Seligmanism in them. Most of us are sincere but sometimes our sexual desires overpower us.

However, this is a very extreem scenario, in which Mr. Seligman actually convinced himself that he is a-sexual in order not to be confronted with the fact that he is a loner disparately yearning for human contact (just look at his living conditions and the fact that he is still a virgin at age 65). Instead he hides from humanity behind his books and intellectuality.

Joe is his complete opposite. She has lived life so hard that her lady parts don't even work anymore. This explains Mr. Seligman's odd and out of place metaphors, that he uses to relate to her story as he really can't.

For the first time in his live, he finely has the urge and the courage to act on his sexual desires because of the close connection they forced. However, without any experience in human contact he seriously lacks the social skills on how to approach a girl in such a situation.

Joe is of course furious. Not only did he try raping her when she was most vulnerable, but she also feels extremely betrayed by the first person she actually trusted as a friend, proving to her that society doesn't understand her.

In reality Mr. Seligman's sexual and social skills are still stuck on "teenager" level, something he was able to hide with his intellectuality. Again the opposite, Joe's ration thinking is limited expecting a total stranger to truly care for her. At the end of the day, they simply didn't understand each other like most of us in life and in this case the result was pretty deadly.

[–] Madgoodmoves 11 years ago

But he was asexual why stay a virgin till 65 then rape a slam pig?

[–] noam-mimon-441-174086 11 years ago

good point, thank you for bringing it up.

I believe he wasn't a-sexual, that he held on to the label of being a-sexual as to not face the fact that he is a loner and a virgin. He probably expected to die a virgin.

Suddenly this nymphomaniac ends up in his guest bedroom and they quickly establish a strong connection. Suddenly he felt something he probably hasn't experienced before and didn't know how to handle his emotions.

That's why I think he ended up trying to rape her. As a man (and us guys think rationally) he didn't understand how them having sex could be a problem because she "had sex with 1000s of man". But in all those times she was the one in control, she was the one seeking it out. Rape is not sex.

[–] MartianGhost 11 years ago

It's actually pretty ironic considering how he explained just prior to Joe going to sleep that her whole life was basically an act of rebellion of male oppression.

He understood what she had went through but literally became oblivious to it when he had his sexual urges and acted aggressively to satisfy them although in his mind, it didn't seem aggressive. He should have realized it just wasn't his time to have sex, at least not with Joe.

[–] charactercombo 10 years ago

Yes. He may have identified as asexual but, just like the pedophile, may have suppressed his true urges. People are variable, unpredictable, and don't always do things that are logical or "in character". We can be slaves to our urges and sometimes they will overpower our will to fight them. I'm not condoning such behavior but I can understand it. That is what may have happened to Seligman.

"No talking from things that don't talk!" - Jaye Tyler

[–] todddonald 8 years ago

"People are variable, unpredictable, and don't always do things that are logical or "in character"." you said that perfectly... I think the best films, are like Nymphomaniac, and allow you to draw your own conclusion to what the 'truth' of the story is. Maybe he was suppressing it, maybe it changed at the end, maybe he was possessed.. but the film allows us to ask the question, and discuss or debate it, instead of saying "this is what it is, nothing more, experience over"... I f'ing love art.

As far as inappropriate advances on other human beings, i'm against all, just for the record. Thanks for posting the original post, I wouldn't say "every guy", there's the 'chances' of similar behaviour or any 'good or evil' in every human being.

[–] babuandbabu 9 years ago

Rape is "forced" sex.

Let the trolls of IMDb howl in despair for I have returned!!!

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Riotboy-1 11 years ago

Great topic, I agree with you 100%! I don't understand the hate for this film I learned quite a bit about nymphomania. 9/10

[–] MissAngelCakes 11 years ago

Reading this has made me appreciate the ending. I fully believe that his asexualism was not biological at all.

[–] baz1779 11 years ago

You do raise some good points and I never really believed Seligman when he said he was asexual and I'm not sure he really believed it either as he turned to distractions such as books and trivial information and stories to cover up for his shyness with the opposite sex, and I believe your theory is spot on in his case.

But are you saying men in general are not capable of being asexual? I am asexual and proud of it and I wouldn't be far off to say that there are at least a few like me so to say that every man has a bit of "Seligmanism" in them is a little misguided.

[–] tamirisakov 11 years ago

why can't he be asexual?why can she be a nymphomaniac who decided to change her life,and he can't?this is called switching of the opposite,and it happens best when you meet a kindred soul.

[–] noam-mimon-441-174086 11 years ago

Hi Baz1779,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry for not being clear in my initial post. I didn't mean to say that men in general are not capable of being asexual. My point was that I believe that most of us none-asexual men have a side of us that's only wants one thing: have sex with woman and sometimes it overpowers our more rational thought. It happens to presidents (Clinton) all the way down to inmates.

[–] elmonje07 10 years ago

I think that Clinton had the same problem as Tiger did. He was probably having it thrown at him from all directions. It would take a moral individual not to take an advantage of it. I don't imagine that most men have to worry about it.

[–] manacu 11 years ago

The ending was really dumb and lacks logic in my opinion.
'sometimes our sexual desires overpower us' - Seligman didn't even have a boner, so I don't really agree with this.
Ok, he was a virgin, he was a bit weird, but I have to agree with @MadGoodMoves - there's no good explanation on why he'd try to rape her. He wasn't socially retarded, so he would at least ask her first, or wake her up (just in case he didn't actually wanted to rape her, but be sensual :D).
I don't see the logic in him going through the entire story, being all objective and then suddenly trying to rape her (even with his weirdness).

[–] rm3968 11 years ago

yeah, it makes no sense at all.

[–] sanious 10 years ago

Actually it does make sense if we go back to the point when Joe starts to go on about her extortion stories. When she talks about her going over so many sexual stories with the man who repressed his pedophile desires. When she started to talk about the child it manifested these repressed feelings. This could very well be the same thing happening when it comes to Seligman.

He stated that he had researched sex and experimented with masturbation but that is it. So he pretty much gave up and instead buried himself in his reading, which is safe to assume he voided himself from human contact for the most part. Which of course means that he buried and repressed any desires that he might have had, ones that he didn't even bother to discover.

Throughout the movie all she is talking about her life story which is dominantly about sex, but through this they grow a bound of trust because he is not judging her at all because of his own apparent repressed feelings. At the end she has a revelation and tells him that he is basically her first real friend.

For someone who seemingly had no real bound with people and then Joe comes along exposing him to her sexual stories on such a personal level, it makes sense to me that he had repressed feelings that manifested at the end of the movie where he made his move. And in the Original Post I agree with the point with how he approached it was because he was socially ignorant in how to approach such a situation.

[–] Komond 9 years ago

'sometimes our sexual desires overpower us' - Seligman didn't even have a boner, so I don't really agree with this.

You should know that "sexual desire" and "sexual excitement" are different terms and only the second is related to an erection. They're considered separately in the human sexual response cycle in most recent models. For example in cases of erectil dysfunction, there can be a huge sexual desire but zero sexual excitement. Even without that, sometimes it's possible to desire having sex but due to stress being unable to get an erection (or for a woman to lubricate and dilate). The same, you can actually have an erection without any desire.

Seligman could have a huge sexual desire yet he didn't have an erection, maybe just yet or maybe he now can't (let's also consider he maybe has lost that capacity with age or at least, he maybe needs much more time to get it started).

I think he didn't actually even thoght he was doing anything wrong, and was expecting her to wake up and be glad about it, the same way if my girlfriend starts doing it with me before I'm awake I would be ok. Of course, he was wrong thinking that, he was socially dysfunctional and forgot many important aspects: no matter how hard, painful or weird every sex she told him that she had was... it was all consensual, her sexual organs aren't in good shape -so even if she wanted she probably couldn't-, she came to a big conclussion that she wanted to be asexual, they never have any sexual and personal relation that would suggest it's ok to start having sex with her without her being conscious.

[–] blizzardwave 11 years ago

"Most of us are sincere but sometimes our sexual desires overpower us. "

No.

We are not all the same. Some of us can control ourselves. Some of us have respect. Some of us can respect friendship. Some of us value it more than sex. More than a few minutes of carnal pleasure.

If you really think sexuality trumps everything, then maybe I should kill myself right now. Every pure and precious thing in life loses meaning if this was actually true.

Come on.

Also this isn't a "guys" or "girls" thing. Both sexes are sexual. One of them has just been conditioned to hide it better than the other.

[–] Marked_man 10 years ago

You should kill yourself right now. No, seriously, that's precisely the point. I didn't like the ending as I fell it was just a kind of joke stamped on to make a point and makes one just want to disregard it, but reading your post I now understand precisely why it ended that way. The ending of the movie functions to negate everything you said in your post.

None of us control ourselves, are respectful, are true friends, etc. We pretend we are. For all his booksmarts Sleigman couldn't understand that it was not the time to satisfy his curiosity since socially he was like an autistic manchild. And Joe, was too *beep* up, her self hanging by the threads of fantasy of her new found normality.

Yeah actually, seeing it now, the ending makes perfect sense.

[–] Joeyjag_97 9 years ago

I agree with this.

"Hail to the king baby"- Ash

[–] JocastaNu 11 years ago

Of coursse, because men are such animals that cannot control themselves.

[–] kroby 10 years ago

Seligman trying rape Jo = reason trying to control emotion

[–] j205724 10 years ago

It seemed more like a test by seligman to see if joe meant what she said about not having sex anymore and she stayed true to her word by killing him. Also maybe seligman wanted to be killed by her, he reminded joe how to use her gun and new she still had it on her so maybe he was so lonely and wanted a way out of life by faking a rape attempt, there was a lot of clues in there last conversation.Sorry probably could of explained it better but explanations are not one of my strengths nor writing also.

[–] asdfasdfgasdfgh4 10 years ago

I don't understand why anyone else can see it. I'm totaly agree with you.