MovieChat Forums > Focus (2015) Discussion > So, we're supposed to root for these bas...

So, we're supposed to root for these bastards? Why?

posted 10 years ago by arnaud-15712
35 replies | jump to latest

While you guys seem pretty preoccupied with the "interracial" relationship between Smith and Robbie (it's 2015, but not in the USA it seems, go burn a cross on Smith's front lawn you backward idiots) there is a thing that SHOULD bother each and everyone of you. Strangely, it doesn't.

It is because this film expects the viewer to root for stealing crooks. Nothing new there (e.g. Oceans Eleven), but there is a difference. Thieves like George Clooney stole from people who wronged them or the "victims" were criminals themselves. Movies that pose a criminal as the good guy, always have an excuse for his actions. He is forced to steal by someone, he steals from bad guys, he steals from insanely rich arrogant megalomaniacs, and so on.

Will Smith steals from people like you and me, who save money to have a good time at an event like the Super Bowl and then get their wallets and cameras robbed by this scum. And the movie presents this as a good thing.

Scum like this can be found in al major cities in Europe, mostly of eastern-european descent. I don't root for them. Not even if they are played by Will Smith. That doesn't make them cool. Seeing them trampled by a horde of horny giraffes to the melody of YMCA, that would make such people maybe a little cool.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] invertedpenguin 10 years ago

You should be consistent. Stealing is stealing no matter what. Either you're ok with it, or not. You can't just pick and choose.

Are you kidding?

Scenario One: A poor boy steals medicine to prevent his ailing mother from dying.

Scenario Two: A bunch of college kids steal beer to take to a party.

Stealing is not stealing. Life is not black and white. And your idiotic blanket statements only apply to people like you, with no common sense. Everything is relative. Ever heard of a thing called self-defense? Someone breaks into your house and puts a gun to your head or your child's and you manage to kill him. That's not murder, that's self-defense. Someone blowing the brains out of a woman for sh!ts and giggles; that's murder.

We can and should pick and choose based on the situation and the facts. Maybe you can't because you got sh!t for brains. So get over yourself and keep your juvenile thoughts inside you because you're nobody to tell the OP what he should or shouldn't do, or what he can or cannot do.

[–] simbatopcat 9 years ago

i know this is late but about your point you don't now how many people i get into discussions about this. and they don't have the ability to understand what you are saying. I am 49 years old and it scares me the way people think out there and to hear your point of view is refreshing.

[–] deltaplans500 10 years ago

I completely agree with you. I hate those fvcking thievs.

[–] AufidiusSnodgrass 10 years ago

You don't have to root for them to find the story compelling. Part of the evolution of storytelling in modern times is the emergence of the anti-hero, someone who is an outlaw, one who may be unscrupulous, treacherous, or even plain evil. This was a departure from literature that was didactic in nature.

In such cases it's the job of the author to just show such characters as they are and lead us to get beyond our contempt for such a person and start to identify with them in their thought process. We may not like them at all, but we can start to understand them, and even come to respect such protagonists. But it doesn't mean we'd want to meet them in real life.

Here's something I read not too long ago about the Russian short story writer Anton Chekhov (1860 - 1904), who was one of the early writers who experimented with portraying outlaws in a non-judgemental manner:

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"Chekhov’s neutral tone was somewhat controversial at the time, especially when it comes to the story “The Robbers”, in which a doctor’s assistant envies a group of horse thieves freedom. In response to the criticism he received, Chekhov said, ‘You tell me off for my objectivity, calling it indifference to good and evil. When I depict horse thieves, you want me to say that stealing horses is wrong. But surely this has long been known without me saying so. Let the jury condemn them, but it is my job simply to show them as they are’; but he also said that ‘the best writers are realistic and describe life as it is, but because each line is saturated with consciousness of its goal, you feel life as it should be in addition to life as it is, and are captivated by it.’"

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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

[–] kodfish1985 10 years ago

i feel what you're saying OP. they're robbing normal people (for the most part) and it's harsh as

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] AimC 10 years ago

In any case, people need to be aware as these things happen IRL, especially when you're out of your element traveling. A guy in my tour group lost his wallet (with over a month's salary in cash) in broad daylight and nobody even saw a shadow. Consider this movie public service.

Condemning stealing won't protect you from thieves, only vigilance and a quick fist.

[–] Maryjnberry 9 years ago

As much as I admire your sentiments and the addition of the quote by Chekhov, I feel it is lost in this venue where people are arguing about a fluff piece made to entertain the masses, and keep them happy about spending their hard earned money on the Hollywood hype.
Live is not black and white, there are as many scenarios as there are people, no one can make judgement on what someone else does. This movie was about Focus, what is going on around you while you keep your eye on the beautiful girl instead of your possessions.
Having said that, this movie is also about "what goes around comes around". The protagonist has taken this beautiful girl under his wing, taught her what she asked him to teach her, then promptly dropped her, in his business it doesn't pay to get too involved, was the initial sentiment....but even jerks like Smith's character have to get pay back and who else to do it but someone like Robbie's character, who got shafted ! It is a perfect venue to draw the masses in to spend their money then to analyze later as to what the movie meant, why certain actors dropped the lead roles etc. there you go, got your money again......to stop the rip off syndrome, people should see indie movies, acted by trained, hard working actors, what is normally called the b movie...you will see real emotion, real story, worth putting your money down to see.

[–] coolaree 10 years ago

Seems the only reason we are meant to ignore their crimes is because the 2 leads are good looking, charming and charismatic people. Well they failed to win me over.

[–] ipacac22 10 years ago

So because some people don't care for interracial relationships you liken them to the klan. Strawman much? I guess this is what passes for intellect in your rose tinted world. One day you'll pull your head out of your ass OP.

Utah! Get me two.

[–] slipzen 9 years ago

And i guess you have a *beep* of intellectually sound reasons to disagree with interracial relationships?

[–] activista 9 years ago

@ipaca22

Because frankly in this day and age (the 21st century) interracial relationships are so commonplace that it shouldn't even be a damn issue anymore, and that there isn't a single damn thing wrong with them---but apparently, a lot of people still have had that outdated prejudice against IR relationship handed down to them like old clothes---basically,people have been taught to hate IRs for so long in this country,that they just keep the hate going because that's what they're been taught, not because it actually makes any damn sense, that's why.

[–] AimC 10 years ago

For people who've been victimized by thieves, this movie can be uncomfortable if Robbie weren't so hot.

For those who never have had the pleasure, it could be a vicarious fantasy life. It is probably similar to a hypothetical Bernie Madoff movie. The 99% might be able to fantasize about living large off of a ponzi scheme. Those victimized would vomit.

[–] drewschmidt920 10 years ago

Two of the biggest shows of all time, in the US at least, was breaking bad and the Sopranos. Both shows focused on criminals and at least in the beginning seemed to want the audience to "root" for the main characters.

As for conmen, this is far from the first film to glamorize the lifestyle. Just look at the UK show Hustle. Though they always try to say, "You can't cheat an honest man", that is nowhere near the reality of the situation.

There is something seductive about crime and criminals. It is something 99% of the population will never be a part of. So it makes sense that people want to experience the fantasy life they imagine it to be. But this is no different than any action movies you see where the hero of the movie kills tons of people. All those people had families, many probably had little kids at home, etc. If you actually stop and think about it most action films are extremely horrific. But when it comes to movies you are supposed to just ignore those things.

[–] arnaud-15712 10 years ago

There's a difference. In Breaking Bad, Walter's actions are never presented as cool of glamourous. We see a normal man sliding towards criminal mastermind. The show is ambiguous in whether we should see him as a good guy or bad guy - but Will Smith is presented as a good guy doing cool stuff, which he is not. He plays a lowlife garlic smelling pussyjuice moustache and the movie presents his action as justified and cool.

[–] maximusveritas 10 years ago

Exactly. Those shows were on another level, particularly Breaking Bad. They were portraying a complex character, not someone to simply root for. The series made him less and less sympathetic as it went on, which forced viewers to confront their feelings of support for him and their dislike of characters who challenged his bad behavior. It was a tragic story. Just look at the endings to see how

[–] BigRich 9 years ago

Those shows were on another level, particularly Breaking Bad. They were portraying a complex character, not someone to simply root for. The series made him less and less sympathetic as it went on, which forced viewers to confront their feelings of support for him and their dislike of characters who challenged his bad behavior. It was a tragic story.

Probably the main difference between those shows and this "movie". It took how long for those characters to develop? And you only got two hours or so for this movie? Not a fair comparison.

It's like book readers that come on IMDb to complain about the movie version. IMHO, they're two totally different versions of the same story and shouldn't be compared.

_
Every person that served can be called a veteran, but not every veteran can be called a Marine.

[–] moviemasochism 10 years ago

I'm shocked that in 2015 you've never seen a film or read a book where the protagonists are criminals. I don't know why you think the goal of the storyteller was to necessarily "root" for the characters but I don't see anything that shocking about presenting crooks as people.

I've heard that Disney/Pixar makes great films that may be more in line with your expectations. Possibly stick with those before your blood pressure gets too high from seeing stories that don't regurgitate your narrow world view back to you.

[–] Dolehof 9 years ago

The problem isn't that the protagonists are criminals, there are plenty of stories with criminals as protagonists I've enjoyed. The problem is that the protagonists are cardboard characters and we're given very little to awe over or sympathise with.

The Sopranos, Breaking Bad and Boardwalk Empire have criminals as protagonists, but they are also well rounded characters, so we can empathize with their humanity. These protagonists aren't good people, but they aren't 100% bad guys neither, they do genuinely care about at least some people and in some situation try to do the good thing. Their criminal actions sometimes made me feel uncomfortable to root for them, but I still did.

Other stories don't have that much character development but the protagonists have skills we can truly admire, like the Ocean's # series and many stories where an assassin character is the protagonists. It's not that I really sympathise with killers but these protagonists posses skills I admire and they usually take on other bad guys so I can still root for them.

Stories with petty criminals as protagonists usually show them struggling for survival themselves, so we can forgive them for it and root for them to survive.

This story had neither, they didn't steal cool stuff with cool plans, they didn't struggle for survival, they aren't even great con artists, they're just self centred petty thieves who's lifestyle was somehow portrayed a glamorous. Pick-pocketing a guards keys to enter a vault is cool, pickpocketing a wallet from somehow who's genuinely trying to help someone is not.

Robbie tells us she had to so she didn't have to become a prostitute. Well, at least a prostitute makes an honest living, they provide a service and get paid for that. According to his father Will Smith is a good person. I haven't seen any proof of that in this movie. The golden rule of film is show, don't tell. What was shown was them stealing wallets and skimming credit cards of ordinary people. The only character I could sympathize with was the gambler at the football game who took his loss remarkably gracious.

I thought for a moment it was pretty cool that Will Smith was shot, as him being killed would be a real twist. Unfortunately the twist was that the shooter was his father, which was given away earlier in the way he talked to Will in the apartment scene. It would have been cool if Robbie would actually have conned Will Smith, but she was just a girl that couldn't let go and tried to make him jealous and was just very unglamorously trying to steal a watch. The character were flat and boring and so were there action and motives and the story in general. Robbie is absolutely gorgeous to look at though, but that's about the only upside of this movie.

[–] moviemasochism 9 years ago

That was a nice response and I don't disagree with most of what you said. However, my response was to this...

It is because this film expects the viewer to root for stealing crooks. Nothing new there (e.g. Oceans Eleven), but there is a difference. Thieves like George Clooney stole from people who wronged them or the "victims" were criminals themselves. Movies that pose a criminal as the good guy, always have an excuse for his actions. He is forced to steal by someone, he steals from bad guys, he steals from insanely rich arrogant megalomaniacs, and so on.

The idea that the viewer is expected to "root" for crooks. That's not new and a lot of movies have portrayed crooks as protagonists. So many beloved movies that it's odd that Focus gets called out for not being a "good guy" criminal.

So, two characters instantly pop into my head of criminals as central characters with no redeeming qualities nor any particularly brilliant character development: Henry Hill (Goodfellas) and Tony Montana (Scarface).

I love Goodfellas and am entertained by Scarface but those two characters were not "good guys" who did bad things. Some might argue that at least in the case of Henry Hill, there was some type of character development but the story was based on a real guy and the movie is him saying that all his life he wanted to be a gangster followed by 200 minutes of him being a gangster.

But none of that is really here nor there because a story doesn't necessarily have to have the intent of making you "root" for anyone. It's a simplistic and childish way to frame the expectation, as to presume that the movie failed by not achieving that. The only crime Focus committed was not being being exceptional because God knows these days if a movie isn't an instant classic it must be the worst movie ever. Focus was okay. It was a basic love story set in a world of thieves and con artists. That's it. This notion that the intent was for the audience to admire them is ridiculous. Like I said, if you need your stories to be dumbed down enough to make you feel good, watch a Pixar movie so that it meets your expectation. Problem solved.