A man here. I realize that it's a convention in romance novel writing, but what is it with billionaires? From what I can see it seems like the most common trope in stock characters (at least for an American female audience) is the cowboy and the billionaire. From a man's standpoint, it's just kind of baffling. Are there any romance novels where the man is, say, a painter or writer? A poet or something?
shareHi dryogami,
Romance is one of the biggest literary genres (possibly the biggest) and includes several sub-genres, i.e. Christian romances, biker romances, cowboy romances, Amish romances, farm romances, medical romances, etc. The alpha dog, billionaire is simply one of the popular sub-genres that has emerged since Fifty Shades became so successful. Of course there have always been dukes, princes, and robber barons in romances, but look at the international success of Titanic in which the male lead was a poverty stricken artist.
Slightly off topic, look at the success of Outlander, a successful series of books and a cable show about a woman from another time falling in love with an impoverished Scottish farm boy. By the way, because of the success of Outlander, a lot of authors are writing Highland romances.
My first novel had a billionaire love interest long before Fifty Shades of Grey was released. By four years. The billionaire trope has been around since forever. Back in the 80s, they were millionaires.
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Hi RomanceNovelist,
I'm sure a number of romance writers created billionaire love stories before Fifty Shades, but they didn't sell in the millions or we would have heard of them.
Not really. I've been reading harlequin romances since I was ten, and they were always about millionaires or billionaires. And they sell millions. People act like 50 Shades revolutionized romance novels. They only thing cutting edge is that the BDSM angle went mainstream. And it only went mainstream because the author was a TV producer who knew how to get this on screen.
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Sorry, RomanceNovelist, we'll have to disagree. Talented romance authors create active, vibrant characters with interesting plots. E.L. James was successful because she published her novels as e-books and was able to tap into a market of women who normally don't read romance. She utilized social media beautifully. While I think her writing is awful, she combined elements of romance and erotica with elements of bondage and domination. Without the erotica (badly written in my opinion), the web, smart marketing and the BDSM which was the attraction for many readers, she's still be pounding out bad fanfiction on her Black Berry.
shareJust because someone hasn't heard of the other billionare novels doesn't mean they weren't popular, it just means the reader either wasn't of age or they weren't avid readers. Danielle Steele and Jackie Collins were doing this long before E.L. James. And even had movies based on their books too.
I don't know why you are defending E.L. James when I am not critical of her -- except to say her writing was so abysmal I didn't make it through chapter one of the book. For one, it was written in present tense which is just a no-no, except in screenwriting. There are plenty of authors selling BDSM romance novels books and have been doing it better than her. Take Red Phoenix for example, another wildly popular BDSM author. And I would daresay a more popular BDSM author than E.L. James - she is even on the USA Today best selling list:
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Phoenix/e/B006UHCM1C
My only point is that E.L James did not popularize the "billionaire" thing but SHE DID make the BDSM romance genre popular. Secondly, it only became a movie because she had the means to do it as a producer, and third, she had a built in fanfiction audience because her story was a fanfiction of twilight. I wrote star wars fanfiction ten years ago and it has been read more times than my novels. If I Had ever converted those stories into an "original" fiction, I'm sure I would have a hundred thousand readers already lined up to buy it too.
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Hi RomanceNovelist, I'm neither defending or critiquing E.L. James and we've had this discussion before. She's a crappy writer who had good timing and put the elements together to create a highly successful literary series. She sold over 110 million books, numbers even contemporary best sellers haven't touched. Regarding writing in the present tense, while I don't care for it, it certainly isn't a no no. Hillary Mantel, Toni Morrison and Keven Barry have used at times.
Regarding producing a movie, she was a television producer of small shows that never crossed the Atlantic. Mike De Luca and Dana Brunetti produced the movie and gave her a producing credit because she insisted on it.
I don't recall posting here but once maybe a year or so ago so I don't think we had a conversation before.
That said, E.L. James is not a literary writer (think Hemingway, etc) and she is definitely not the most sold contemporary author. That honor belongs to J.K. Rowling. In fact, E.L. James is not even in the top ten. On Amazon's most popular author list she ranks 49.I think she had a great marketing plan for her book. I support her, I don't knock her at all. I think you are just inflating her success, a bit defensively. I don't even know how we got on this topic, except to go this far because I had to correct something you said. Or maybe not correct, but put in the proper perspective.
Other authors have used present tense for stories, but appropriately, for literary purposes, not pop lit, or chick lit or romance writing.
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RomanceNovelist, you did post here a while ago and we had the same conversation. I remember at the time you mentioned writing in the present tense and I commented that a number of authors use it. Hilary Mantel wroteWolf Hall in the present tense and won the Booker award along with Marlon James. Although I don't care for novels written the present tense as a reader or writer, many esteemed writers use it use it.
Regarding James, I never said she is the most popular contemporary author, I said she's sold more erotic romances than any other writer and she has. Her most recent count is 120 million books from her Grey novels. By the way, Agatha Christie is the best selling author of popular fiction, not Rowling. You mentioned a BDSM writer who is a USA Today bestseller but a writer only has to sell 5,000 units to get on the that list. Bookbub makes it much easier too.
You started the conversation by responding to one of my posts. I'm more than happy to end it if you are.
Yeah, I don't knw what we're discussing at this point. And I didn't pay attention to who I responded to. All of your comments were incorrect. I don't have time to research your belief that she has sold more books than any other erotic novelist, but you were wrong on all other statements. You keep brining up her sold numbers, instead of actually acknowledging that you were incorrect. Yu said, if other authors had written about billionaires you don't know about them so they must not have been successful (I'm paraphrasing). But I already pointed out that:
1.) You have Jackie Collins, and Danielle Steele, and millions of Harlequins that have "billionaire" storylines before EL James released her trilogy.
2.) She isn't even close to the first erotica novelist to sell millions of books, that honor belongs to authors like ZANE.
Zane was writing Erotic books since 1997 and sold MILLIONS before EL James was on the map. Zane has her popular Cinemax series, Zane's Sex Chronicles and the Jump Off, and even had a movie released in 2014, Addiction.
She was the first to bring erotic novels to the mainstream. The only difference as to why she never reached 120 million is that Zane, as popular as she was, wrote for a black audience, and so that's where her books sold, and limited her market even though she was popular and well established authors. White readers don't buy black books. But b lack readers buy books by white authors. Zane is also a TERRIBLE writer. Her books are awful. I read one and got through it, barely made it through the other.
3.) HARLEQUIN ROMANCE was selling romance/erotic for decades, and have well sold over 100 million books before EL JAMES wrote her first novel. They have made 585 million So she is not the first to sell that many books.
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My comments were succinct and to the point. E.L. James has sold more erotic romances than any other novelist. I've brought Zane up on the board countless times. She has been successful with her urban romances, but hasn't made the money E.L. James has despite her cable television contacts. I agree with you, her writing is lacking and unfortunately, she got into tax troubles too.
Harlequin is a romance publishing house, not an individual writer. While their many writers have sold well, neither Harlequin nor Avon have a contracted writer who sales equal E.L. James. The late Barbara Cartland has sold more than James, but she never wrote erotic romance and pounded out one Regency romance after another.
I'm aware of Jackie Collins, Steele, Judith Krantz, and many others who wrote millionaire stories before E.L. James, but none were erotic romances. I never waste time with people who feel they have to be insulting, especially when I am polite. I bid you farewell and wish you luck with your writing. Adios.
yes.
shareA woman here. A billionaire's money represents safety and security.
For every animal bought, a shelter animal dies.
And a lifestyle not many of us can share...it is a sexy,romantic fantasy love story for most fans.. posters have said what if he was poor and lived in a trailer?..and it's like...Who would want to see that?...not a fantasy of mine..
shareWell, that's why I mentioned painters or poets. With a poet, for example, I would think he could seduce her with his words. But it seems like an awful lot of women look at money when it comes to men.
From a man's viewpoint, it seems strange. When men fantasize about women, to the extent that he thinks about her job, it's usually something like cheerleader or nurse. How much money she makes never enters into it. But for women it seems even in a more feminist age they still want a man who makes money.
Ana hates his wealth...and has a difficult time enjoying/adjusting to it...but Christian is upset when he wants to buy her a car or jewelry, saying to her jokingly. "I am rich, get over it"...and when they a buy a huge house overlooking the Seattle coastline, he wants to tear it down and build a new one, but she loves the older home and the huge meadow, and wants to bring it back to its splendor...he loves that about her.
This whole story is a fantasy...the chance of any of us marrying a billionaire is nil...so I read about it.
As noted, dryogami, the Fifty Shades trilogy is a fantasy, just as James Bond is a male fantasy. There are a number of successful romance writers who create more realistic scenarios.
shareTrue...but the category "Erotic Romance" usually takes it up and out a notch or two..lots of billionaires...cowboys..MMA fighters...lawyers..motorcycle types..I have to say, I prefer the billionaires, myself..
And the James Bond movies are far from realistic...and never any ugly women,who drop their drawers any time JB is in the room..except for Lotte Lenya who played Rosa Klebb in From Russia with Love.
isundling, I pointed out there are myriad sub-genres in romance literary and billionaires are simply one of them. Erotic romance is a sub-genre, a popular one now, but is so oversaturated that readers are moving elsewhere.
Please reread my post again. I noted that James Bond is just as big a fantasy figure as Christian Grey.
Um...what are you trying to say? You did not make it clear. You think you are James Bond...Bond is better than Grey? Ok...tell me why?
Hi starzshine22. I made it quite clear. Christian Grey is a fantasy created for a female audience, James Bond is a fantasy created for a male audience. They are both fantasies but for completely different audiences.
shareI really don't think it has anything to do with the money. It's the.. I have control...I will keep you safe and protect you. I'm the bear who's gonna help you find you'r way. Lean on me and give me you'r heart...You will finally get my heart too...
I agree somewhat...the money is only a part of the equation..the author wanted her "hero" to be obscenely wealthy...smart..attractive..snappy dresser..physically handsome..and totally *beep* up..stalker...sadist..undeserving of love..cold..my way or the highway..his turnaround in Darker is very moving and believable..but he still retains some of his "bad habits"...otherwise it would all be too easy getting to their HEA.
shareHi starzshine22,
The fantasy in Fifty Shades is that the power changes by the second book. Christian becomes enslaved to Ana and is willing to die for her. It's a relatively common ingredient in romance novels, certainly something E.L. James copied from other romance novels.
You're confused. You don't want safety and security. If you did, why couldn't you be the billionaire? A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle, the feminists say.
What you want is what people want when they go on vacation to a hotel room and get to abuse the furniture because it isn't theirs.
"You don't want safety and security. If you did, why couldn't you be the billionaire?"
Besides the simple fact that few of us will ever be one, regardless of whether we want to or not, that wouldn't necessarily be any more secure. Is Donald Trump secure with Mueller breathing down his back? It seems that many of Trump's friends and associates are being indicted, Roger Stone being the latest in a list that continues to grow. And, if you do a little research, you'll find Trump's connection to organized crime dates back more than 30 years.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/are-trumps-mob-connections-a-coincidence-fuhgeddaboudit/2018/08/10/24b62e2c-9cad-11e8-843b-36e177f3081c_story.html
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle, the feminists say."
In other words, feminists don't want to start a family. And, if all women took that attitude, it would simply be a question of time before the human race went extinct. Besides, women aren't the fish, men are.
Who wears the pretty dress and the make-up? Who's the one who dangles the bait from a hook and then wiggles it?
"What you want is what people want when they go on vacation to a hotel room and get to abuse the furniture because it isn't theirs."
But what do Anastasia and Christian want?
Anastasia wants a lover, and Christian wants to be in complete control.
Being free to jump ship if the hammer ever does come down is exactly why women would never fantasize about being the billionaires themselves.
Mueller and Washington Post said Iraq had WMDs. Those are the real gangsters. Stop drooling. You should be the one to die in Iraq if you like them.
"Being free to jump ship if the hammer ever does come down is exactly why women would never fantasize about being the billionaires themselves."
Your probably right if you say that MOST women don't want to be billionaires, but I think it would be presumptuous to speak for all of them. Last I heard Oprah was worth 2.6 billion. That's even more than Donny Boy. Of course, Oprah isn't fantasizing about being ridiculously wealthy, since she actually is. And, whether or not she ever dreamed of becoming wealthy before she actually did is another question altogether. But, once it's clear that it's POSSIBLE to earn that much money, I wouldn't be surprised if at least SOME women do dream of becoming fabulously wealthy.
"Mueller and Washington Post said Iraq had WMDs. Those are the real gangsters. Stop drooling. You should be the one to die in Iraq if you like them."
Whether or not I like them, and, for that matter, whether or not Mueller is a criminal has no bearing on whether or not Donald Trump is feeling nervous at the moment. There may be a law against robbing someone, but that's hardly any reassurance if someone's pointing a gun at you.
Hey, that reminds me... remember in "Iron Man 2" Tony Stark went a bit nuts, and told his girlfriend "Here, I'm giving you the company. YOU run the billion-dollar business empire!". And she was horrified, because that meant as fuckload of work and swimming with the kind of sharks an arms manufacturer has to deal with.
Definitely not the stuff of an ordinary gal's romantic daydreams.
I have no idea why a lot of women fantasize about such an abusive, controlling douche.
If Christian was the average Joe with a middle class lifestyle, they would've gotten a restraining order against him the second he tracked her by her cell phone. That's way too creepy.
I guess there are women shallow enough to actually let a man stalk, whip, control and assault them if he's rich and handsome enough.
I don't care how sexy and rich a man is. If a man even tried to treat me the way Christian treated the clueless Ana, I would have already slapped him with an RO.
My now ex tried to control me and push me around. I reminded him that one man pushed
his wife around so much, she cracked. She waited until he was asleep. She sewed him in a
sheet and beat him with an iron skillet.
My ex must have taken me seriously because I told him that he had to go to sleep sometime. I
still left him when I caught him cheating with a
married woman and getting her pregnant.
Grey is not a man any sane woman would want
to be with.
Fan girls need not respond if they are just going to get offended over my opinion. I've dealt with obsessed fan girls who verbally attacked me
because I gave the book 1 star. If they are that immature and they can't understand that not
everyone will love these books, then they are too
immature to read this sorry excuse of a book.
There was a funny quote on the Age of Adeline board when the rich model guy basically stalks the girl he likes:
"If he's rich and/or good looking, it's romantic. If he's not, it's creepy."
it's a classical cinderella fantasy (in this case with BDSM elements) Billionaires are the Princes of our modern times...
"Some people are immune to good advice."
-Saul Goodman
"I ignore pathetic trolls"
Like I posted earlier...if you go to Amazon and click on erotic romance..you have several choices...erotic romance with or without explicit sex and so on...then you can choose your main guy...wealthy...playboy...cowboy...MMA fighter. fireman..policeman..private eye..spy..and on and on.. this is all fantasy...and we know it and still enjoy it..why the heck does anyone really care what we read or watch?
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I have no problems with my inner self... and I do enjoy erotic fantasy romances..so what now?
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No one fantasizes 'bout Hobo Joe! :(
shareInteresting responses. I guess I just find it a bit frustrating. Speaking as a man, if a woman was interested in me because of my looks or my personality, I would feel attracted and desired. If I knew she was interested in my bank account, I'd feel like I was paying for a hooker. I don't know how much other guys are like me, but I would never go to a prostitute because I want to be desired. I want to feel like she's attracted to ME, not what's in my wallet..
shareBut you are talking about real life...we are talking about fantasy..I had a loving husband, but I still liked to read fantasy love stories..
As far as Ana, she hates his money...but to please Christian,she finally learns to graciously just say thank you when he gives her gifts...but it's not easy for her.
And you might be surprised how many men pay for a hooker and still think it's not their money that attracts the women.
I refused to read the garbage they called a book, but I did see clips from the movie.
I think the money is a symbol of power and control, which is in actuality the attraction, and which is why men like Daryl Dixon in TWD get women when they look like white trash.
The juxtaposition is that Ana is the opposite of that, which was a turn-off for me. A far more pleasing overtone would be power vs power. That's some hot *beep* me.
Well..Christian being a dominant, would never be attracted to a powerful female..so that story ends right there..and this love story is about a powerful man who wants no ties..no commitments...and certainly not marriage..but then this young girl trips and falls into his office..thus we have a story.
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