MovieChat Forums > Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017) Discussion > Washington Monument Built by Slaves...

Washington Monument Built by Slaves...

posted 7 years ago by Underdog_73 (768)
40 replies | jump to latest

Unbelievable. Stupidity has reached epidemic levels. I think the Empire State Building was built by slaves too...

In an age with information at your fingertips, how can humans be getting dumber? We all know slavery was horrible, but let's not associate it with everything. This is the same mentality found in today's young morons who believe white people oppressed black people everywhere in the country until 2008. Grow up.

EDIT:
Anyone reading this discussion will get an opportunity to witness a few morons who don't have the intellect to comprehend anything said. They simply want to argue their irrelevant beliefs, against a topic that has nothing to do with anything their replying with.

I never said slavery wasn't horrible. I never said slaves were not "involved" in any aspect of the small portion of the monument that was built while slavery still existed.

I debated the statement that "slaves built the monument". They didn't. At the very least, white men built the monument, and they very well may have used slaves during the very first levels. That doesn't mean slaves built it. The majority of it was built years after slavery was abolished. Anyone believing that means I think slavery wasn't bad or didn't exist, is simply a complete moron.

Worse, anyone who believes that my saying "slaves were used for grunt work" is somehow offensive, well that person simply is undeserving of oxygen. That's what people did with slaves. It was horrible. How does my saying it make me some offender? Idiot.

One last time, to the morons. The debate here is simply the statement "slaves built the monument". They didn't. 85% of it was built after slavery was abolished. And if white men used slaves to build some of the first 15%, that still doesn't lead to the conclusion that slaves built the monument.

Can I make it any clearer? This has nothing to do with the tragedy that was slavery, or my opinion of it. I'm in disbelief just how dumb a human is capable of becoming.

[–] DracTarashV2 (4493) 7 years ago

I think responding to this show of disapproval and indubitable outrage should be done with the maturity and intellect the OP claims to have. Although one thread made it clear and sufficient what your main issue with the movie is, it’s obvious by this thread and your others that this movie has, um, yeah, what do “thick-skinned” right-wing males love to call it? TRIGGERED you.

Your kind hears this thing called facts you don’t like to be reminded of (which is like your kryptonite) and once in a while see a modern film with fewer Caucasians in it (doesn’t happen as often as you fear), and predictably you lose your shit. Oh, Zendaya’s character spoke “unnecessary Hollywood propaganda” that was done with humor? The cast was predominantly people of different races and backgrounds that for once mirror reality? You know, an extremely diverse place like Queens/New York? Shucks, I can only imagine how it hurt you to watch this and see it thrown at your face; many alt-right (Nazi) pricks sympathize with you. So, is “regressive” Hollywood continuing their fight against the strong white men by not keeping things the way they were? Or do they simply enjoy messing with u snowflakes by now? Whatever their end game is, they seem to be doing something right. And the FACT is, many like you run around all over the internet constantly crying about “sissy” liberals (even going as far as to sending death threats to minority actors all the way from Spider-Man to Star Wars) just because they don’t look how you want them to and/or are against your hateful agenda. You are simply pathetic and representative of the real PC police.

What, too many assumptions? Even if everything I said doesn’t represent you, your rant echoes the way klan members on the internet feel, so I know I’m right on the money. In any event, keep them tears flowing, sonny boy. And man... I love this movie!

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Wow. What a blathering pile of crap, and an utter failure to sound intelligent. It takes more than simply the use of big words. Much more. The kicker here is your attempt to somehow make this political. That is the go to topic for those without intellect. Everything is political. Right or left. They think it makes them sound smart. It doesn't. By the way, am I right or left? Your reasoning was beyond nonsensical.

In any case, this post had to do with the Washington Monument and who built it. Your crazy rant should be saved for your manifesto. Since you completely missed the point, slaves didn't build the monument. Do some research and try...just try....to use some common sense. I know you'll fail, but ask someone smarter than you. That would be anyone.

And try to learn what a "fact" is. Look it up. It would be comical that you believe it's a fact that slaves built it, if it wasn't so sad. You also need to learn the definition of PC. Nothing I said can be construed that way. Are you really this clueless or is it a joke?

[–] beauq81 (1085) 7 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument#History

Simplest research. Information at your fingertips.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Exactly. And while Wikipedia is the most inaccurate website available, even that states it was unlikely slave labor built the monument. I can only assume that was your point, since you failed to include it.

The fact that 75% of the monument was built many years after the Civil War ended, should be the first clue. The second clue is the fact that stone masons and brick layers were highly skilled labor back then. Sorry, but slaves were not skilled labor. Maybe they helped clear the foundation and carried equipment, but that's probably the extent of their help, if any. So any attempt to put a negative spin on the monument is flawed at best.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

We learn that Michelle's character is well-read, informed, and seeks knowledge outside convention. The Wikipedia article clearly distinguishes between the two processes of building the monument. The first phase more than likely using slaves---"However, Holland's views are valid for the first phase (1848–54) because much of its construction only required unskilled manual labor, assisted only by a steam engine to lift the stones because many weighed several tons each." If the word "wikipedia" is not creditable enough for you, possibly the historical citations at the end of each paragraph will be. Luckily the information provided here is from a reputable science journal. It's not about "negative spin". It's about a character who recognizes a historical cost and chooses not to glorify it on a personal level.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Unskilled labor, only assisted by steam engines? Seriously? You're right. They found the stones already cut to size. It was an amazing find. Nature did it all. And operating steam engines was in itself skilled labor, so I can't even fathom your point.

I'll agree with one of the foremost historians on the monument, and I'll use the common sense I was fortunate enough to be born with. Please do a little of your own research. If you come to the same conclusion, I really don't know what to tell you.

Oh, the historian doubts much slave labor went into it.....and not just any historian. One of the most knowledgeable. I'm sure you know better though.

I'll concede slaves were involved in grunt work during the first phase, but the issue at hand is the ridiculous statement that "slaves built the monument". That's simply not true in any sense of accuracy.

Slavery was bad enough on it's own, in a different time, but let's not frivolously attempt to infuse it into every aspect of history. Wanting to consistently put a negative spin on history is childish.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

I'll concede slaves were involved in grunt work during the first phase, but[/quote]

...that's what the Michelle character was saying.

[quote]but the issue at hand is the ridiculous statement that "slaves built the monument". That's simply not true in any sense of accuracy.

...except it IS accurate. You just said it was.

EDIT---I give up on the 'quote' crap.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Is that honestly your perception and comprehension of what I said, or are you being intentionally obtuse?

The stones were cut by skilled workers, the stones were placed by skilled workers. The monument was built by skilled workers.

Is it the term "grunt work" that throws you?

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

It's the word "slaves" that interest me.

Do you really think it mattered to those enslaved if you renamed their forced servitude as "grunt work"?

Because they were only forced to work on the foundations of the Washington Monument doesn't make them any less Slaves.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore, and clearly, neither do you. The discussion was never about whether or not they were slaves.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

It's about you being outraged and offended that a character would dare bring up the fact that slaves were part-and-parcel in the construction of the Washington Monument.

They didn't build the whole thing by themselves. But they worked on parts of it. They were still Humans owned by other Humans. Still forced to work against their will.

Dismissing *any* part of their brutal existence as "grunt work" belittles the entire struggle of their reality. Your whole post is a whiny bellyache about people who honor history by remembering the facts.

Nothing wrong whatsoever with people acknowledging historical truths. Doesn't make them "stupid" or "dumb" as you called them. Makes them inquisitive and well-informed. Is it not more disrespectful to pretend those associations don't exist? You want everyone to make-believe our history of slavery has zero impact on today's socio-economic environment. Why would you want to do that? Where's the disconnect?

The number of people who died during the construction of the Great Wall of China numbered in the hundreds of thousands. And many of them are buried in and under the wall itself. Ten million people visit the Great Wall every year. It's an amazing architectural achievement and something that is rightly admired and valued historically. But people associate the fact that 400,000 convicts and soldiers died building it. Because it happened. Doesn't change the appreciation people have for it.

Your post says more about your backward-ideology than the movie says about slavery. Hop off your Nationalist high horse and learn something new. Try doing two things at the same time! Appreciate history, but reflect on it in an unbiased way!

See it from the character's POV. She's black, at least in part, and perhaps that has some bearing on how she perceives the world. You think?

Did that make sense? Could you follow okay? If that was too difficult to comprehend, I could rephrase it in Sesame Street terms.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Like I said, you're having your own argument. If you can't follow the discussion, simply give up.

The points you're attempting to convey have nothing to do with anything I said.

Are you honestly stupid enough to somehow take from my statement that any form of slavery wasn't bad? How thick are you. I'm in disbelief anyone can't read and comprehend. Slaves were used for grunt work. It's a fact. I'm sorry you're too stupid to get it. My saying it doesn't make me the offender, moron.

One last time. The argument here is simply the statement "slaves built the monument". They didn't. 85% of it was built after slavery was abolished. And if white men used slaves to build some of the first 15%, that still doesn't lead to the conclusion that slaves built the monument. You unbelievably, idiotic, mouth breathing dolt.

[–] GnatNitpicker (52) 7 years ago

And Sesame Street terms it is.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Me, gnatpicker am too toopid to undertand.....

Per your wish, I used Sesame Street talk. Is this better for you? I chose Cookie Monster since I figured all the others spoke too eloquently for you to comprehend.

Even your last post, which you hoped was an insult, only resulted in further proof of your idiocy. You say it'll be Sesame Street terms, then you seem to drift off like a moron....um, you actually have to follow up, when you make a comment like that, dumb ass. As you can see, I did it for you. You're even too stupid to know how to insult someone intelligently.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 7 years ago

You're the idiot who wrote:

"And while Wikipedia is the most inaccurate website available, even that states it was unlikely slave labor built the monument."

When the exact Wikipedia article you mention states:

According to historian Jesse Holland, it is very likely that African-American slaves were among the construction workers, given that slavery prevailed in Washington and its surrounding states at that time, and slaves were commonly used in public and private construction.

Slaves were put to work building the Washington Monument. Deal with it. Slavery was a horrible and embarrassing chapter in our country's history. Trying to downplay it or pretend it didn't happen is a disservice to us all, and an embarrassment to you.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

I can cut and paste too, moron. Do you only include what you want to? The article also said:

---------Washington Monument Historian John Steele Gordon stated "I can't say for certain, but the stonemasonry was pretty highly skilled, so it's unlikely that slaves would've been doing it. ----------

Did you intentionally leave that part out, are you truly too dumb to read it all? Like I said though, wikipedia isn't always accurate, so why even use it in an argument. You literally just proved that for me. Unintentionally, I know, but stupid people can't help themselves. Can they, dumdum?

You're intent on advertising your stupidity, so I won't even waste my time attempting to enlighten you. Don't just look at words and sentences. Try to actually comprehend them. Another idiot missing the point and arguing against a stance never taken. Dumb ass.

Are you honestly stupid enough to somehow take from my statement that any form of slavery wasn't bad? How thick are you. I'm in disbelief anyone can't read and comprehend. You're a fool, using as an argument, articles that you're too stupid to understand are making my point. This is a special kind of stupid.

One last time. The argument here is simply the statement "slaves built the monument". They didn't. 85% of it was built after slavery was abolished. And if white men used slaves to build some of the first 15%, that still doesn't lead to the conclusion that slaves built the monument. Try to actually understand what's said, before you reply with irrelevant nonsense.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 7 years ago

Be as rude as you want. I comprehended exactly what you wrote.

You stated that the Wikipedia article proved your assertion that slaves didn't build it, while the article clearly states they did. No, they did not do the stonemasonry, but they were used for physical labor.

Do percentages really matter? If only some of the first 15% of the work was done by slaves, is that okay? If slaves were used to build something, it was built by slaves. It doesn't need to have been done 100%, or 90% or even 2% by slaves to count.

Don't call the rest of us idiots for pointing out a fact that you can't seem to accept.

The Washington Monument was built by slaves. Deal with it.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

You're an idiot. You want the world to know? Fine with me. I can't dumb it down any further, and you don't deserve the courtesy. I showed you where YOUR article claimed they didn't build it, yet you've proven you want to be moron. Insisting just the parts you agree with matter, and ignoring the rest, doesn't make one true and the other not. Your intentional stupidity, in addition to the unintentional, says all I need to know about you. And as if you didn't display your idiocy effectively, you want to take it a step further by crying about my rude reply to your initial rudeness. Wow. Your stupidity knows no bounds.

No slave was a skilled laborer. Deal with it. You clearly don't have the brains to possess any skills, so I'm certain that's why you want it to be true. Try reading the entire article, dumb ass.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 7 years ago

It's not MY article, and what you showed me is irrelevant to the discussion. You've quoted the portion of the article where it states that slaves didn't do the stonemasonry. You failed to read further, where you would find "it is very likely that African-American slaves were among the construction workers, given that slavery prevailed in Washington and its surrounding states at that time, and slaves were commonly used in public and private construction."

Perhaps YOU should try reading the whole article?

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Don't simply read. Try to comprehend what the words mean. Then try to comprehend the meaning of the sentences. Then the overall intent. I know it's hard for you, but try.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 7 years ago

This is just a crazy back and forth. I quote the article verbatim, then you say it means something other than it does. I quote it again, you say likewise.

Let's just agree that the English language operates differently in your world and leave it at that.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Yep...you're doing exactly the thing you're negatively describing. You're quite the genius, aren't you. And a hypocrite to boot. Is it necessary to display your stupidity with every post?

[–] Moonglum9 (11267) 4 years ago

It takes more than simply the use of big words.

Now you tell me! I'm wont to cogitate that my utilizonification of gargantualitory lexicographicness made me real smart-like.

[–] DarthRoger (867) 7 years ago

Soooo.... Anyone who thinks that quote about the Washington Monument being built by slaves is a member of the KKK?!?
I'm sorry but that's a pretty tacky thing to post in response to someone's opinion, of which EVERYONE is entitled to in this country. I've heard many fans of many ethic backgrounds (many of them African-American), who believed this statement by MJ had no place in a comic book movie. I don't agree or disagree. Does everything in our world today have to be political? Seriously???

As for me, I didn't take offense to MJ's statement like a lot of people did, mainly because her character was kind of a tongue-in-cheek joke throughout the movie. She was the odd girl protesting everything and all the other characters in the movie seemed to role their eyes or just ignore her. Even her teacher seemed amused at her. Did anyone else get that feeling?

I don't believe Underdog_73 (69) made a racial comment and I think it's wrong to make such a charge. You disagree with him. Let it be that and don't be disagreeable.

Either way, the statement didn't quell my love for the movie. It was great!

[–] RachelRN (1) 7 years ago

Wow!! First of all, let me say that you can find evidence to support BOTH sides online (you can find people who claim that the Earth is flat too). Most historians agree that the initial phase of the WM was most likely built w/ the help of slave labor. Slavery was legal in Washington, D.C. until the DC Compensated Emancipation Act of 1862. Slaves worked in the quarries where much of the building material was gathered. Slaves probably helped build MANY of the great monuments/ buildings in our Country. It doesn't take away from their greatness. Like many other countries, not everything in our history is a bowl of cherries. To deny these facts doesn't make them go away. The thing I'm most proud of is how far we've come since then! We still have a long way to go until all people are considered equal, but we're hopefully learning from past mistakes and moving forward!

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Unfortunately I think your post was too lucid and intelligent for dractarashv2 to comprehend.

I'm appreciative of it though. It's nice to see intellect still exists.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Awesome Post!

[–] AssetsonFire (145) 4 years ago

If that's you being mature, I'd hate to see you being childish.

[–] FredBurroughs (21447) 7 years ago

Wasn't the Empire State Building constructed long after slavery was abolished?

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

It was sarcasm, and partly my point.

[–] FredBurroughs (21447) 7 years ago

Fair. You should know by now that sarcasm is tough to pick up on the internet.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Agreed. There is some stigmatization of the past but to equate it in todays time is just nonsense. Sure there is still some places that still do that but most of the country has been better off. People that mostly complain are those that just want handouts and don't want to do shit but go on social media and complain about the wealthy people. If you hate wealthy people so much, stop fucking paying them like that fucking iphone you're using. They're only rich because you yourself voluntarily gave it away then wonder why you're still so fucking poor.

Also, tell me something, has any successful black person ever went to help poor white kids? I can't think of any. I mostly see them build schools and other stuff in Africa instead. You know... ever since I was a kid, I used to see on TV the give a $1 a day to help these needy kids in Africa and they'll send you pictures of them as they grow up and stuff. Fast forward 20 years or so and I am still seeing that same shit on TV. It's like a never ending struggle there. Do they even bother trying over there anymore? They just keep shitting out kids, get ebola or some other disease and western nations have to clean up after the mess. Yes, colonialism happened, but that doesn't mean you can't just rebuild after they left with billions pouring in from western nations to try to help it recover. 20+ years and that situation over there has not improved much. I know Bill Gates handled the malaria stuff well though. Just what I see anyway.

Another thing, Asians build the railroad but you don't seem them complaining about shit. They study hard and work hard and are successful with strict tiger mom like parenting. Not your oh shii dad left me when I was young or he's in jail.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

Why can't everyone comprehend this?

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7699) 7 years ago

It's not comprehending so much as the fact it's a dumb, uninformed statement. Then again there's idiots out there who insist Osama bin Ladin wasn't responsible for 9/11 and that it was George W. Bush who planned it.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

And there are idiots out there who insist a backwards desert dwelling jihadist halfway across the world is capable of orchestrating an massive attack on the most protected nation with the most powerful military in the world, be able to hijack 4 passenger airliners of different airports all bound for California and be able to hit both towers and the pentagon without any air fighter scramble to take down said deviated planes.

[–] Underdog_73 (768) 7 years ago

I can assure you I have no doubt Osama Bin Laden orchestrated the attacks on 9/11.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Guess you didn't read the 9/11 report. It was orchestrated by those in Saudi Arabia. Majority of the terrorists were Saudi's. There was bill or motion that wanted to be put forth to sue said country but Saudi Arabia threatened to sell off US assets if they did so so it never came to pass.

[–] sut6432 (2908) 6 years ago

The character of "MJ" in Homecoming was easily the worst thing in an otherwise pretty good movie. I couldn't stand her character, her political bullshit, and her not going up into the monument, added with her moronic reasoning for not going into the building...it just made me despise the character even more.

At least she got a reaction out of me, haha. I guess what I'm trying to say is...she sucks.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7699) 6 years ago

Here's my opinion. Even if part of the Washington Monument was built by slaves, it wasn't as painful for them as picking Cotton. I would rather help build the Washington Monument than get my fingers and hands all cut up picking cotton.