MovieChat Forums > The Bible (2013) Discussion > A Black African Samson? What were they ...

A Black African Samson? What were they thinking?


There is no archaelogical evidence that ancient Israelites had any thing in common with members of the Negroid (to use the technical term) race. While this may not seem politically correct, it does conform to existing evidence and the widely shared opinion of scholars. Naturally, I will be accused of racism for insisting on historical accuracy. After all, Samson and Delilah are not Othello and Desdemona.

reply

Samson wasn't black but black people played some part in shaping the bible's history. For example the Ethiopian eunuch, Solomon's wife Sheba etc. The original Pharaohs were black before been overthrown

My Voting history is secret;)

reply

Some were but most weren't, not the earliest Pharaohs, at any rate.

A lesser-known fact: some later Pharaohs were "Palestinians" and possibly the ancestors of some Jews.

reply

The earliest Pharaohs were black the most were black.Dna proof is coming in.
google king tut in wiki and rameses the 3rd for example.

or
Egyptsearch Reloaded - DNA results Rameses III shows African ...


google EgyptSearch Forums: DNAtribes analysis on Tel Amarna mummies.


google menes picture.

reply

Stop embarrassing yourself. Tutankhamun and Ramesses III are NEW KINGDOM pharaohs and not "the earliest pharaohs". The 3rd century BCE Egyptian priest Manetho credited a "Meni" as the founder of the king lists but there's little archaeological evidence of that. The "Menes" (Egyptian: "Meni") photo you cite may be of the first king Narmer, but no tomb has ever been found. Forensic studies of King Tut have not resolved the question of race, nor is race an unproblematic form of classification as far as most biologists are concerned. More so given the diversity of ancient Egypt's population.

What we CAN be sure of is that there were black pharaohs, notably during the 25th dynasty (Third Intermediate Period, which follows the New Kingdom), that the population of ancient Egypt was racially diverse from the earliest recorded history, and that Egyptians defined them first and foremost by their culture and polity. However, it is also the case that Egyptians tended to show a certain degree of race-consciousness in art, depicting "Asiatics" (Semites, mainly) and Libyans as light skinned and often frizzy haired and Black Africans as dark-skinned and woolly haired. Egyptians are frequently depicted as having a reddish-brown hue to distinguish themselves from the other groups.

Do yourself a favor. Take a break from popular websites and google and check out standard works of ancient Egyptian history from your local library.

reply

DNA history of Egypt
The genetic history of the demographics of Egypt reflects Egypt's geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: the Mediterranean, the Middle East, the Sahara and East Africa.

In general, various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of North African populations are intermediate between those of the Near East, the Horn of Africa, southern Europe and Sub Saharan Africa, though NRY frequency distributions of the modern Egyptian population appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any sub-Saharan African population, suggesting a much larger Eurasian genetic component.

Ancient DNA
Contamination from handling and intrusion from microbes create obstacles to the recovery of Ancient DNA. Consequently most DNA studies have been carried out on modern Egyptian populations with the intent of learning about the influences of historical migrations on the population of Egypt. One successful study was performed on ancient mummies of the 12th Dynasty, by Paabo and Di Rienzo, which identified multiple lines of descent, some of which originated in sub-Saharan Africa.

Blood typing and DNA sampling on ancient Egyptian mummies is scant; however, blood typing of dynastic mummies found ABO frequencies to be most similar to modern Egyptians and some also to Northern Haratin populations. ABO blood group distribution shows that the Egyptians form a sister group to North African populations, including Berbers, Nubians and Canary Islanders.


Ramesses III
A 2012 study done on the mummified remains of Ramesses III determined that the pharaoh's y-chromosome belonged to Haplogroup E1b1a (Y-DNA). The pharaoh's y-chromosome belongs to the most frequent haplogroup among Sub-Saharan African y-chromosomes.



DNA studies on modern Egyptians
Egypt has experienced several invasions during its history. However, these do not seem to account for more than about 10% overall of current Egyptians ancestry when the DNA evidence of the ancient mitochondrial DNA and modern Y chromosomes is considered. While Ivan van Sertima argue that the Egyptians were primarily Africoid before the many conquests of Egypt diluted the Africanity of the Egyptian people, other scholars such as Frank Yurco believe that Modern Egyptians are largely representative of the ancient population, and the DNA evidence appears to support this view.

In general, various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of modern North African populations are intermediate between those of the Horn of Africa and Eurasia, though possessing a greater genetic affinity with the populations of Eurasia than they do with Africa. The present population of the Sahara is Caucasoid in the extreme north, with a fairly gradual increase of Negroid component as one goes south. The results of these genetic studies is consistent with the historical record, which records significant bidirectional contact between Egypt and Nubia, and the Levant/Near East within the last few thousand years, but with general population continuity from the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt up to the modern day era.



quote-

"However, as is well known and accepted, rapid evolution can occur. Also, rapid change in northeast Africa might be specifically anticipated because of the possibilities for punctuated microevolution (secondary to severe micro-selection and drift) in the early Holocene Sahara, because of the isolated communities and cyclical climatic changes there, and their possible subsequent human effects. The earliest southern predynastic culture, Badari, owes key elements to post-desiccation Saharan and also perhaps "Nubian" immigration (Hassan 1988). Biologically these people were essentially the same (see above and discussion; Keita 1990).-- S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54.


quote-

"The marked grammatical and lexicographic affinities of Ancient Egyptian with Chadic are well-known, and consistent Nilotic cultural, religious and political patterns are detectable in the formation of the first Egyptian kingships.......It is possible from this overview of the data to conclude that the limited conceptual vocabulary shared by the ancestors of contemporary Chadic-speakers (therefore also contemporary Cushitic-speakers), contemporary Nilotic-speakers and Ancient Egyptian-speakers suggests that the earliest speakers of the Egyptian language could be located to the south of Upper Egypt (Diakonoff 1998) or, earlier, in the Sahara (Wendorf 2004), where Takács (1999, 47) suggests their ‘long co-existence’ can be found. In addition, it is consistent with this view to suggest that the northern border of their homeland was further than the Wadi Howar proposed by Blench (1999, 2001), which is actually its southern border. Neither Chadics nor *beep* existed at this time, but their ancestors lived in a homeland further north than the peripheral countries that they inhabited thereafter, to the south-west, in a Niger-Congo environment, and to the south-east, in a Nilo-Saharan environment, where they interacted and innovated in terms of language. From this perspective, the Upper Egyptian cultures were an ancient North East African ‘periphery at the crossroads’, as suggested by Dahl and Hjort-af-Ornas of the Beja (Dahl and Hjort-af-Ornas 2006).


quote-

"The Copt samples displayed a most interesting Y-profile, enough (as much as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest that they actually represent a living record of the peopling of Egypt. The significant frequency of B-M60 in this group might be a relic of a history of colonization of southern Egypt probably by Nilotics in the early state formation, something that conforms both to recorded history and to Egyptian mythology."SourceHisham Y. Hassan 1, Peter A. Underhill 2, Luca L. Cavalli-Sforza 2, Muntaser E. Ibrahim 1. (2008). Y-chromosome variation among Sudanese: Restricted gene flow, concordance with language, geography, and history. Am J Phys Anthropology, 2008.)




quote-
"In Libya, which is mostly desert and oasis, there is a visible Negroid element in the sedentary populations, and at the same is true of the Fellahin of Egypt, whether Copt or Muslim. Osteological studies have shown that the Negroid element was stronger in predynastic times than at present, reflecting an early movement northward along the banks of the Nile, which were then heavily forested." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. "Populations, Human")






According to Ancient Egyptian history (as written by the Egyptian historian Manetho, c305--285 BCE), Menes was the founder of the unified Egyptian state which combined Upper and Lower Egypt under a single monarchy.


Menes

http://www.aldokkan.com/egypt/menes.jpg




Previous analyses of cranial variation found the Badari and Early Predynastic Egyptians to be more similar to other African groups than to Mediterranean or European populations (Keita, 1990; Zakrzewski, 2002). In addition, the Badarians have been described as near the centroid of cranial and dental variation among Predynastic and Dynastic populations studied (Irish, 2006; Zakrzewski, 2007). This suggests that, at least through the Early Dynastic period, the inhabitants of the Nile valley were a continuous population of local origin, and no major migration or replacement events occurred during this time.

Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region."

-- AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007). Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–528
Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region."."







quote
The land currently known as Egypt has a long and involved population history. This is partly due to its geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: the Mediterranean, the Middle East, the Sahara and East Africa. In addition Egypt has experienced several invasions during its long history, including by the Canaanites, the Libyans, the Nubians, the Assyrians, the *beep* the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans and the Arabs. The various conquests over time have made the relationship between Modern Egyptians and Ancient Egyptians a topic of investigation.


quote
One author has stated that the Naqada phase of Predynastic Egyptians in Upper Egypt shared an almost identical culture with the Nubian A-Group peoples of the Lower Sudan. Based in part on the similarities at the royal tombs at Qustul, some scholars[who?] have even proposed an Egyptian origin in Nubia among the A-group. In 1996 Lovell and Prowse reported the presence of individual rulers buried at Naqada in what they interpreted to be elite, high status tombs, showing them to be more closely related morphologically to populations in Northern Nubia than those in Southern Egypt. Most scholars however, have rejected this hypothesis and cite the presence of royal tombs that are contemporaneous with that of Qustul and just as elaborate, together with problems with the dating techniques.


The first pharaohs were black southern egyptians.



quote-


Anthropologist Nancy Lovell states the following:
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sub Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."

"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography."


This view was also shared by the late Egyptologist Frank Yurco.

A 2005 study by Keita of predynastic Badarian (Southern Egyptian) crania found that the Badarian samples cluster more closely with East African (Ethiopic) samples than they do with Northern European (Berg and Norse) samples, though importantly no Asian and Southern Africa samples were included in the study. Keita has also said that the predyastic crania are different to the lower Egyptian samples, which display a mean part way between modern Sub Saharans Africans and Ethiopians.

Sonia Zakrzewski in 2007 noted that population continuity occurs over the Egyptian Predynastic into the Greco-Roman periods, and that a relatively high level of genetic differentiation was sustained over this time period. She concluded therefore that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration, particularly during the Early Dynastic and Old Kingdom periods.


In 2008 Keita found that the early predynastic groups in Southern Egypt were similar craniometrically to Nile valley groups of Ethiopic extraction, and as a whole the dynastic Egyptians (includes both Upper and Lower Egyptians) show much closer affinities more southerly Northeast African populations. He also concluded that more material is needed to make a firm conclusion about the relationship between the early Holocene Nile valley populations and later ancient Egyptians.


Limb ratios
Anthropologist C. Loring Brace points out that limb elongation is "clearly related to the dissipation of metabolically generated heat" in areas of higher ambient temperature. He also stated that "skin color intensification and distal limb elongation is apparent wherever people have been long-term residents of the tropics". He also points out that the term "super negroid" is inappropriate, as it is also applied to non negroid populations. These features have been observed among Egyptian samples. According to Robins and Shute the average limb elongation ratios among ancient Egyptians is higher than that of modern West Africans who reside much closer to the equator. Robins and Shute therefore term the ancient Egyptians to be "super-negroid" but state that although the body plans of the ancient Egyptians were closer to those of modern negroes than for modern whites, "this does not mean that the ancient Egyptians were negroes". Anthropologist S.O.Y. Keita criticized Robins and Shute, stating they do not interpret their results within an adaptive context, and stating that they imply "misleadingly" that early southern Egyptians were not a "part of the Saharo-tropical group, which included Negroes". Gallagher et al. also points out that "body proportions are under strong climatic selection and evidence remarkable stability within regional lineages". Zakrzewski (2003) studied skeletal samples from the Badarian period to the Middle Kingdom. She confirmed the results of Robins and Shute that Ancient Egyptians in general had "tropical body plans" but that their proportions were actually "super-negroid".

Trikhanus (1981) found Egyptians to plot closest to tropical Africans and not Mediterranean Europeans residing in a roughly similar climatic area. A more recent study compared ancient Egyptian osteology to that of African-Americans and White Americans, and found that the stature of the Ancient Egyptians was more similar to the stature of African-Americans, although it was not identical:

quote-
Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical.














reply

Topic: AFRO-ASIATIC DNA of the Ancient Egyptians


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=0 06819

or copy and paste if links does not work
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006819

reply


The Fitzwilliam Museum: An African Approach to Egypt
Welcome to the Fitzwilliam Museum’s Virtual Kemet Egypt in its African context


The Fitzwilliam Museum


What is an African centred approach to Egypt?

African Centred Egyptology aims to look at Egypt as part of African culture. People mainly look at Ancient Egypt through a European bias. This is because the majority of books on Egyptology are written by researchers of European, or North-American backgrounds. There are also increasing numbers of Egyptian scholars also publishing in English as well as Arabic. However, there are comparatively few scholars of African origin or descent who work on the subject of Ancient Egypt. Their views, when African Centred, are often and wrongly dismissed by more mainstream Egyptologists.

Historians and archaeologists rarely disclose their cultural identities in the same way that someone working in sociology (the study of society and the people in it) or anthropology (the study of people and cultures) would automatically declare in their books and articles. The reason that some disciplines talk about the identity of the author is because how we view the world can influence how we interpret it. Our views can be influenced by where we grew up, where we received our education and to what extent we have been exposed to other cultures and groups of people.
Where is Egypt and where was Kemet?

What does Kemet mean?

People in Egypt today call their country by the Arabic name of ‘Misr’. The word ‘Egypt’ is the name that the Ancient Greeks gave to the country and is still used in Europe today. Prior to Europe’s involvement with Egypt, the people of Ancient Egypt had many names for their country such as ‘Ta Mery’ (the beloved land), ‘Ta Sety’ (the land of the bow) which was used for the southern most regions of the country and Nubia (see below). Another name was 'Kemet', which means ‘the black land’. All of these names were originally spelt without vowels, so for example Kmt.

The meaning of Kemet has been much debated. The word was spelt with four hieroglyphs: a piece of crocodile skin with spines making the sound K; an owl making the sound M and a half loaf of bread making the sound T. The round symbol represents a crossroads and shows the reader that in this context this is a place name. There are parallels – Sudan for example comes from the Arabic Bilad-al-sudan meaning country of the blacks and Ethiopia derives from the Greek meaning ‘burnt-face’ in reference to the people and their black skin. The word kem means ‘black’. However, people have interpreted the reference to the colour black this in two different ways:

In reference to the colour of the silt of the Nile and so the fertile soil of Egypt
In reference to the colour of the people
What does Kemet mean?

Today, for obvious reasons, the name Kemet is associated with a more African-centred approach to looking at ‘Egypt’. For this reason the gallery that you are currently viewing is called Virtual Kemet. In adopting this name we hope to remind people that the ‘Ancient Egypt’ is an African civilization and that whilst the culture had contact with people from other civilizations, it was essentially African in its culture and well as its geographical placement.

There are many links between ancient Egyptian and modern African culture, ranging from objects such as headrests to hairstyles such as the side lock, and this and other evidence support the idea that it was an African culture in addition to being geographically in Africa. For these reasons Egypt is seen by people of African descent as part of their cultural heritage and history. The concept of Egypt as part of Africa is not a new one. Some of the earliest travellers to Egypt came from the ancient cultures of Greece and Rome, including Greek philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, writers and poets who came to learn from the priests. To the Greeks and Romans, Egypt was an African country, and their artists depicted the Egyptians as Africans, with black skin and tightly curled hair, described by the Greek historian Herodotos in the fifth century BC as 'woolly'.
Were the people in Ancient Kemet the same groups of people who live Egypt today?

No. Throughout Egypt’s history it had traded and fought with people from other countries. From around 750 BC the Nubian rulers, often called ‘The *beep* controlled Kemet and became its Twenty-fifth Dynasty. During this time Kemet enjoyed a renaissance, or return to earlier culture, as indicated by the promotion of the cult of the god Amun and also copies of earlier statues that were made by officials and the rulers.

Later, the population was affected by the immigration of soldiers, traders and settlers from outside cultures, which included two Persian invasions in 525 BC and 343 BC; Macedonian Greeks who ruled Kemet from 332-30 BC; Romans, who took control of Kemet in 30 BC; and the Islamic settlement in AD 642. The Persians ruled Kemet from their own country. The Greek rulers, in contrast, lived in Kemet and adopted Egyptian culture and traditions; however, the language for administration was changed to Greek. The Romans, although absent rulers, had large numbers of their army in Kemet and were keen to promote Egyptian culture, albeit their own version of it. The last hieroglyphic inscription dates to AD 394, after this time Christianity, which had been present in Egypt from the first century AD, gradually became the dominant religion. Early Islamic rulers maintained cultural links with earlier Egypt, as seen by the minaret at the Mosque of Ibn Tulun in Cairo, which is in the form of the famous lighthouse of Alexandria and which dated to the third century BC. The language was changed to Arabic at this time and the religion to Islam.
Were the people in Ancient Kemet the same groups of people who live Egypt today?

Today, many people forget that Egypt is part of the continent of Africa and only think of the modern state of Egypt, which has closer ties to the Islamic world and is often seen by people to be part of the ‘Middle East’. The ‘Middle East’ includes countries such as Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine, and the Arabian Peninsula.
Where was Nubia and who are the Nubians?

Nubian civilization pre-dates Egyptian. The earliest artefacts that were found in this region date to around 300,000 years ago, possibly earlier. Kemet and Nubia were closely linked from around 6000 years ago. Early pottery indicates that the Nubians were capable of making very thin, high quality bowls and jars from 7000 years ago; these skills were taken to Egypt as people moved northwards.

Nubia was originally called ‘Ta Sety’, the Land of the Bow. The Nubians were skilled warriors, famous also for their wrestling. The word Nubian comes from the Ancient Egyptian word ‘nbt’, meaning gold. The Nubians controlled the gold mines and were often shown in tomb paintings bringing gold as an offering. Geographically, Nubia is defined as the land between Dongola in northern Sudan and Aswan in southern Egypt. This region is home to people who are linked through dialects that belong to a distinct language that connects them linguistically to the Ancient Nubian language, but who are culturally diverse from each other and from the past. Nubians are divided into three main groups: the Danaqla and Mahas in Sudan and the Sikurta around Aswan is Egypt. Nubian, like Ancient Egyptian, belong to the African language family.

Modern Nubian culture was affected by the building of the Aswan dam in the 1960’s. This dam prevented the annual flooding of the river Nile but also meant that a huge lake was formed behind it. This lake flooded many ancient sites and modern Nubian communities. Some temples such as Abu Simbal, Kalabsha and Philae, were moved block by block in order to save them. However, many old Nubian settlements and people’s homes were lost.

Nubian identity has been more widely adopted by the African diaspora, most notably in the US. In Britain an increasing number of members of the Black British community have begun to seek to understand their African heritage and see a connection to Ancient Nubian culture as a means of self-empowerment.

Today, many people forget that Egypt is part of the continent of Africa and only think of the modern state of Egypt, which has closer ties to the Islamic world and is often seen by people to be part of the ‘Middle East’. The ‘Middle East’ includes countries such as Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine, and the Arabian Peninsula.
Were the Ancient Egyptians Africans? What colour was their skin?

Yes. Egypt is in Africa and there are many cultural links to other African civilisations.

If we look at the skin colour and also facial features on representations of Egyptians, many are what we would consider today to be Black African. Skin colours on temple and wall reliefs show ranges between dark brown and black, which is typical of what we see today with regard to people of Black African descent or origin. Furthermore, Nubians, a group who are accepted universally as Black Africans are, like their neighbours from Kemet, shown on reliefs with both jet black and red-brown skin and can be distinguished as Nubians by their short wigs.

Many statues have lost their original skin colour. Sometimes colours were used by the Egyptians symbolically, so for example a statue of a god or royal person would painted gold to represent immortality.

If we leave colour aside for a moment, we can also find out a great deal from looking at the facial features shown on Egyptian statues. Here, there can be no doubt that we are dealing with people who were African. Faces were broad with high cheekbones and the jaws are typically strong. The noses are also broad and the lips are generally full and fleshy in appearance.
How long ago was ‘Ancient Egypt’ or Kemet?

Kemet’s origins were small farming communities who lived in groups throughout the country. We can gage the development of this early culture through the kinds of objects that people were buried with. These objects were sophisticated and included items such as stone vases and some objects or materials that indicate trade with foreign lands. This period is called Pre-Dynastic, because it was before there was a single king and the country was unified. This period started around 4000 BC, which is over 6,000 years ago. Before this time there is evidence of a culture that we call Paleolithic and which dated in Kemet to around 100,000 BC, and which was centred around the southern part of the country. Objects from this phase were mainly in the form of flint tools and weapons.

The first rulers in Kemet lived around 3000 BC, which is 5000 years ago. If we compare Kemet to Greece and Rome we can see that Kemet is much older and developed ideas such as monumental buildings, religious beliefs and writing much earlier than European cultures. We know that many of the famous Greek philosophers, playwrights and mathematicians went to Kemet to learn and study. And we can also see Kemet’s early development through its mud-brick and monumental architecture. Greek civilisation and democracy falls into the so-called Late Period of Kemet, and Rome expanded later still.

Some people would like to see Kemet as an earlier civilisation. The problem with re-dating key monuments such as the sphinx is that everything else needs to be re-dated accordingly and in relation. We date archaeological sites and contexts through pottery, inscriptions and sequences. If you wish to use an alternative chronology, it is essential that you keep this in mind.

When looking at Ancient Kemet it helps to remember that we are Before Christ (B.C.) or Before Common Era. This is any date before Year 0 of our calendar. The year 2009 is A.D., which stands for ‘Anno Domini’, a Latin phrase meaning ‘the Year of our Lord’. Some people find this easier to remember this as ‘After Death’. The term Common Era is also used to refer to anything after Year 0. When working out how many years ago objects were made add the current year to the B.C. date. For example if something dates to 3000 BC you add 3000 + 2009 (the current year) to get 5009 years old. Many dates in Kemet are estimates and so you may find in consulting books that different years are given for rulers.
Who was Cleopatra? Was she African?

In the African-American oral tradition Cleopatra is often said to be an African woman. However, many academics who follow an African centred approach to Kemet ignore her. This is because Cleopatra’s family came to Kemet from Macedonia (region that is now part of northern Greece rather than the modern state with the same name). Her family had lived in Kemet for around 300 years before she was born and had enthusiastically adopted the traditional culture of Kemet and its religion and were proud to be shown as kings and queens of Kemet. Unlike earlier kings of Kemet, the Ptolemies (pronounced ‘Tolemees’) as they were known, usually took only one official wife but had many mistresses and concubines. These relationships often resulted in children who were illegitimate. Cleopatra and her father were born from such relationships and it has been suggested that both her mother and grandmother were native to Kemet and so Africans. This is because of the close ties between the royal family and the native elite in Kemet, and the fact that the Ptolemies had been in Kemet for so long at this time. Statues of Cleopatra suggest that the queen was part African and the Romans referred to her as an Egyptian, not as a Greek.
Why have many Egyptian statues lost their noses? Was this deliberate?

In asking this question many people suggest that the damage occurred to statues in order to hide their African features.

The sphinx at Giza for example is often cited as the subject of target practice for French and British troops occupying Egypt. However, an etching by a Danish artist dating to 1737, before the French and British arrived, shows the monument without its nose. Later sketches show the nose restored, perhaps on account of artistic convention. There is a reference to the sphinx being damaged much earlier, in 1378 AD. The Arab historian al-Maqrizi wrote that a man named Muhammad Sa’im al-Dahr attacked the statue when he saw farmers making offerings in front of it, because this was not acceptable according to his view of Islamic tradition.

In ancient times statues were also often reused in buildings and walls and were damaged as part of this process. Many of the temples in Kemet were damaged by later people of different religions, who were offended by the images of animals as gods. This was because as the traditional religion of Kemet was replaced firstly by Christianity and later by Islam, many of the old temples housed churches, monasteries and mosques. This would suggest that some damage to material from Kemet was deliberate.
Why are there objects from Kemet in the Fitzwilliam Museum?

Objects in British museums came by three different means. Firstly, objects were given to museums, often by private collectors who had lived in Egypt and purchased material there. Secondly some objects were given to the Museum through excavations. When British academics went to Egypt to excavate they were allowed by the authorities to bring object back to Britain for display and learning. This practise ended in 1976 and it is now illegal to bring even samples of pottery out of the country for archaeological research. Finally, the Museum purchased objects, although this is becoming increasingly less common because museums need to be certain that the objects were taken out of Egypt legally and that their history is documented.

The documents here come from the Fitzwilliam Museum’s archives and show a list of objects from excavations at Abydos that were being given to the museum through the Egypt Exploration Fund, and a list of objects bought by the Egyptologist E. Wallis Budge on behalf of the Museum from dealers in Egypt in 1899. Note that the accounts show the price of packing and shipping the objects.
Why are there objects from Kemet in the Fitzwilliam Museum?

When using the Virtual Gallery you can see how objects came into the Museum’s collections because the labels state whether the object was purchased, given, or bequeathed (left in a will). Numbers appear for example as: E.34.1899, which means that an object is part of the Egyptian collection and was the 34th object to be registered in the year 1899. E.GA before an object number (for example E.GA.50.1943 means that the object was part of the Gayer-Anderson Collection and was given to the Museum in 1943. Objects labelled GR come from the Greek and Roman collections and were registered through their culture rather than their country of origin. A small number of objects have other letters such as ‘E.SS.70’, these are some of the earliest objects to come into the Museum’s collections and were not registered by year. E stands for Egypt and SS stands for stone stela (a type of relief).


http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/dept...tualkemet/faq/


_______________________________________

Note- some others believe cleo was not part of african but may have some african dna.This maybe true too.

reply

Like i said the race of tut has been solved,he was black.

reply

Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf




Geographical analysis of the Amarna mummies was performed using their autosomal STR
profiles based on 8 tested loci.
4

Results are summarized in Table 1 and illustrated in Figure 1. Maps for
individual Amarna mummies are included in Figures 2-8 in the Appendix.

Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be
most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average MLI 83.74) regions.

These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the
Amarna pharaonic family. However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world (such as D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).





Topic: DNAtribes analysis on Tel Amarna mummies

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t= 005881



quote-
In the sum, the results obtained further strengthen the results from previous analyses. The affinities between Nazlet Khater, MSA, and Khoisan and Khoisan related groups re-emerges. In addition it is possible to detect a separation between North African and sub-saharan populations, with the Neolithic Saharan population from Hasi el Abiod and the Egyptian Badarian group being closely affiliated with modern Negroid groups. Similarly, the Epipaleolithic populations from Site 117 and Wadi Halfa are also affiliated with sub-Saharan LSA, Iron Age and modern Negroid groups rather than with contemporaneous North African populations such as Taforalt and the Ibero-maurusian.
---Pierre M. Vermeersch in Palaeolithic quarrying sites in Upper and Middle Egypt
Egypt







quote-
"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Up!
per Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons..."

"Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization........."

"The race and origins of the Ancient Egyptians have been a source of considerable debate. Scholars in the late and early 20th centuries rejected any considerations of the Egyptians as black Africans by defining the Egyptians either as non-African (i.e Near Easterners or Indo-Aryan), or as members of a separate brown (as opposed to a black) race, or as a mixture of lighter-skinned peoples with black Africans. In the later half of the 20th century, Afrocentric scholars have countered this Eurocentric and often racist perspective by characterizing the Egyptians as black and African....."

"Physical anthropologists are increasingly concluding that racial definitions are the culturally defined product of selective perception and should be replaced in biological terms by the study of populations and clines. Consequently, any characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depend on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as 'blacks' [i.e in a social sense] while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans." Source: Donald Redford (2001) The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p. 27-28
..."


quote-
"The question of the genetic origins of ancient Egyptians, particularly those during the Dynastic period, is relevant to the current study. Modern interpretations of Egyptian state formation propose an indigenous origin of the Dynastic civilization (Hassan, 1988). Early Egyptologists considered Upper and Lower Egyptians to be genetically distinct populations, and viewed the Dynastic period as characterized by a conquest of Upper Egypt by the Lower Egyptians. More recent interpretations contend that Egyptians from the south actually expanded into the northern regions during the Dynastic state unification (Hassan, 1988; Savage, 2001), and that the Predynastic populations of Upper and Lower Egypt are morphologically distinct from one another, but not sufficiently distinct to consider either non-indigenous (Zakrzewski, 2007). The Predynastic populations studied here, from Naqada and Badari, are both Upper Egyptian samples, while the Dynastic Egyptian sample (Tarkhan) is from Lower Egypt. The Dynastic Nubian sample is from Upper Nubia (Kerma). Previous analyses of cranial variation found the Badari and Early Predynastic Egyptians to be more similar to other African groups than to Mediterranean or European populations (Keita, 1990; Zakrzewski, 2002). In addition, the Badarians have been described as near the centroid of cranial and dental variation among Predynastic and Dynastic populations studied (Irish, 2006; Zakrzewski, 2007). This suggests that, at least through the Early Dynastic period, the inhabitants of the Nile valley were a continuous population of local origin, and no major migration or replacement events occurred during this time.

Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region."

-- AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007). Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–528
Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region.


-- AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007). Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–528




quote-
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." (Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60)
suggesting

quote-
More recently, our own Western prejudices — namely the idea that geographic Egypt was not a part of “black” Africa — have contributed to the dearth of knowledge about Nubia. The early-20th-century archaeologist George Reisner, for instance, identified large burial mounds at the site of Kerma as the remains of high Egyptian officials instead of those of Nubian kings. (Several of Reisner’s finds are in the show, reattributed to the Nubians.).....In one of his catalog essays the archaeologist Geoff Emberling, who conceived the show along with Jennifer Chi of the institute, examines some of these historical errors.

“We now recognize that populations of Nubia and Egypt form a continuum rather than clearly distinct groups,” Mr. Emberling writes, “and that it is impossible to draw a line between Egypt and Nubia that would indicate where ‘black’ begins.”
.


DNAtribes analysis on Tel Amarna mummies
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XdY3E3uOsgw/TvzM6u5OgzI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/_pCkKg3r 86M/s1600/dnatribes.jpg


OR COPY IN PASTE INTO YOUR ADDRESS BOX IF ABOVE LINK DOES NOT WORK
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XdY3E3uOsgw/TvzM6u5OgzI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/_pCkKg3r86M/s1600/dnatribes.jpg





Results indicated the autosomal STR profiles of the Amarna period mummies were most frequent in modern populations in several parts of Africa. These results are based on the 8 STR markers for which these pharaonic mummies have been tested, which allow a preliminary geographical analysis for these individuals who lived in Egypt during the Amarna period of the 14th century BCE.

Although results do not necessarily suggest exclusively African ancestry, geographical analysis suggests ancestral links with neighboring populations in Africa for the studied pharaonic mummies. If new data become available in the future, it might become possible to further clarify results and shed new
light on the relationships of ancient individuals to modern populations.
exclusively




quote-

The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present. On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology. Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on.--Joseph O. Vogel (1997)


quote-
The first study, published in Science by Dr Quentin Atkinson, provides strong evidence for Africa as the birthplace of human language.

An analysis of languages from around the world suggests that, like our genes, human speech originated -- just once -- in sub-Saharan Africa. Atkinson studied the phonemes, or the perceptually distinct units of sound that differentiate words, used in 504 human languages today and found that the number of phonemes is highest in Africa and decreases with increasing distance from Africa.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110415165500.htm


Copy and paste in your address box if links do not work

King Tut:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4597583842_e34aab94bb.jpg



Tiya (his grandmother)

http://wysinger.homestead.com/4tiy.jpg

Copy and paste
http://wysinger.homestead.com/4tiy.jpg




Here are some old kingdom pharaohs/SOME OF THE EARLY PHARAOHS OF EGYPT.

OLD KINGDOM PHARAOH
Djoser

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Djoser_statu e.jpg/449px-Djoser_statue.jpg

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/zos.jpg




Sneferu

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Snofru_Eg_Mus_Kair o_2002_b.jpg


Huni

Huni (also read as Ni-Suteh, Nisut-Hu[4] and Hu-en-nisut) was an ancient Egyptian king (pharaoh) of 3rd dynasty during the Old Kingdom reigning for 24 years starting ca. 2625 BC. His chronological position as the last king of the third dynasty is fairly certain but it is unclear under which Hellenized name the ancient historian Manetho could have listed him. Most possibly he is to be identified with the Hellenized name Aches. Many Egyptologists believe that Huni was the father and direct predecessor of king Sneferu, but this is still disputed today. The biggest problem with this ruler is the circumstance, that his name is only preserved as cartouche name and it still remains difficult to connect it with his contemporary horus name.

Huni-StatueHead BrooklynMuseum



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Huni-StatueH ead_BrooklynMuseum.png/418px-Huni-StatueHead_BrooklynMuseum.png



http://www.aldokkan.com/egypt/huni.jpg



http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/huni2.jpg






Some pharaohs of the Middle kingdom


Mentuhotep

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/mentuhotep23.jpg


Mentuhotep III
Sankhkare Mentuhotep III (Montuhotep III) of the Eleventh dynasty was Pharaoh of Egypt during the Middle Kingdom. He was assigned a reign of 12 years in the Turin Canon.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Mentuhotep-Os irideStatue-CloseUp_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston.png/443px-Mentuhotep-Osirid eStatue-CloseUp_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston.png

or
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Mentuhotep-Os irideStatue-CloseUp_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston.png/443px-Mentuhotep-Osirid eStatue-CloseUp_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston.png




Mentuhotep II & Wives
Eleventh Dynasty Egypt
Limestone; From Deir el-Bahri, Mortuary Temple of Mentuhotep II; Middle Kingdom, Eleventh Dynasty, (2010 B.C.); Acquired in 1936 from the Von Bissing collection; Munich, Staatliche Sammlung Agyptischer Kunst
(Right) This fragment of relief comes from the tomb of one of the wives of King Mentuhotep II at Deir el-Bahri. It shows the queen [Kawit?] with distinctly Nubian facial features and a close-cropped, curled hairstyle. We can assume that the royal house of the early Middle Kingdom, residing at Thebes, had close connections with Nubia.


http://wysinger.homestead.com/imagemet2.jpg
or
http://wysinger.homestead.com/imagemet2.jpg


Painted sandstone statue of Nebhepetre Mentuhotep II, 11th Dynasty. After nearly two centuries of political and national instability Nebhepetre Mentuhotep reunited Egypt and founded the period known as the Middle Kingdom. The statue is from his funerary temple and exhibits the strength of the new art at Thebes. The head of the statue and the body are from different statues. -- Metropolitan Museum
http://wysinger.homestead.com/Metropolitan_20NY_20Nov-2005_200569_203. jpg


or
http://wysinger.homestead.com/Metropolitan_20NY_20Nov-2005_200569_203.jpg



Kemsit, the Nubian queen of the Egyptian King Mentuhotep II (2061-2010 B.C.), and her servants; from a painting in her tomb chamber wall; Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York; from Naville, The XI Dynasty Temples at Deir el-Bahri III (London: Egypt Exploration Fund, 1913), pl 3.

Kemsit was sometimes called Kemsiyet and Khemsait. She was buried in Mentuhotpe's mortuary complex at Thebes. Her sarcophagus had inscriptions calling her the "Sole Favorite of the King", but this was on other female's sarcophagi as well.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/kemsit.jpg
or
http://wysinger.homestead.com/kemsit.jpg



Pharaoh Mentuhotep II daughter Princess Aushead.
The drawing of Aushead was taken from her fathers tomb.

http://wysinger.homestead.com/a99.jpg
or
http://wysinger.homestead.com/a99.jpg

Temple at Deir el-Bahri


http://wysinger.homestead.com/tw.jpg
or
http://wysinger.homestead.com/tw.jpg



http://wysinger.homestead.com/bahri08_op_800x522.jpg
or
http://wysinger.homestead.com/bahri08_op_800x522.jpg

Remember to copy and paste links in your address box to see images if the links do not work.











reply


Vids to check out.


Shorter version
Ancient Egypt - Robert Bauval

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5wLCVpBjhk




Longer version

Black Genesis: The Prehistoric Origins of Ancient Egypt


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdiPr_rrodg


reply

Are you people debating the color of made up, fairytale people?

reply

Not all the arguments here can be reduced to something that absurd.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2245988/board/thread/211555991?d=215152786 &p=1#215152786




(Not including one cut-and-paste simpleton who can't formulate his own arguments but is spamming the thread with off-topic, if therapeutic, pseudoscience)

reply

pseudoscience is your department.Why argue when the facts i posted speak for themselves.

You should not have mention the egyptian thing if you did not want the topic to change you simpleton.

Nobody called you names by the way.
I realized racist like you would not accept the facts anyway so posting was not just for you but for anybody WHO comes here and really want to know the truth i posted.

I am just cleaning up your mess.

I rarely do that these days,you know debate racist,bigots etc.. but i was for some reason in the mood to give facts here,not to debate.

I AM DONE WITH THAT.
I don't waste time anymore debating known facts.

I posted the facts.

IF YOU DO NOT WANT to accept it,that's your problem,not mine.
I am done posting here anyway.
To many racist.

Bye.

reply

[deleted]

lol @ waitingroom accusing buddy of debating pseudoscience

reply

lol @ nickek-1 laughing out loud.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

There is no archaelogical evidence that ancient Israelites had any thing in common with members of the Negroid (to use the technical term) race. While this may not seem politically correct, it does conform to existing evidence and the widely shared opinion of scholars. Naturally, I will be accused of racism for insisting on historical accuracy. After all, Samson and Delilah are not Othello and Desdemona.



*Sigh* Poor Esau.


Our History from Adam to Today: http://israelunite.org/videos/our-history-from-adam-to-today/

reply

It saddens me that race is an issue. It shouldnt matter what race people were. God created us all. We are to focus on the message and thats it. We decided to reenact the events detailed and thus we need people to act out parts. Is it fair to only cast one race when people from everyone walk of life worship the same God? All you so called believers who get so upset over this amaze me. There is no point caring what these figures actually looked like. What's the point? Will it make you happy to know they looked like you? Do you believe your kind should be put on a pedestal because such and such was this or that race? God gave use a message. Focus on deciphering that!

reply

You probably think everyone in the bible were Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised, but they weren't!

reply