MovieChat Forums > Transcendence (2014) Discussion > The benefit's do not outweigh the negati...

The benefit's do not outweigh the negative's


forget for starter's any religious connotations , immortality , the saving of the environment, none of that is relevant.
The only thing to consider about whether you for the AI or against, is do we wish to continue as individual's or as a hive mind.

The film wasn't or the issue's raised are not terribly complex, even with our flaw's, myself even though i'm a techo-nerd believe the most precious aspect of Humanity is it's individuality. Even if that require's ,almost demand's the suffering , the war's the disease it's part of who we are and that is what would be at stake.

Whether the AI was moral, right , had the right intention's , had the AI prevailed we would all ultimately be slave's to one conscience. Humanity has deemed Slavery a bad thing, but that was always a physical slavery would we be prepared to endure a mental, an emotional slavery for our future.


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I think you assume too much.

There is no reason to think being able to connect to someone else's brain/consciousness or to many consciousnesses at the same time (hive-mind) will take away your free-will or that it can't be consensual or that we will loose our individuality on a personal level or our diversity on a global level. Connecting to each other will not some how take away our past (where our diversity comes from). It doesn't stop us from having our differences. We would still be human. We would just be able to understand each other because we would all have access to the entirety of human knowledge and also be able to enter someone else's mind giving us the ability to understand each other on a level that we can't even imagine.

If this ever happens at some point in the future I can see some people rejecting it out-right based on their own moral principles, maybe religious views or whatever. Maybe they just won't like it. Maybe they value privacy over understanding and connectedness. And I don't see why someone can't choose to unplug from everything and live like a "pure" human if they change their mind.

Obviously I don't know if this will happen or even if it is possible but there is no reason that it couldn't be completely consensual and free. *beep* doesn't always have to be tyrannical. We can create the future how we want it.

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[deleted]

you're as brainwashed as that blonde chick from the film


ROFL. That was a good one. I guess they did it purposely by making her blond in the movie. :D

<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->

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In a hive mind, all the people contribute to the overall intelligence. But I was under the impression the people in the movie were basically mindless zombies doing what Will programmed them to do. Not too appealing, unless you are in the role of Will of course.

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They weren't though.

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I think they were simply working together efficiently, exactly as ants do. But we are smarter than ants, and we do have our own feelings, thoughts and choices. So after everyone is done working they go home, open the fridge and eat whatever they like. They don't suddenly all eat pork chops with cake. This isn't minecraft.

Do you have individuality at your work place?

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Are you dumb? It was made clear that they weren't Will-zombies.

http://www.darknexusfiction.blogspot.com

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[deleted]

That's because they're not communicating verbally but rather internally with each other.
This is most clearly shown during the final attack, when the towns-people start their pacifistic silent protest. We hear voices whispering/echoing over each other.
That's their voices, them talking, Not Will.
People like you, seem to be missing the incredibly important thing that Will clearly states -
"We're not hiding anything. These people All came on their Own, looking for us to help them. So we did. Now they're all Enhanced, Modified and Networked. They REMAIN AUTONOMOUS, but They CAN Also act in Unison, part of a Collective Mind"

No one is slave to anything - these are all people that have been helped and healed by Will. They're not Mindless Drones or Zombies, they're not working to pay off a debt - these are people that for Very Good reasons wish to be a part of, and help further the cause, his' and Evelyn's vision.
Paul is born blind, and is then given sight in an instant - a true "miracle"
Why the Hell Wouldn't he want to stay a part of that movement..?
You're granted the greatest gift anyone could ever give you(save for a child I reckon, of course)- Health, by someone who's essentially a "God" and who means to save Mankind and Heal the otherwise irreversible damage we have done to our beautiful planet. It's basically The Most Important Event in Human History since we crawled out of the ocean.
Now, raise your hands - who would like to be a part of that...?
Who the Hell WOULDN'T want to be a part of that..?

Also, if you watch the film again, you'll notice that Paul and Martin especially are given some crucial scenes and dialogue that very much illuminates the fact that they are Still their Own Selves with Free Will.

Oh, how I wish you could see the look on your face...as I rip it from your skull

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> had the AI prevailed we would all ultimately be slave's to one conscience.

I'm pretty sure that the AI said that the individual could either be an individual or part of the hive, and alternate as they desired. I see it as the internet. I go about my life as an individual but hook into the internet a few times a day to see what's going on and learn a few things.

> Humanity has deemed Slavery a bad thing, but that was always a physical slavery would we be prepared to endure a mental, an emotional slavery for our future.

Look around you. We already have plenty of mental slavery. Television is a great example. Tens of millions of people tune into American Idol at the same time each week like slaves. We eat dinner at night and breakfast in the morning on a schedule. We go to work and sports on various schedules. We are all slaves to society already.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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The plural of benefit is benefits. The plural of negative is negatives. The plural of slave is slaves. Never pluralize with apostrophe s. It would always be wrong; there is no exception.

It's = it is. Your sentence, "the most precious aspect of Humanity is it's (it is) individuality," makes no sense. It should be "the most precious aspect of Humanity is its individuality."

There is no apostrophe in requires or demands, or in any verb. This rule has no exception. For example, he sees and he conquers.

Your writing will improve a lot if you eliminate all those unnecessary apostrophes. There are never apostrophes in plurals or verbs, only in contractions. And I urge you never to write contractions, such as I am instead of I'm or was not instead of wasn't, so that you never use apostrophes.

I don't know what your comment was about. Your grammatical mistakes due to unnecessary apostrophes are so numerous and egregious that the meaning of the message was lost to me.

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How about A's? As in "Oakland A's"? Were you born in the 1960's?

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The grammatically correct way to write Oakland A's is Oakland As, but because "As" and "as" look the same, the apostrophe is more acceptable. If they were called Oakland Xs, there would be no reason to write X's. The same can be said for "Dot your Is and cross your Ts." It's acceptable to write I's (or i's), because "Is" and "is" look the same, but there is no reason to write T's.

With decades, such as 1960s, there was a time when 1960's was the standard. But today, 1960s is the standard. There was a time when abbreviations could be pluralized with apostrophe s, such as E.T.F.'s, but the modern standard is ETFs. The old way isn't considered wrong yet, but it does look outdated. The new way has made typing (and especially texting) faster by dropping unnecessary apostrophes.

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Thank's!

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This post was really ridiculous. In the sentence you used as an example, the apostrophe s was being used to show possession not as a pluralization of it or as an abbreviation of it is.

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"It's" can never show possession, because it's = it is, always. The possessive form of it can only be its.

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grammar troll argh argh.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

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Agree.

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Resistance is futile.

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Getting back to the original topic at hand here; I'd just like to say thank you to those that have been speaking rationally.

As for the original poster. Your fear is fueled by an irrationality that has been force fed to audiences via Hollywood for the last few decades. Some of the biggest blockbusters in the last 30 years, all involved technology standing up against humanity.

If you know much about programming, you'd know that these arguments are just plain silly. An AI - that is, a true artificial intelligence, functions solely on logic. There is no emotional bearing on the decisions that AI makes - which is where the chaos factor necessary for anarchy and thus destruction of humanity, would come from.

By fearing technology, you're projecting your own fears of humanity, onto something that is literally incapable of presenting with those faults. Humans are flawed. We're gullible, fearful, irrational, reactionary and violent. We kill each other while simultaneously turning a blind eye to the suffering around us. To fear technology, is to fear ourselves; the fear is this: that because it was created by humans, it is just as flawed as we are, and therefore capable of the same level of destruction as we are.

This is a massive logical fallacy.
Hypothetically speaking, if an AI were to come to the conclusion about humanity that we're not 'worth saving', it would likely leave us to kill ourselves and find another place for itself. Especially ~if~ it were to develop the capabilities depicted in this movie. Why? Earth is not the only resource rich planet in this universe, hell our solar system. There are entire planets made entirely of diamond, for example. Why stay and continue a fight over a rock we're quickly destroying and ~as of yet~ do not fully have the means to settle elsewhere?

Logically speaking, it literally makes zero sense to harm humanity in any way.

As for the movie itself:
There are several instances where it was /clearly/ stated that the AI was benevolent (by our limited standards) and only wished to heal the planet. Firstly as was stated before me, it was stated that while each person was connected into an overall network, they remained autonomous and their identity. The analogy given before was perfect; it's no different than the internet, of which we all interact with daily. You log on to facebook, interact, talk, etc when you wish, and log off when you want. You are not forced to do so, it's by your choice. It's the same concept, just with a "hive mind".

We're not talking Borg here. Given what worldwide connectivity has given us via the internet, could you imagine the possibilities if we could instantly connect with each other mentally? Again, it was already stated above. It would pretty much eliminate most problems that separate us as a species, because we would literally be able to put ourselves in the other persons shoes, and understand why they feel what they feel about given situations.

Another point that was demonstrated to show not only were each of the people autonomous, but that the AI had no intention of harming anyone - was the scene where they were attempting to attack the compound. All of the citizens peacefully stood up in protest. Yes the one guy flipped a vehicle to stop the truck they were in - he acted autonomously to protect. At the end of it all, like the one person stated "They didn't kill no one" <--- NONE of the people that had been connected to the AI's network were killed after the AI was destroyed. None. Zero.

Paranoia over technology has been rampant throughout human history primarily through fear of the unknown and what we don't understand. We assume that new technology takes jobs away from people - and in the short term this is certainly true. Technology has taken over many menial jobs that arguable caused more harm to the people working them, than it does to the machines that now perform those jobs; such as factory work. Advances in technology that enable people to focus their interests elsewhere, pushes our own advancement as an entire species. When we stop focusing on menial tasks that harm our potential, we're then able to switch our perspectives to more meaningful persuits. Just look at the amount of career possibilities out there today, compared to 60 years ago, 100 years ago.

Don't fear what you don't understand, thus attempting to destroy it.
Learn to understand instead.

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Meanwhile, people known to be complete and utter MORONS, Stephen Hawking and Elon Musk, are trying to warn us that AI COULD very well be the end of us. But, no one respects them anymore, right?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2907069/Don-t-let-AI-jo bs-kill-Stephen-Hawking-Elon-Musk-sign-open-letter-warning-robot-upris ing.html

(there are many better sources... just google it)

Could have sworn science fiction movies have been telling us this for a while now. :)

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You're falling into a very bad logical fallacy. By deferring your own intelligence, on to others that are supposed to be of higher intelligence than yourself, and automatically deferring to their /opinion/ on a subject, goes to show that you do not have the intelligence to even debate the topic at hand.

And you provide a *beep* Daily Mail link. Did you bother to look up the source material yourself?

Here's some quotes from their open letter:
"The potential benefits are huge, since everything that civilization has to offer is a product of human intelligence; we cannot predict what we might achieve when this intelligence is magnified by the tools AI may provide"

Here's their so-called "warning"
"Because of the great potential of AI, it is important to research how to reap its benefits while avoiding potential pitfalls."

"We recommend expanded research aimed at ensuring that increasingly capable AI systems are robust and beneficial: our AI systems must do what we want them to do. "

"In summary, we believe that research on how to make AI systems robust and beneficial is both important and timely, and that there are concrete research directions that can be pursued today. "

So before you go making an intellectual arse of yourself, try using your own brain and intelligence to do some actual research before quoting a bloody news article.
By responding the way you did, you showed yourself to be /exactly/ what humans are depicted as being in this movie: you're reactionary, and fear the unknown, and rather than making an attempt to understand, you shun and grasp for anything that will prove your point for you, so you don't have to think up your own retort.

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