MovieChat Forums > Before Midnight (2013) Discussion > What a poisonous film, very disappointed...

What a poisonous film, very disappointed.

posted 11 years ago by acdtest
73 replies | jump to latest

I've been surfing IMDB since I was was a young lad (24 now, been on since 10), and I've finally been provoked into making an IMDB account (so well done film in that respect I guess).

Basically, I was extremely disappointed by this film, and looking over my feelings: maybe even a little bit upset.

There has been such an investment in these characters over such a long period of time, that this feels like someone stuck a knife in and twisted for the sheer pleasure of it.

-The overwhelming cynicism. These were the people who met on a train and shared a wonderful night with all the joys of life? People who now caustically refer to the nastiest of allusions?

-The sheer nastiness of the characters, especially Celine. (I'm a bloke, white and middle class at that, so I'm sure my opinion is completely irrelevant). Throughout the whole film we are subjected to what is basically a rant about various issues, most of which are not relevant to the film or the characters we have known so much. This was not love, and maybe it never was on her part anyway.

-The insinuations of infidelity. Way to go to devalue characters who a lot of us have drawn upon to place our own lives. We all realise it is a film, but only a fool wouldn't admit that such emotive works don't have an influence. What a genuinely nasty approach to film making, to trash character built up so long.

-The sheer irrationality of Celine. I genuinely thought she was a little mad (and not in the good sense of the word either). Throughout the entire film we see her belittling him in every sense of the word. She calls into doubt his love, she leaves NO feelings as to her doubt of love. She is cynical about the past, present and future (if you asked me before we are 96; eeeh uhh) and seems to delight in rejecting him as a lover.

-The ending of the film was ridiculous. We've just enormous feelings and passions blitz through, and we are treated to an upset her and a foolish him propositioning about sex? Seriously? Are we treated as such dumb consumers that we would think a bit of shagging would solve the whole issue? It was a complete cop out.

Now I can see where they were TRYING to go with her character, eg someone who sacrificed a lot, but it made no sense. She ALWAYS (through our knowledge of the films anyway) was idealistic about various issues, not career focused. So to suddenly swap over and change was not fair on anyone. How was he to instantly adjust when she suddenly wants to blow in everything that she has always fought and believed in, to go and work for a bloke that even Jesse says he doesn't trust!

It came across quite clear that she never wanted the children. What an abdication of responsibility. Yes, surprise surprise, children are hard work and change the nature of life. It affected him, just as much as it did her.

The rant about looking after children etc was completely absurd. Their relationship was that petty that this was the sole issue? Granted he may not have pulled his weight (which wasn't fully explored due to the nature of their argument), but it came across like she was just fundamentally bitter about everything. How could a life be built around that?

(I did have a load written, but frankly, I'm not going to waste even more of my time).

In summary, I found this film to be depressing, cynical, dislikeable and ultimately: unrealistic.

People are not ultimately like this, and such dysfunctional, bitter and repugnant characters (whilst perhaps growing in trend), are not the norm, no matter how edgy the writers of the film wanted it to be.

I shall recommend to everyone that this series is like The Matrix. The first one is awe inspiring, the second and third doesn't live up to expectations and should be avoided to avert tainting of the first.

0/10

[–] movieinsider411 11 years ago

I felt like this movie was a let down because it made me lose respect for both of these characters. Celine pretty much finds Jesse selfish for wanting to be closer with his son instead of her. That's his son. Of course he wants to be with him. It's called being a father. And then Jesse practically admits he was unfaithful to her one time. It's like the movie was treating infidelity like it was no big deal. I bet that was Ethan Hawke's idea. LOL. After that whole fight, I don't understand how they can still be together at the end. And we don't get to find out what either decide to do- stay in France or move to the U.S.?

[–] kenny-164 11 years ago

Movie,

You in effect are saying films should be exercises in making the viewer respect the film's characters. Imo that is not what films are supposed to be about.

As for your comment about what they do later, you realize it is central to the film's narrative that all events are supposed to be occuring over the course of less than a full day, right? Perhaps you have an issue with that, but if one assumes that as central, how is the film supposed to tell us what happens in the future?

I think your points are off the point.

[–] anangkat 11 years ago

After feeling an emotional connection to both Celine and Jesse for a large portion of my adult life, I also lost respect for both of them after viewing this movie.
After years of turmoil and yearning for one another, when they are finally able to be together they choose infidelity?!?! I left the theater feeling empty.
I will forevor adore "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset", but this one left a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, I still yearn for a fourth movie.

"EVER FELT THAT YOU'VE BEEN CHEATED?"
JOHNNY ROTTEN

[–] smist 11 years ago

I've been a fan of the first two films for years and now finally saw the third one. Didn't like it much. Mostly because while the other two films were mostly built on interesting discussions I felt like this one was mostly built on arguments.

[–] jobseeker95479 11 years ago

It seems so many people feel betrayed by the romanticism they have on Jesse and Celine based on *one* single night they spent together but they don't appreciate the effort these characters put into sorting out the difficulty (and the sometime failure at that) when they actually try to live together.

BTW, if you have listened to the commentary of Richard, Ethan and Julie on the DVD, they are very well aware of the audience's response to the implied infidelity and they are rather amused how difficult for the general public to accept realism when it comes to romantic comedy genre

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] jobseeker95479 11 years ago

It is realistic because what happened one night in Vienna isn't enough to sustain a relationship. You need to put in a lot more effort than philosophical conversation and wandering the city to make it work and these two people do give the effort to make it work albeit at time they failed and made mistakes

I feel that you reject their relationship and their love for each other entirely based on that they have been unfaithful to each other. Not that I condone infidelity but Jesse was already married with a kid when he reunited with Celine in Before Sunset. If you find Before Midnight disappointing because you have lost respect for them due to their infidelity, shouldn't it be disappointing right from the moment Jesse decided to miss his flight just to be with Celine since that is also a betrayal, if you only see it from his first wife's perspective?

BTW, Ethan Hawke has separated from Uma Thurman by the time Before Sunset was released and remarried in between the second and the third movie. I don't even think Julie Delpy has ever married at all. It just doesn't make sense that their personal divorces, or the lack of it, has anything to do with how these two characters develop.

[–] move_over_fatso 11 years ago

Kudos on your post. I don't exactly agree with all of it, but it reflected a lot about how I felt about the movie.

The first one is awe inspiring, the second and third doesn't live up to expectations and should be avoided to avert tainting of the first.

I totally disagree with this notion. The 2nd movie, by far, is the best and most brilliant movie. Your problem appreciating it probably stems from not being over 30. The first movie captures the romanticism and idealism of youth, but the second movie totally captures how when you're older, you look at your life from a totally different perspective. The second movie is awe-inspiring, the first movie could almost be dismissed as trite.

[–] johnmichael-2 11 years ago

I dunno, I'm a 24-year-old white guy, too, like the OP, and I did not feel crushed or poisoned by the more serious/cynical/realistic tone this installment took. Five years ago (which was when I watched the first two films), I might have felt like that. I might have felt angry at the characters for the insinuations of infidelity or the mean things they said in the fight. I might have felt like Celine was being a bitch.

But I don't feel that way. I think the story followed a very natural and very realistic arc which most relationships follow once they actually start and have been going for nearly a decade.

[–] walkingaline 11 years ago

I watched all three films within about a month, a couple of weeks apart. I loved all three. They were honest and realistic. The end of Before Midnight actually seemed pretty optimistic to me. I felt as though the characters had had arguments like this one before, or have been perhaps teetering on the edge of having one for a long time. But by the end it felt like they were ready to start working towards moving past it.

[–] MDavenp900 10 years ago

A brilliant and accurate response. For those who need 109 minutes to be trained in how to say "*beep*," YOU will enjoy it.

[–] rhondoturk 10 years ago

As a previous poster wrote, this might be long, but hopefully also relevant. First, the fact that there is so much passionate feeling about the film/characters, make it a worthwhile film. Boring, uninteresting films don’t provoke this much thought. Apart from movies made for the pure joy of entertainment, most directors/actors would love to know their film/characters provoked this much debate.
I have seen all three films, each when they were originally released, and “Before Sunset” is my favorite of the three and one of my favorite films period.
A little about me and some non-movie related thoughts, I’m a 50 year old male, never married and do not have any children. I have lived with girlfriends on three occasions; when I was 20, 35, and 46. I won’t try to speculate on what it’s like raising children in their situation. I see in my married friends that have families much sacrifice and compromise by both parents to raise a family. As a general rule, I think most people become more conservative, pragmatic and tend to lean towards pessimism as they age. Again, this is just a generalization and doesn’t apply to everyone, but I think it mirrors the characters behavior in the films.
As for the realism of the conversations (in all the films), I find them to be quite believable. This is of coursed based on my experiences. I’ve had nights similar to the night from the first movie where it’s all giddy nervous energy, high minded conversations, flirting, lust etc…The same goes for the second movie, meeting an old girlfriend, reminiscing, talking about “what if’s”, feeling the old attractions, and that anticipation as you are together in the apartment. Are we going spend the night together?
Also the dinner conversation are realistic as I’ve hosted dinner parties where the conversations are about relationships, books, movies, politics, etc….and I don’t consider myself an over intellectualized snob. Example, these same parties also tend to devolve into drunken singing of Journey songs by dessert! Lastly, the hotel/waterfront bar scene. I’ve certainly had my share of heated arguments about infidelity, perceived slights, and past issues where both parties said things hurtful (sometimes just to be hurtful) that ended in similar fashion. Geez, hasn’t anyone ever had make-up sex?
Finally, thinking about the entire premise of the series, I find it entirely plausible that two people that have only spent about 48 hours with each other in a 10 year period, might find out that they are not the perfect “soulmates” they thought they were once in a real relationship. There is a big difference in dating someone (or as in their case, two nights!) and living with someone everyday.

[–] pery-1 10 years ago

The ending - she will soon leave him. I agree with you, except that it is all too realistic. I lived though a similar marriage with an insecure, high maintenance, always "testing me" woman. Near the end, before she ran off with a guy, she acted just like Celine.

[–] Eyebrows 10 years ago

I think the film does a good job of throwing some conflict into their relationship. I mean, really, where else could the film have gone if they were perfectly happy with each other. The Before series has never been about an overblown, Disney type love. It's romantic sure,mthe idea of meeting somebody and then falling in love again 9 years later, but it's always been portrayed as real, not a flight of fantasy. Unfortunately, breakdowns can and do happen in many relationships. I get the sense people don't like the film because it shatters their idealism about life and love. But Before has always been an exploration of character, it's a drama, not a rom-com where genre conventions means you get a happy ending. We're not owed a happy ending any more than the characters are. It's a character study and these (flawed) characters are dealing with the very real and very difficult issues that people of their age in a long-term relationship do deal with. And I'd class myself as a romantic rather than a cynic.

People are irrational and flawed.

People change.

Relationships can and do break down.

Welcome to life.

[–] Marymambo 10 years ago

This is a great review of why the movie is so disappointing:
http://m.theweek.com/articles/450145/girls-film-before-midnight-failure

"Jesse and Celine are completely disengaged from each other. Interpersonally, this means each of them spend the movie thinking about what each other's pain means for themselves, and not each other." and
"Instead of a progressively modern look at romance, this dynamic has now made the pair utterly antiquated. Where the previous films focused on interpersonal romance, Before Midnight is obsessed with old gender norms. Jesse says something romantic, and Celine calls him a 12-year-old girl."etc.

Interestingly,this article (by the same reviewer) puts a focus on the evolution of Celine's character, which is a great read:
http://theweek.com/articles/463901/girls-film-before-midnight-evolution-cinemas-most-dynamic-women

[–] 10 years ago

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