MovieChat Forums > Perry Mason (2020) Discussion > S2 Courtroom Scenes: Della vs Perry

S2 Courtroom Scenes: Della vs Perry

posted 2 years ago by joi2049 (5624)
18 replies | jump to latest

Anyone else notice how much more effective Della's cross-examination scene was in comparison to Perry's?

Perry pulls out the products from the store shelves to argue in the CIVIL CASE.

In the CRIMINAL CASE Della pulls out the PHOTO's in the FILE showing them to the JURY, and proving to them that the witness on the stand had LIED about his sister (who was strangled), by saying that she'd been in an auto accident.

If there's a SEASON 3, does anyone else suspect we may see a SHOWDOWN between Della & Perry (who also cheated on the BAR EXAM by getting the answers beforehand ... whereas DELLA is actually working her way toward getting a LEGIT law degree by attending night school).

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Whose name is on the door? Thanks for playing!

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

Who's name is on the door?

Shouldn't that be "WHOSE" instead of WHO's???

Have we ever seen the door before???

And didn't Della also have a conversation with Perry about the 2 of them being PARTNERS?

And isn't it also the CUSTOM for the names of BOTH people to appear on a door who are PARTNERS???

In that case, shouldn't Della's name also be there on the door???

🤔

Thanks for your reply back to the topic Bushbobo!!!

😀

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Della is good but she's not Perry Mason. Show's name is an indication if you're interested.

Thanks for you're reply back to the topic Bushbobo!!!

It's your, not you're.

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

Yes the show's NAME is Perry Mason, but that still doesn't address the other issue that was put forth about how DELLA & Perry discussed being PARTNERS, or how PARTNERS also usually have BOTH of their names placed upon the DOOR.

And YOU'RE also right about how it should be YOUR instead of you're in that sentence (the same way that it should also have been "WHOSE" instead of "WHO's" in YOUR sentence).

Della is good but she's not Perry Mason

And I'm still also thinking that DELLA is BETTER than PERRY, due to the way that he CHEATED to pass the BAR EXAM by getting the QUESTIONS beforehand, whereas DELLA is WORKING her way to PASSING it "LEGALLY," without CHEATING, by attending classes at night school.

Therefore, that's the reason why she'll most likely also end up being BETTER than PERRY, due to the way that she'll actually have the EDUCATION that Perry doesn't have.

PLUS she'll also NOT have CHEATED when she passes the BAR EXAM the way that he did (which is also reason to have him DISBARRED if anyone ever finds out that he's CHEATED).

Thus also making DELLA MORALLY SUPERIOR to PERRY, as well as her being INTELLECTUALLY SUPERIOR.

Right Bushbobo???

🤔

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Yet the show is mostly about Perry Mason. Della is not the lead. Probably because his name is on the door and he's the one winning the cases. Della is helping Perry. He is smart to use her to get the job done.

You DO realize that the show is about a period when women were not equally considered as men were in most affairs, right?

Do you have PROOF that her name is on the door?
DELLA is ACTUALLY INFERIOR as she is not the lead and the story is written to favor PERRY.

Got you right on track now? DO YOU KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING?
🤔

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

IMO, the show is EQUALLY about BOTH characters. And since DELLA is his PARTNER, that also PROVES she's NOT just his helper, which is further CONFIRMED by the way DELLA hired the SECRETARY.

And that character is also more than just a HELPER, due to the way she's the one who told PERRY that OIL was being SMUGGLED into JAPAN.

the show is about a period when women were not equally considered as men were in most affairs

.

Since this is taking place right before WW2, and WOMEN were making MOST of the PLANES, TANKS, and other AMUNITION for that WAR, FEMALES were just as EQUALLY as COMPETENT as the MALES (which was made CLEAR to EVERYONE during the WAR when the ARCHAIC OUTDATED SEXIST kinds of ATTITUDES that you've referred to were done away with at that time).

What's more, as you can see from the following article, the FIRST FEMALE LAWYER also WON her case way back in 1869, which offers further PROOF that what you've said is NOT CORRECT:

https://amazingwomeninhistory.com/who-was-the-first-female-lawyer-in-the-us/

Arabella Mansfield became the first female lawyer in the United States when she was admitted to the bar in 1869. She took the bar exam when only men were legally allowed to take the test, and won a court case for her right to practice law.

So NICE TRY, but NO BANANA for you bobo.

the story is written to favor PERRY.

Perry constantly SCREWS things up. He's LOST the family farm by not paying the taxes. He PUNCHES a guy in front of his young son & his classmates. His own son also didn't want to spend the night at his place. He steals the race horse and almost got caught. He almost got killed on the boat, and the CLIENT that he had ... on the ONE CRIMINAL CASE that's he's had ... also KILLED HERSELF ... before he switched to the CIVIL CASE ... where he helped the SLIME BALL to win the case that he shouldn't have won, etc. etc. etc.

If that's what you call being "FAVORED", then perhaps you need to take another look at his character.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

The irony of your cry for Della is that you are writing on a board dedicated to PERRY MASON. A fictional character. The show is about his antics. How can you not get the SUPERIOR importance of Perry over Della in his own show?

Dude gets stuff done by using his little helpers! His rascal ways trump the Della stiffness.

*Show me the scenes with the war prep factory workers IN THE SHOW, before using it as some sort of evidence claiming that women were granted the same consideration as men. You know this is an alternate reality, right?

*I have🍌

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

If there's a SEASON 3, does anyone else suspect we may see a SHOWDOWN between Della & Perry

Here's some quotes for you from other articles that offer PROOF of the claim made in the OP about the possibility of DELLA having a SHOWDOWN of some kind with PERRY NEXT SEASON (IF there is a 3rd Season which we also don't know yet):

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/perry-mason-characters-paul-della-find-their-voices-in-season-2/ar-AA19XTYA

Rylance added: "We are relying on this guy, who is a mess.

Paul isn't patient when dealing with Perry's loss of confidence and disorganization.
----
This is no reboot-replica of the Raymond Burr 50s/60s series – rather, it’s an origin story that grimly dwells in the darkest corners of post-Depression Los Angeles. Here, pre-legal career, Mason is a dour, burned-out PI, with a broken marriage and a drinking habit

https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/inside-the-perry-mason-della-and-anita-lesbian-love-story

Perry got fucked off a bed in Season 1 and is now engaging in a new romance with his son’s teacher

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/10/arts/television/perry-mason-recap-season-2-episode-6.html
Perry Mason’ Season 2, Episode 6 Recap: The Smoking Gun
Della shreds a witness in court. The prosecution shreds Perry’s credibility.\

Della (Juliet Rylance) took over interrogation duties in this week’s episode of “Perry Mason.” Maybe she should do it more often.

the episode’s centerpiece scene, in which Della Street takes over the cross-examination of a prosecution witness from Perry midstream. The witness in question is Councilman Taylor, the brother of the murder victim Brooks McCutcheon’s incapacitated mistress Noreen. Della knows where Perry’s line of questioning is headed: directly to the fact that Brooks enjoyed strangling his lovers with his monogrammed belt.

Della presents her proposed takeover as a way to better handle the “sensitive nature” of the subject matter. But by the end of her questioning, by which time she has wrapped the belt around her own neck in full view of the jurors, it is apparent he real motives were much less high-minded. She didn’t just want to explain to the jury that Brooks got off on choking beautiful women — she wanted to show them what a beautiful woman being strangled looks like. The resulting display is a slam dunk for the defense.

Della also has a very thinly veiled job offer from the gazillionaire Camilla Nygaard to consider. Camilla invites her over for drinks and “marihuana” and implies heavily that she is considering ditching her existing counsel for Della. Given the choice between a gifted but unpredictable sad sack like Perry and a rich and vivacious piano-virtuoso stoner like Camilla … well, it’s not going to be an easy decision, is it?

Perry himself turns on his schoolteacher girlfriend, Ginny Aimes, on a dime when the gun is brought to light, assuming she is the person who ratted him out. Finally, Ginny is getting a taste of the mercurial side of Perry that isn’t quite as alluring as the Perry who slugged some jerk in the schoolyard.

From start to finish, this episode is twisty, sexy, sordid fun, featuring richly realized acting from a double-digit number of lead and supporting players.

So even the NYT agrees that "Given the choice between" what it calls the "unpredictable sad sack Perry" and "the RICH Camilla" Della will probably chose to work for the latter.

And it also points out how we have what it calls a number of "DOUBLE DIGIT LEADS" in the story (meaning the Perry character is NOT the ONLY LEADING CHARACTER the way that you INCORRECTLY keep claiming he is).

🙄

And anyone who studies HISTORY can also verify the fact that FEMALES ROLE in the WORK place was forever CHANGED after WW2 when they worked in the FACTORIES building planes, tanks, etc.

Women and Work After World War II | American Experience | PBS

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/tupperware-work

"During the Second World War, women proved that they could do "men's" work, and do it well"

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

So your hopes of Della coming out on top of Perry will remain a fantasy for another season.

Do you not think he would utterly destroy her by outing her sexual proclivity?

I am sorry you still feel like there is equality in the prosperity of these characters.

Please read the name of the show once more and rethink your position.

It's PERRY MASON

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

Again, this topic is about how Della has already COME OUT ON TOP of Perry in that COURTROOM SCENE where she OUTSHINES him BIGTIME by exposing the WITNESS as being a LIAR!!!

And IF you've been paying CLOSE enough ATTENTION to the show, then you'd also already know that SOMEONE else has been following Della around who will probably OUT her sexually, thus also making it HIGHLY UNLIKELY Perry would ever need to do so (which would also be something that would be completely OUT of CHARACTER for him).

And since Perry CHEATED to pass that BAR EXAM, whereas Della attends night school and is NOT CHEATING, that also makes her SUPERIOR to him both MORALLY and INTELLECTUALLY (regardless of how many times you keep uselessly repeating yourself about how his name is on the door or is the title of the show).

Because None of that makes any difference when DELLA STOLE that COURT ROOM SCENE away from PERRY in the show, and then she also NAILED IT BIGTIME in the process of doing so.

😀GO DELLA !!!😁

[–] letess (1803) 2 years ago

They are a team. There’s no competitiveness by either one to outdo the other. Where one person is strong, the other is cunning, i.e., Della with her expertise in handing over legal precedents to Perry while in court made a huge difference with the judge. Even if the judge is not on their side, he is on the side of someone who is doing a good job of lawyering bc he’s held to scrutiny too. But in the same vein, there is the adventurer in Perry. He plays a different game and it is not always ethical (hiding the gun) but his game is mean and he’s playing against really undesirables who have no mercy - something Della wouldn’t stand a chance. He’s better out of the courtroom so far. But in this season, at this moment with Ep. 7, Della is better in the courtroom. Waiting for the last episode.

The books have Della as a secretary. Perry walked the line but never did anything unlawful. He was held in high esteem. Paul Drake had a league of detectives. So, this series is dealing with something completely different plot wise to all of the novels - and yet it is timely - and the writers have embellished the characters making this series more exciting and richer.

And Perry would never destroy Della. He would never out her. This would never happen and if it did, we wouldn’t want to watch this guy. He’s Perry Mason and always defends the underdog. He’s not going to throw those he admires or loves under the bus.

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

He plays a different game and it is not always ethical (hiding the gun)

Thanks for your reply to the topic letess which is much appreciated.

But wasn't it Della who took the gun and placed it into the SAFE while Perry just stood there watching her do it???

Perry would never destroy Della. He would never out her. This would never happen and if it did, we wouldn’t want to watch this guy. He’s Perry Mason and always defends the underdog. He’s not going to throw those he admires or loves under the bus.

VERY WELL PUT!!!

This is precisely the reason why it was pointed out to the bobo poster how it would be completely OUT of CHARACTER for Perry to ever do such a thing.

Also read something about another COURTROOM SCENE coming up again in the next eppy where PERRY may also have an opportunity to OUTSHINE Della's previous performance where she exposed the Witness as being a LIAR.

Also wonder what that FIRE SCENE that we saw in the PREVIEWS was all about???

🤔

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

You seem to mistake the courtroom smarts of Della with winning the case by Perry. Sure, he shares the win when interviewed but we all know he's the lead. And the buck stops with him.

Do not make the mistake of looking at the time period depicted through 21st century glasses.

Women were NOT considered superior to men.

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

You seem to mistake the courtroom smarts of Della with winning the case by Perry. Sure, he shares the win

Are we watching the same show??? Perry didn't WIN the case bobo. His client pleads GUILTY to MURDER, was sentenced to 30 YEARS in PRISON, and PERRY was also sent to JAIL for 4 MONTHS for hiding the MURDER WEAPON.

Women were NOT considered superior to men.

On the contrary,

Did you NOTE the way the SEASON ENDS with PAUL WARNING PERRY to WATCH OUT cas DELLA's smarter than he is???

Perhaps it's only NARCISSISTIC WHITE MEN who failed to realize back then that WOMEN are just as INTELLIGENT as MEN???

Virginia Woolf also wrote an ESSAY about the matter called "A ROOM of ONE's OWN" where she explored the situation and concluded that MALES only considered FEMALES INFERIOR to themselves as a way to try to RAISE their own STATUS.

https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/woolfv-aroomofonesown/woolfv-aroomofonesown-00-h.html

Since it was also written in 1929 (before the TIME frame in which the show takes place), it also offers us PROOF that WOMEN were not INFERIOR and the reasons why MEN incorrectly considered themselves to be SUPERIOR when they were NOT.

😛

Here's another question. Remember Della saying she'd look into finding a workaround to the DILEMMA of the GUN situation?

Here's the conversation you can find at the 28 MIN TIME MARK in S2/Ep 4 at the HBO/MAX site:

Perry: What about the gun that killed Brooks that's sitting in our safe?

DELLA: Us having the gun is a DILEMMA.

Paul: Well, They didn't give it to us, I found it.

DELLA: I'll look into it, There may be a workaround.

Then later on there's another scene where she finds a workaround situation in one of the cases in a law book.

So WHY is PERRY going to jail if she found the workaround???

Will S3 begin with Perry getting set free because of what she found??? And Della is also the one who placed the GUN into the safe. All Perry did was pull the blinds closed while she did it.

And there was also NO DISCUSSION at all between them about putting the GUN into the SAFE.

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

And Here's some quotes from A ROOM of ONE'S OWN for you:

https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/woolfv-aroomofonesown/woolfv-aroomofonesown-00-h.html#chapter06

women, like men, have other interests besides the perennial interests of domesticity

Suppose, for instance, that men were only represented in literature as the lovers of women, and were never the friends of men, soldiers, thinkers, dreamers; how few parts in the plays of Shakespeare could be allotted to them; how literature would suffer!

literature would be incredibly impoverished,

Back one was always hailed to the letter "I". One began to be tired of "I".

I am bored!" But why was I bored? Partly because of the dominance of the letter "I"

He is protesting against the equality of the other sex by asserting his own superiority.

men, that is to say, are now writing only with the male side of their brains.

one blushes at all these capital letters as if one had been caught eavesdropping at some purely masculine orgy.

Poetry ought to have a mother as well as a father.

The Fascist poem, one may fear, will be a horrid little abortion such as one sees in a glass jar in the museum of some county town. Such monsters never live long,
without some mixture of the kind the intellect seems to predominate and the other faculties of the mind harden and become barren

it is fatal for anyone who writes to think of their sex.
anything written with that conscious bias is doomed to death. It ceases to be fertilised.

Some collaboration has to take place in the mind between the woman and the man before the art of creation can be accomplished. Some marriage of opposites has to be consummated

The whole of the mind must lie wide open if we are to get the sense that the writer is communicating his experience with perfect fullness.

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/woolfv-aroomofonesown/woolfv-aroomofonesown-00-h.html#tocchapter02

when the professor insisted a little too emphatically upon the inferiority of women, he was concerned not with their inferiority, but with his own superiority. That was what he was protecting rather hot-headedly and with too much emphasis,

By thinking that other people are inferior to oneself. By feeling that one has some innate superiority--it may be wealth, or rank, a straight nose, or the portrait of a grandfather by Romney--for there is no end to the pathetic devices of the human imagination--over other people. Hence the enormous importance to a patriarch who has to conquer, who has to rule, of feeling that great numbers of people, half the human race indeed, are by nature inferior to himself. It must indeed be one of the chief sources of his power.

Women have served all these centuries as looking-glasses possessing the magic and delicious power of reflecting the figure of man at twice its natural size. Without that power probably the earth would still be swamp and jungle.

mirrors are essential to all violent and heroic action. That is why Napoleon and Mussolini both insist so emphatically upon the inferiority of women, for if they were not inferior, they would cease to enlarge. That serves to explain in part the necessity that women so often are to men. And it serves to explain how restless they are under her criticism

how impossible it is for her to say to them this book is bad, this picture is feeble, or whatever it may be, without giving far more pain and rousing far more anger than a man would do who gave the same criticism. For if she begins to tell the truth, the figure in the looking-glass shrinks; his fitness for life is diminished. How is he to go on giving judgement, civilising natives, making laws, writing books, dressing up and speechifying at banquets, unless he can see himself at breakfast and at dinner at least twice the size he really is?

The looking-glass vision is of supreme importance because it charges the vitality; it stimulates the nervous system. Take it away and man may die, like the drug fiend deprived of his cocaine.

they say to themselves as they go into the room, I am the superior of half the people here

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Gotta end it here, I hate the long threads with the vertically stretched-out sentences and since you have answered all your own questions and I was only helping you along to do so. A friendly steering hand from a gentleman, as is the time-honored tradition.

[–] joi2049 (5624) 2 years ago

Yes the long threads with the vertically stretched-out sentences do suck bigtime.

However, Another NEW TOPIC about THE GUN has also been started here:

https://moviechat.org/tt2077823/Perry-Mason/6448058714598f11c7310834/Why-is-Perry-in-Jail-if-Della-found-a-WORKAROUND-Case-to-keep-him-OUT

and you might also find reading this other discussion about it over at another different message board to be as interesting as I did:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Perry_Mason/comments/12ohi63/isnt_hiding_the_gun_illegal/

The conclusions are Brilliant, and they are also all over the place, making it nearly impossible to know which one is correct, or even IF there is a correct way in which to view the situation.