I've read through some of the message posts. Quite a few commented that Llewyn Davis is not a nice guy. If you feel this way, could you provide some examples of how you came to that conclusion that he lacks character?
Thanks!
I thought Llewyn was a decent person. The audience's only exposure to Llewyn is during a difficult period. I thought he did two things that were noble: he cared for two cats while being homeless. And, he sacrificed his "artistic credibility" to make money for the abortion. Granted, he was a jerk to the lady on stage. But, haven't we all had a rough patch in life and needed to vent our frustrations?
Also...
I am also confused by the comments that he is lazy. He doesn't seem lazy to me. Rather, I see him as incredibly devoted to being a musician. I viewed his couch-surfing as a tactic that allowed him to be completely focused on his music career. If he has no rent to pay, he's allowed himself time to chase his dreams. I can't imagine he enjoyed sleeping on couches. The trip to Chicago was also proof that he wasn't lazy. It took a lot of courage.
Some people seem to think he's a shïtheel, that's true, but they seem content to draw this conclusion on the basis of his behaviour during this brief, "difficult period" (as you said) and on the word of others, specifically Mulligan's character.
I think a lot of folks simply don't understand how soul-crushing it can be to spend your life doing something you love, having to struggle to get respect on a daily basis, having to live hand-to-mouth for years at a time because your gifts and strengths and integrity aren't necessarily enough to sustain a living.
Throw in the death of a close friend, cold weather, a young lady desperate to have your abortion, the feeling of being a burden to friends and family -- yeah, I'm willing to grant him his (admittedly shameful) outburst towards the lady who performs near the end.
I know I wouldn't want to be judged on the basis of the worst week of my life.
At the film's conclusion, it's pretty clear that Llewyn has two choices: (a) give it up and take a "square job" (which he'd perceive as being a betrayal and an acceptance of a life filled with a different kind of misery) or (b) continue to toil in obscurity on the infinitesimal chance that he'll "break through" -- thus living the same few days, with some variation, over and over for the rest of his life.
Given what we know about his character, he'll almost certainly opt for (b), which is almost as tragic as (a) in its own way.
Jean there (Llewyn's friend's girlfiend) is the nexus to the Gaslight club.
That some of the film's viewers read Jean's badmouthing of Llewyn as if Llewyn actually were a bad person, refers instead to their own poor character, as they rely "on the word of others" so much. Llewyn's sister is like such people.
Jean's badmouthing of Llewyn appears to be a very commonly used attempt to cause another person to have a counter-reaction and aim higher, but unbeknownst to Jean, Llewyn is not that kind of person. Jean later realizes this, and gives him another chance.
(1) He was a jerk to the lady on stage. (2) He was a jerk to the Gorfeins and their guests. (3) He took advantage of his friend's hospitality to sleep with his friend's wife. (4) He abandoned the cat in the car. (5) He abandoned a man, unconcious with a heroin overdose, possibly to die in a cold car by the side of a road in a snowstorm. (6) He has a pattern of knocking women up, throwing money at abortion doctors to make it go away, and not even accompanying the woman to the abortion doctor to make sure she is okay. And he evidently intends to repeat his mistake with Jean. (7) Even after he learns, 2 years later, that the woman he knocked up 2 years before had born his son, he turns down an opportunity to go visit her. (8) He puts down his working-class sister with elitist rhetoric; thumbs his nose at her when she tries to help him; and finally curses her out for doing exactly what he told her to do. (9) He is a rude jerk to the straight-laced army musician.
That's just off the top of my head. It's a while since I saw the film.
He puts down his working-class sister with elitist rhetoric; thumbs his nose at her when she tries to help him; and finally curses her out for doing exactly what he told her to do.
We saw Llewyn Davis at an extremely difficult period in his life. Joy was married and content. She couldn't have been bothered with him. She was all the family that he had.
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It's the struggles of being a musician. If you are good, a complex can start to grow in you subconsciously. You feel like people owe you something or that you deserve something. It's a crazy world trying to "make it" as a musician. The ups are great but the lows are incredibly tough and seem to keep getting worse the longer you go without "making it". All of that is no reason to act like an *beep* but it just happens with a lot of musician types. Average person would not take sympathy on him but being that I have gone thru similar feelings I can kind of understand and feel bad for him. It's all mental. You really want to be a good person and might even be convinced that you are, but the jade of it all will get you. I don't think he was being a dick intentionally he was just reacting to his shaky life.
Llewyn Davis was a good person. The movie shows a time in his life where he is spinning out of control. His partner's death was incredibly painful for him and it changed him. He was putting one foot in front of the other, trying to reach his goal. When Jean demanded the abortion money, he made the commerical record to get the money for her. It killed him to compromise his artistic standards, but he did it. He was counting every penny, ciphering out how much every bite of food would cost him.
He liked his groupie friends on the Upper West Side. But, it was hard for him to be around them. They reminded him of his best friend and partner. It was painful for him. His sister was married and content. She couldn't have cared less about him. His father was ill. His mother was dead. He had no one.
Couldn't have cared less? In their first scene together she asked him if he needed to borrow money. Meaning she would've lent it to him if he needed it. And after Llewyn got back from Chicago she let him sleep at her house. So I wouldn't say she doesn't care about her brother. She treated him better than he treated her.
Llewyn's sister does not really care about Llewyn to give him money so as to help her brother. In order to avoid giving him money (note that giving is rather different from lending), she sets up a (verbal) power play by asking Llewyn if he needed to borrow money; thus making an off-hand suggestion that she would only _lend_ money to him, knowing full-well that he's unable to pay it back.
Llewyn recognises her intent, and says he's good, to which the sister says with visible relief that then she won't have to lend him money, indicating that she never wanted to give or lend him money in the first place. Even if she appears to be doing rather well herself.
The sister does not really want to do anything with Llewyn, and throws away his merchant marine diploma. If she actually cared, then she would not have done that.
The only way Llewyn knows to get back is to teach his nephew an assortment of choice language. While the sister decides to cut off contact with him by asking him to leave, the damage is by then irreversible: the nephew has heard all of these words, and is certainly going to use them in the future.
There really are people like that sister. That's why Llewyn chooses stay at other people's homes, because his sister is not generous.
(Letting Llewyn sleep at her house doesn't count, because it's not enough.)
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Llewyn's sister does not really care about Llewyn to give him money so as to help her brother. In order to avoid giving him money (note that giving is rather different from lending), she sets up a (verbal) power play by asking Llewyn if he needed to borrow money; thus making an off-hand suggestion that she would only _lend_ money to him, knowing full-well that he's unable to pay it back.
Llewyn recognises her intent, and says he's good, to which the sister says with visible relief that then she won't have to lend him money, indicating that she never wanted to give or lend him money in the first place. Even if she appears to be doing rather well herself.
The sister does not really want to do anything with Llewyn, and throws away his merchant marine diploma. If she actually cared, then she would not have done that.
The only way Llewyn knows to get back is to teach his nephew an assortment of choice language. While the sister decides to cut off contact with him by asking him to leave, the damage is by then irreversible: the nephew has heard all of these words, and is certainly going to use them in the future.
There really are people like that sister. That's why Llewyn chooses stay at other people's homes, because his sister is not generous.
(Letting Llewyn sleep at her house doesn't count, because it's not enough.)
Wow, you're really bending over backwards to justify Llewyn's jerk behavior.
Lending different from giving? Not in Llewyn's case it isn't. "Borrow" is the word he uses when he asks for handouts. It's hardly her fault if she uses the same language he does.
And why does she owe him handouts? Isn't she a mom with a child to raise? If she does give him money because he needs it, why shouldn't he be expected to pay it back as soon as he can?
His sister went to alot of trouble to SAVE his Merchant Marine Diploma for him, along with alot of other things, when the parents house sold. Llewyn was very rude, failed to say "thank you", acted like a big shot, and TOLD her to throw out the entire box.
Then he comes back and curses her out for doing exactly what he told her.
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Llewyn's sister does not really care about Llewyn to give him money so as to help her brother. In order to avoid giving him money (note that giving is rather different from lending), she sets up a (verbal) power play by asking Llewyn if he needed to borrow money; thus making an off-hand suggestion that she would only _lend_ money to him, knowing full-well that he's unable to pay it back.
Llewyn recognises her intent, and says he's good, to which the sister says with visible relief that then she won't have to lend him money, indicating that she never wanted to give or lend him money in the first place. Even if she appears to be doing rather well herself.
The sister does not really want to do anything with Llewyn, and throws away his merchant marine diploma. If she actually cared, then she would not have done that.
The only way Llewyn knows to get back is to teach his nephew an assortment of choice language. While the sister decides to cut off contact with him by asking him to leave, the damage is by then irreversible: the nephew has heard all of these words, and is certainly going to use them in the future.
There really are people like that sister. That's why Llewyn chooses stay at other people's homes, because his sister is not generous.
(Letting Llewyn sleep at her house doesn't count, because it's not enough.)
Wow, you're really bending over backwards to justify Llewyn's jerk behavior.
Lending different from giving? Not in Llewyn's case it isn't. "Borrow" is the word he uses when he asks for handouts. It's hardly her fault if she uses the same language he does.
And why does she owe him handouts? Isn't she a mom with a child to raise? If she does give him money because he needs it, why shouldn't he be expected to pay it back as soon as he can?
His sister went to alot of trouble to SAVE his Merchant Marine Diploma for him, along with alot of other things, when the parents house sold. Llewyn was very rude, failed to say "thank you", acted like a big shot, and TOLD her to throw out the entire box.
Then he comes back and curses her out for doing exactly what he told her.
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Saw this movie multiple times. First viewing, had no sympathy for LD. But when I watched this film a second time, I felt intensely sorry for the main character and will confess that I shed tears for him. Part of the genius of the Coen Brothers lies in creating enigmatic characters.
Having lived a portion of that life for a few years, I was with LD the entire time...until he left the cat in the car. He could at least have let the cat to fend for itself.
The other stuff...meh, it's part of living. I am especially understanding of his reaction when Mrs. Gorfein starts singing the harmony line. When you're with someone for a long time, and that's who you're used to hearing over your shoulder and in your ear, and they exit under unfavorable circumstances, it can be incredibly hard to bear. Realistically, he probably wouldn't have even done the song, but then we wouldn't have had that emotional moment.
As to being lazy...being a working musician is pretty hard, physically and mentally, especially when you're not famous, because you have to scare up your own shows, schlep your own gear, find your own sleeping arrangements, collect your own fees, etc. He was a least helped a bit in that he wasn't packing multiple instruments and a PA and other gear, but it's still very difficult. I would in no way consider LD lazy.
People who call him lazy have never been gigging musicians.
The cat had a better chance being left in the car than being let out. The car would be found by daylight and the cat taken care of. If Goodman was only passed out and not dead his body heat would have been enough for the cat. If he had let the cat out it would have frozen to death.
As far as being a bad person……all for interpretation. I think at times he was a decent guy and at times he was not. Hardships not withstanding. Basically a Human Being. Jean was all bluster with how much she admonished him. A lot of it came from her guilt of being one of the two of the tango. She wouldn't have kept allowing him in her life like she did and even helping him at the end if she truly hated him. I didn't catch at the end if Pappi said he had just f'd her in the past or recently so LD could play there? Also was that saying that the baby could have been anybody's?