MovieChat Forums > Inside Llewyn Davis (2014) Discussion > Problems with this read....?

Problems with this read....?

posted 9 years ago by Balibari
16 replies | jump to latest

I’ve appropriated some of this from other posters, I’m not claiming to have come up with it all myself. I’ve only just seen the film so haven’t had the chance to rewatch or even spend too long thinking about it. I'm interested to know what problems people might have with this read of what I see as key events and characters in the film, what other ideas there are out there.

1. The cat
The cat represents Mike. Perhaps he clings to it like he clung to Mike (who Llewyn maybe saw as Paul Simon to his own Art Garfunkel). Perhaps he isn’t ready to move on from Mike’s death (personally and/or professionally) and so wants to keep him close. Perhaps he just wants to protect it like he couldn’t his partner. I need to see the film again and consider this more, along with what the subtleties of the cat’s comings and goings, and the mistaken identity issue, actually mean. Of course it could be a big fat Coen bros red herring.

2. The Gorfeins
They are the sort-of custodians of Mike’s memory. They may or may not be his parents, it doesn’t really matter. It’s in their house we hear Mike sing, Mrs. Gorfein plays the role of Mike at one point, we get the sense they were close to Mike and that’s how they know Llewyn, and of course they own the cat.

3. Roland Turner & Johnny Five
They represent the only two possible futures in store for Llewyn at that point in time. Fail and become a simmering, disillusioned servant (go back to sea). Or continue and become a slightly successful narcissistic blowhard (be a career musician).

4. Bud Grossman and The Gate of Horn
Bud is the truth. He’s right about Llewyn. The club (although I believe it’s real) is the representation of true dreams, as per it’s namesake in Homer’s Odyssey. Llewyn wants it more than anything but he’s not going to get it (at least not as things stand at that point in the film).

5. The loop (the bookend scenes at The Gaslight)
Some of the differences exist in order to withhold information from us early on (Dylan), some to demonstrate how Llewyn has changed during the film (playing Fare The Well). Though seemingly too obvious, for me these scenes demonstrate that Llewyn is stuck in a repeating cycle. However we see he’s able to learn and grow within that cycle. I don’t know if we’re meant to see a way out for him or not. On one hand he’s back where he started. On the other he has shown improved awareness of his predicament (by saying au revoir to the guy who beats him he shows he knows he’s going round in circles now) and seems to have found a way out from Mike’s shadow (keeping the cat indoors), or perhaps the shadow of his death, allowing him to grow as an artist (his final performance seems more heartfelt, more like that of a ‘proper’ solo artist).

6. Dylan
This I can’t fathom. Are we meant to see Dylan’s arrival on the scene as the final death knell for an artist like Llewyn? Or does it remind us that a massive folk boom is about to sweep up the middle ranking artists (like Llewyn) and give them success (success, incidentally, that I can’t see Llewyn handling without further growth).

[–] Soodinum 9 years ago

For God's sake. He didn't keep the cat indoors. The cat escapes the day after playing the club, as it did at the beginning. The time he blocks the cat's escape is earlier in day the film starts in, so we didn't see it.

Ffs.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] EyeInSky 9 years ago

I have only seen the movie one time, but I believe the beginning scene of him playing at the club is the same exact scene as Llewyn playing at the end of the movie. Llewyn gets beat up both times exactly the same way by the dark figure (the husband of the wife Llewen heckled and was making loud critical remarks on stage).

At first I thought him accidentally letting the cat escape was "the next morning" but in actuality from that moment on was a huge flashback beginning at THAT moment until the end of the movie (which we saw in the very beginning).

Llewyn is a victim of his own poor choices, but just as you think things look grim for him you do see signs of him evolving and improving. The shot of him succeeding in keeping the cat inside was the first sign of it (this happened at the very end of his story before his performance at the end/beginning of the film). His passing comment to the man who beat him as he left in the cab was also a sign of acceptance and taking resonsibility for his own actions. I perceive the end to show there is some hope for Llewyn and that he won't continuously be in this "loser loop" for the rest of his life. Part of this hurdle was being able to get over the loss of Mike - his former partner.

[–] Soodinum 9 years ago

Take it from someone who owns the film and has seen it dozens of times:

At the beginning of the film, the cat escapes the morning after he is beaten up.

At the end of the film it flashes back to the night before the film started (when he abuses the other performer, which is why he is beaten up later) and then you see the MORNING of the day where he is later beaten up. He stops the cat from getting out, and later that night at the club he is beaten up.

[–] EyeInSky 9 years ago

I have to see it again.

When I first watched the movie I initially thought the cat escaping was the morning after he got beat up. But towards the end, I got the impression the cat escaping was actually the very start of the movie (apx. 1 week prior) and the entire movie was a flashback journey of his travel to Chicago to perform in that audition and then return back home to perform in the night club.

Was Llewyn still bruised or sore from the night before to confirm that scene was actually the morning after (and not the morning 1 week prior)?

[–] Soodinum 9 years ago

Actually, the way you ended up taking it also fits. Both THAT way and the way I outlined (he does apologise for being a mess the night before, but that could refer to the beating or just be a regular apology he doles out).

But there is no room for the crazy loop theories etc. it's a pretty straightforward story that involves a flashback element. I'd accept your reading of it too - I'll watch it again with that in mind.

[–] EyeInSky 9 years ago

Please do - as I'm curious myself. I personally think the "mess the night before" apology you speak of might have been an intentional red herring the Coens put in to fool the audience into thinking the story was progressing forward (as if what you are seeing occurred AFTER the beating at the night club).

I think the progression of Llewyn's arc works better after you see what he's gone through (in the past) which led up to him misdirecting his anger at the innocent lady on stage. In a way, he needed to get his a** kicked to force him to "wake up and smell the coffee!".

In this structural context, in the past he makes the mistake of letting the cat out. But he now shows us the day before the performance he ensures the cat stays in (thus... finally learning from his mistakes). He's gone through 2 abortions. He's carried the weight of his former partner's suicidal death... carrying that weight with him as he carries the weight of the orange cat. In the end, it does seem he is finally able to cope and move on (regarding Mike) - possibly further represented by him being able to leave the cat behind.

There are most definitely some unresolved feelings between Llewyn and Jean. I suspect he still loves her, and there is no doubt in my mind that she still loves him. She's highly frustrated and passionately angry at him for "ruining her life". Not so much with the pregnancy because it takes two to tango (although her character is flawed and she seems to prefer to pass the entire blame on him), but the way I see things is because in order to survive she ended up settling for Troy (while cute & talented is not the one she's truly in love with) because "everything Llewyn touches turns to sh*t". Her persona reflects a very long period of heartache invested in a relationship with Llewyn that just wasn't going anywhere - and largely due to his own poor choices.

Even the decision to make a quick $200 bucks over taking royalties was a bad choice in the long run, but he needed quick money to pay for an abortion (that may or may not be his) and so his downward spiral situation created a vicious snowball effect where he's continuing down a path of making bad decisions just to tread water. He's an unpleasant character, and a jerk at times yet I still felt sympathetic towards him his acting was so good I could almost literally feel his pain. Despite his terrible interactions with people, I still found myself rooting for him.

[–] Soodinum 9 years ago

You're right. Film kicks off with the beating, then flashbacks to everything leading up to it.

He stops the cat escaping on the morning of the day he's beaten because he already let it out earlier.

[–] EyeInSky 9 years ago

Okay... phew! :-)

Isn't the depth of this movie amazing? You can see the movie several times and STILL get more out of it.

I'm looking forward to seeing Hail Caesar! this weekend... although from what I hear this movie isn't "deep", more light and fun. Rotten tomato score doesn't look that promising though. Majority of critics really liked it but the audience score is quite low.

[–] EyeInSky 9 years ago

A quick (but semi-late post):

The apology about "what a mess he was the previous night" was actually due to his drunken outrage towards the lady folk singer on stage. He was acting rudely and heckling her. BUT... I found it very interesting he started behaving that way immediately after the music clubhouse owner mentioned to Llewyn that he "F'd" Jean!

No doubt Llewyn was stewing inside over it, but obviously he can't afford to punch the owner/boss so instead he unjustifiably redirects his anger toward the innocent lady on stage - with such comments such as "What did YOU have to do to get on stage?" Etc.

It was all about his anger and resentment at his own situation and how he realizes he lost the girl he loves (and who clearly loves him) because of his own failures.

This is quite a sad & tragic tale on multiple levels. It's also ironic how Llewyn Davis's music is actually DARN GOOD (even better than some of the other wonderful music we heard throughout the film). His incapability of catching a break makes me wonder if his personality is the way it is BECAUSE of that... or... if his continuous failure is a result of his rude personality? What came first... the chicken or the egg? Which is kind of "circular" like the movie itself.

Fascinating movie, and the Coens hit every note solid on this one.

[–] billymac72 9 years ago

Thanks for this. Good synopsis of the various metaphors. Sound reasoning.

What do you think of his father? I liked the film, but that was one scene that rather annoyed me because it seemed like a cheap incontinence joke at the expense of the audience's emotion.

[–] Iron_Giant 9 years ago

That was a sad scene for me, capped with some very black humor. However, I don't think it was simply a cheap joke. Llewyn has made an attempt to use his talent to make an emotional and musical connection with his father. We want Llewyn to have this sort of breakthrough moment, but the fact remains that senility/dementia is not sentimental, and we are denied a heartwarming or tearjerking conclusion to the scene.

Llewyn must not experience success so that he will stay in his cycle of failure, and so his character is not permitted a moment of triumph. Of course we want to see his music connect and give his father a brief moment of clarity, but the film won't grant that moment of relief to the character or the audience. That tender and honest scene is ruined in the most foul and undignified way possible, given the situation.

[–] EyeInSky 9 years ago

Terrific explanation, Iron_Giant.

That is what makes Llewyn's character (and situation) so incredibly sad. Not only can he not catch a break in the music industry, apparently his music can't even reach into the "soul" of his own father.

Him crapping his pants could either be portrayed as purely innocent (due to Alzheimers or Dementia). But it's also quite possible there was a glimpse of recognition on his father and him crapping his pants was his way of flipping Llewyn "the bird" for not visiting him enough (or general family disappointment).

Llewyn's song was (ONCE AGAIN) very soulful and heartfelt! It's so sad that he cannot seem to reach into the hearts of his audience (HIS audience in the movie) or even his own dad (willful or not). I really liked you how you described the scene as "tender and honest", because that is what it was. Yet the response was also *brutally* honest as well.

He can't seem to connect with Jean. He can't seem to connect with a producer. He can't even connect with his own dad (most likely due to his medical condition and not by the father's choice). He can't even seem to connect with the cute orange cat that keeps running away at the first opportunity (lol)!

Yet, through his music how can the audience not sympathize with him? How can we not have some feeling of rooting for him and his success - in hopes we (as the audience) can see him succeed in climbing out of his hell hole? Much of the hell hole he's in is self-inflicted, but it's also very obvious a lot of it is pure unfair. The hard lesson is that life ISN'T fair... not even for Llewyn. What an incredible movie this is!!! I cannot believe the hate that I see for this film. I not only read negative comments here on IMDB but on other sites & forums as well (many rating it zero or 1/2 star if they could). I ask myself... did we even watch the same movie?

[–] DreamersxDisease 9 years ago

Yet, through his music how can the audience not sympathize with him?

There's kind of a sad yet beautiful irony going on here in that regard. Llewyn and his music can't seem to get over that barrier to help his life start turning around..and yet it does connect with us watching (well most of us).

I know a lot of people dislike Llewyn and think he's just a plain ol' jerk, but one can almost feel like his only friend while watching it. You're right, how can we not sympathize with his songs and the depth at which he plays them? We do, but no one around him can which makes it frustrating, but also is a great way to engage the viewer at the same time, in my opinion.

As for the scene with his dad...I think it's sort of like what has already been said. It feels like it's building up to this sort of meaningful moment and then that happens. In almost any other movie we would've gotten that moment, but ya know, it's the Coen's haha. It's just another notch in Llewyn's failure belt. It can be said it's left ambiguous enough to not know just how "there" his dad was and whether it was done on purpose or not, but I think it wasn't. Llewyn was hoping for something he just can't get anymore with his father, because he is too far gone...and maybe Llewyn feels a bit regretful about that.

cannot believe the hate that I see for this film.

I'm right there with you. I adore this film, even if I can understand why someone wouldn't be pulled into it. I've seen it several times now and enjoy it every time, it has so much going on in it and I think people just aren't willing to delve sometimes. But I love it and will keeping watching it!

[–] 000 (474) 5 years ago

i didnt go to film school, so i am sure ive missed quite a bit. i was thinkin the cat was a metaphor for his child(ren), but overall i thought the film needed an actual ending

[–] DaveBowman2001 (520) 5 years ago

5. This is yet another Homers Odyssey reboot. Hero's journey story. He passes the poster for the movie Homeward Bound (the incredible journey). Llewyn definitely grows/evolves as the story goes on. Everyone else is kinda seflish, even though we are tricked into thinking Llewyn is. Yeah he is in parts for sure, but people around him are sleazy and deceptive too. It's NYC after all.

6 I think Dylan's time lifts all boats. Llewyn succeeds, becomes his own man (not a duet), finds his voice. Maybe he's not super commercially successful, but he finds his place in life vs. giving up and going back on the boat (full time anyway).

Worthy of multiple viewings. I bought the DVD. If nothing else, the music is fantastic.