MovieChat Forums > Side by Side (2012) Discussion > Does anyone still prefer film to digital...

Does anyone still prefer film to digital?


Now that Hollywood is transitioning from the use of film to digital, a lot of people who love film say that eventually digital will catch up to film and that celluloid would no longer be necessary.

But I want to know if there is anyone here who still prefers celluloid film to digital, even as digital is improving.

One place to go for that is here: http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Customers/Film_Matters/index.htm

So, film advocates, how would you respond to the objections raised by advocates of digital and film-advocates-turned digital advocates? ("There's no reason to keep technology from developing," "Digital can replicate film easily," "As for the look of film that can be recreated very well and soon will be indistinguishable. Things like grain, lens flair and colouring can all be done digitally." "There are projects which couldn't be made without digital.")

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I believe the concept of "making digital look like film" will quickly fade away. It seems to be a question in many filmmakers' minds, because of the debate, but honestly...

Did we ever discuss "how DVD can be made to look like VHS?" Of course not, but this current debate is fueled by the thought (erroneous, in my opinion) that somehow the look of real film is somehow better.

I think that in a year or two we won't be hearing the debate, digital is working fine and is improving, while giving filmmakers more flexibility in their shooting. The debate shouldn't be about making digital look like film, the debate should only be about making digital look the way the director and cinematographer want it to look, so that the eventual audiences will have the best viewing experience possible.

TxMike
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

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Roger Deakins on Arri Alexa versus Film and I agree with him.


Deakins confesses that he was initially “a little nervous about working with a digital camera,” but found the Alexa to be “a very intuitive, film-based system — it really feels like a film camera. The great thing about digital is that you can see the results on set while you’re shooting, which makes it easier to sleep at night. We established the base look on set, and that tracked through dailies, editing and final color timing. It’s great for the director to really see what you’re shooting, because that makes your collaboration and conversations easier and more refined; you don’t have to try to explain how the image will look later.

“The Alexa is a game-changer,” Deakins maintains. “This moment has been coming for a long time, really, but with the Alexa I believe digital has finally surpassed film in terms of quality. What is quality? It’s really in the eye of the viewer, but to me, the Alexa’s tonal range, color space and latitude exceed the capabilities of film. This is not to say that I don’t still love film — I do. I love its texture and grain, but in terms of speed, resolution and clarity of image, there is no question in my mind that the Alexa produces a better image. There is a beautiful roll-off between highlights and shadows [on the Alexa] that I haven’t seen before. There’s a subtlety in color rendition that is fantastic. I tested it in candlelight, and it was beautiful how the camera picked up variations in skin tones and texture. If you shot that same scene with film, you’d get a very monochromatic feel — just a color wash — but the Alexa can read subtleties that film cannot.

“Sometimes I get annoyed with the garbage I hear about film vs. digital,” the cinematographer continues. “Most of it is simply nostalgia and silly thinking. I love film, sure, but this camera has brought us to a point where digital is simply better. In my opinion, there are now more advantages than disadvantages to digital cinematography.”


Whole interview is here.
http://www.theasc.com/ac_magazine/November2011/InTime/page1.php

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Good points, thanks for taking the time to post this for all of us.

It is much like film vs digital for point-and-shoot cameras. I still have a few old film cameras, I like to look at them occasionally but my digital cameras do such a better job, are more versatile, and as Deakins says, "You can see the results right away."

Technology usually wins over nostalgia when you want to get results.

TxMike
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

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although I prefer film to digital, I'm more concerned about digital projection. 30% of the magic of seeing the film in theaters for me is the wonder of watching 24 photos a second flicker through light

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I'm sure you get a similar kind of nostalgia when playing records as opposed to CDs. Before I turned 7, I always imagined that LPs had been constructed from live bands playing their instruments, the vibrations of which would have forged the grooves into the plastic. This made me feel like the LPs had a direct connection to the band and were therefore quite special. Shortly after, CDs came out and even though they sounded infinitely better, they were grooveless pieces of plastic. It was instant hate. Their lack of character and machine assembled perfection held no appeal for me.

Of course, I eventually discovered that records were similarly produced in bulk but still felt they possessed more character. There's a lot more manual work involved in the construction of an LP as opposed to a factory produced CD. Likewise, film has the personal touch of many hard-working, painstakingly determined contributors. That special level of character is its appeal.

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It is time to progress beyond grain, blur, flicker, and incorrect coloration. We can NOW get beyond those, so why not? Skip the grain - see more detail, reduce the blur so YOU can see whichever part you choose to look at, higher frame rates so things look better since our eyes don't flicker normally and this is just old 24fps technology that "WORKED WELL ENOUGH" at the time of creation 100 years ago, and color realistically rather than depend on the off colors of film.

We can ADD grain, blur, flicker, colors as needed. But being forced to STAY limited to those kinda sucks.

I'm working on a 60 frames per second 4K short film / tech demo and I think it will turn out amazing.

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It is only an issue with a small fraction of adults alive today. In a few short decades the "controversy" will only be a footnote in "film" history.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

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As much as I believe that there is room for both film and digital, I prefer film.
It's more for me about reliability and simplicity of it. The film cameras are built like tanks and simple to operate and set up. No cords and wires all over the place.
You can recreate the "look" of film on digital but it'll be easier to shoot on film and not spend a lot of time recreating it in post.
You don't have to worry about 2K or 4K. You can scan film to whatever format that you need and not limited to the camera's native format.
There is more focus and discipline while shooting on film, keeping you on task and on your toes.
Now, if you are working on a low budget, it's a little different. You can use high end digital (Mostly on Red Epics) or Super 16mm/2 Perf 35mm and if are making a VFX/CGI heavy movie, shooting digital make sense since you don't have to scan millions of feet of film.
Digital and Film can work together instead of either or.

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[deleted]

It will be a long time before film becomes "extinct", surely after we all have died. But there is no good reason to believe that much film will be used to shoot feature movies anymore. The disadvantages simply outweigh the advantages.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

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[deleted]

The disadvantages simply outweigh the advantages...What exactly do you mean?

I believe the documentary covered it well. Extended shooting without needing to change cannisters. Smaller cameras that can be placed in locations that film cameras can't. Getting an acceptable image in lower light. The ability to see what you captured without waiting for dailies. And a number of other things that make digital more versatile, not to mention the lower cost.

We need to remember for most feature movies the main motive is profit. When digital allows you more flexibility at a lower cost with a super image, it just becomes the technique of choice more and more often.

The only disadvantage to digital is some believe real film has a different and better "look" to it, but to me that is a very iffy disadvantage because it never has been proven to be real. To do so you would need some sort of double-blind test of the same scenes shot both ways, the only way that one could actually settle the issue.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

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[deleted]

With no intention to actually argue, a couple of points:

Filmmakers who value the "break" required when changing film canisters still have the freedom to take that same "break" with digital, they just don't have to deal with the canister. They are not required to shoot for longer periods when using digital.

I really doubt that you or anyone else can tell the difference in a scene shot on film or digitally just by viewing it casually. There are too many variables with each that can be manipulated to yield the look that the filmmakers want.

I personally find it hard to believe that shooting the same amount of image time with digital isn't significantly less costly than shooting with film. When you consider the cost of the raw film, the cost of manpower required to handle it, the cost of transporting it, the cost of developing it, the cost of making a digital intermediate.

..*.. TxMike ..*..
Make a choice, to take a chance, to make a difference.

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[deleted]

Film has a certain cinematic aspect to it. The colors bleed on the screen, as they did at the movie drive ins, back in the day. It looks more classic. Although I'll admit certain films have me thinking; birdman, her, ex machina, and I don't know...mad max. All great films, but still, they might have looked better on film, who knows. All I know is movies shot in film have a certain look to them, and I prefer that look.

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I could care less about whether filmmakers are opting to shoot on digital over film.

What I want is a guarantee that when I go see a re-screening of a classic at the local cinema (ie Hitchock, Renoir, Lean) that I get to see an actual film print... as in a projectionist loading reels of celluloid into a projector. Not from some crappy, computerized black box that projects something digital from a Zip file and isn't operated by anyone.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

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Go back and watch a high quality print of Patton, or Ran. They almost look 3D.

Some of the older movies on film look better than any UHD digital, not because of the resolution, but because films used to use Technicolor instead of all the sepia washed out look that is popular now.

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Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllll subjective

all films look different (3D to some sometimes maybe?) based on lensing, sets, lighting, focus, framing, lens glass, movement, coloring etc etc etc etc etc

film was the best they had at the time. digital is better and improves everything. if one doesn't like "better", that's subjective.

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