MovieChat Forums > Once Upon a Time (2011) Discussion > I gotta say...

I gotta say...

posted 8 years ago by blakebagu
46 replies | jump to latest

The show I once loved has gone downhill fast. And you know who I blame? Hook.the first season was great, and after watching the rest of the show for years, I realized why. It had no hook. It was peaceful, nice, interesting. THRN season two comes, hook and all, and blows that to pieces, albeit slowly. At first the whole "I'm hook and look how angsty I am" act was believable, fresh, but then it never stopped. Suddenly there was a fandom, shipping, childish little fan wars, and you think the writers don't acknowledge that? They do and did. Now suddenly hook is the hero of the show, oh look how much character development. Not. He's just there. He doesn't do anything but the repetitive angsty new character act. It got old, and it brought the show with it. It suddenly has to acknowledge him in every plot line, he stole the attention from what made the show so likable. No disrespect to Colin, only the writers who became the coach to the fandoms horse.

[–] hnt_dnl 8 years ago

If I had to pin it on one character, it would be Hook, who I never liked even as a villain, then what felt like out-of-left-field feelings for Emma that generated the CaptainSwan ship. It's more the Emma side of things that kills it for me because she tries and tries and tries to be convincing that she loves this guy, but it's really her scenes with him are the only time I don't buy the character, and it sticks out since she's essentially the central character and overall lead of the show. But, yeah, Hook is an immensely overrated character on this series.
He's the reason they got rid of Neal, which resulted into Henry having no more development, and Rumple being destroyed as a character. It was painfully obvious that a ton of fans did not want Emma with Neal and loved the hell out of the pirate and thought they had chemistry. Ironically the most popular of the show's main ships has the least chemistry.

[–] Boopinout 8 years ago

I agree that killing off Neal really screwed up Rumples character but I don't think Henry receives less development because Neal isn't there. It's nice to imagine a world where Henry and Neal would have spent a lot of time together, but even when Neal was on the show he wasn't a major source of screen time for Henry. I think Henry's development has been sacrificed because the writers don't know what to do with him and because, unfortunately, he isn't as popular of a character as he should be.

If Neal were in the show, how do you think that would have changed Henry's development? I think, though he'd have had some good father son moments with Neal, he wouldn't be much different.

Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral.

[–] ginnyjinxedandhanshotritafirst 8 years ago

Henry gets plenty of development. The whole season 4 finale was about him being a hero and saving his family from Isaac. He became the author. He's been given more to do than most teenage characters would in this kind of show.

[–] Boopinout 8 years ago

He gets a fair amount of screen time in finals and the occasional centric mid season but their are strings of episodes where he just disappears. And while I always like Henry I feel like a lot of his traits had to be dropped post 3b, more to accomodate Regina then anything else, but still sometimes his character changes a fair amount between the early season and the later ones that it's kind of weird.

Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral.

[–] decarus427 8 years ago

I think the biggest change for if Neal were still on the show, was that he would have been a much greater part of any dark swan arc. Henry could have talked to Neal about Emma turning dark and what it was like to have a dark one as a parent.

[–] Boopinout 8 years ago

i agree that if Neal were on the show for the Dark Swan arc Henry and him would have had that conversation, but that is like one scene. And even in the season as it was we understood how Henry felt. He didn't like it. Henry was one of the few characters who did get to express anger at Emma about what happened and he told her he felt betrayed.

Don't get me wrong I'd like these scenes but I don't really feel like Neal being on the show would have given Henry more development unless we change the argument to be that, if Neal were on the show it would be a different, more character orinetated show, meaning Henry would be better developed, which I don't think can really be proven.

I think there was definitely a decline in quality in the later seasons but I don't attribute that to one character as much as general formatting of the show and some bad writing choices all around.

Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral.

[–] DonnaMedici 8 years ago

Yeah, I agree that the whole show would be better if Neal were still around. Killing him off was a huge mistake because (as he was the true reason for the curse that brought them all to Storybrooke) he was the premise for the entire series as well as the antagonist's motivation. No Neal = No need for a curse to drag everyone to our world. Back in grad school, my storytelling prof said you never eliminate your antagonist's motivation before the final chapter, and in killing Neal that's exactly what they did. No Neal, nothing to drive Rumple. Nothing to drive Rumple, nothing to drive the conflict.

Keeper of Rumpelstiltskin's walking stick
Lady Gold 

[–] decarus427 8 years ago

Well, i think it would have been more then one conversation, but i do agree that the decline is not for one character. The original decline in Season 2 was a Regina problem. Hook was not important, as a character, at all in Season 2, in my opinion.

I think the problem with the show is their complete lack of ability to write a coherent redemption story because they write plot and not character. The characters move the plot and not the other way around except on Ouat it is the plot the moves the show. The characters exist at the whim of the plot and are therefore inconsistent. Though, i think that the problem with Season 2 began immediately with the second episode when Emma and Snow weren't in it, or were in one scene at the end. That was such a terrible idea, that i still have no clue what the writers were thinking. The split arcs was a symptom of that problem.

Though really i just think the writers think their audience is stupid. Which i am not sure why, recently Eddie said that there are audience members that know the show better then they do. That should just never be a thing.

[–] Boopinout 8 years ago

I always think that the lack of good redemption arcs on the show is a huge cause of the shows problems too. It really messed with the shows internal morality which made it hard for other stories to have the effect they should and had a run on that has hurt all the characters in some way or another.

Besides that though I think it's mostly format. Like your example of Snow and Emma getting sucked away at the start of season 2. I like that story line but it just happens to quick off the heels of the curse breaking. It's drama, drama, drama at the cost of a slow development and exploring the new situation the characters are in (free from curses and in our modern world). The focus on drama and the next big thing over letting the character deal with the problems in front of them and really get over them is what, to me, sucked out most of the heart of the show because we rarely see the characters deal with stuff.

And it's not like that only applies to Hook, or scenes relating to Hook, which is why I can't blame him entirely for the decline in the show. Majority of the characters have some arc in their story that their fans wished were addressed just a little bit more,

Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral.

[–] hnt_dnl 8 years ago

Yeah, the writing for Henry has been non-existent for about 3 seasons now, however just having Neal there instead of Hook would be better because all Hook functions as is Emma's love interest. It wouldn't just be Henry and Emma/Regina, but he'd have substantive scenes with Neal, and by extension, Rumple.