I gotta say... - Once Upon a Time (2011) Discussion

[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

No.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] blakebagu 8 years ago

Thanks for the enlightening response, can't say I expected more tho.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

Not much to say to someone who picks out one character and just hates on them. It's not like you'll be open to a discussion, you've made up your mind that the show went downhill and you picked your scapegoat. I'm just registering my total disagreement with you, not looking for conversation.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] blakebagu 8 years ago

I would be open to discussion if you had something to say worth discussing, but as it stands you so far don't.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

Same question as to the other poster then. What is your actual objection to Captain Hook? He's an integral part of Peter Pan, and Peter Pan is an integral part of Rumple's story because he's Rumple's father and he not only shaped Rumple, he battled with him and tried to kill Rumple's son. Captain Hook was always going to be a part of that story. And once they had it that Rumple's wife ran off with Killian, that's even more entanglement with Rumple, one of the four main characters. You may not like it that he's Emma's boyfriend, who would you prefer for her? You want discussion, there are some points to discuss if you're up for it.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] decarus427 8 years ago

I know you just started watching the show, but Peter Pan wasn't going to be Rumpel's father. They weren't going to do Neverland. That was all changed after they decided to keep Hook on. We are having a three year old conversation.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

I know you just started watching the show, but Peter Pan wasn't going to be Rumpel's father. They weren't going to do Neverland. That was all changed after they decided to keep Hook on. We are having a three year old conversation.

I didn't just start watching the show, although I don't see what that has to do with it. I've been watching the show, I just haven't been on this board. As to what they were or were not going to do, the fact is that Peter Pan is indeed Rumple's father. I know you like to say even major plot points and character development doesn't count unless it's something you personally agree with, but that's what the show presented. That's the canon of the show. There's no point in saying it wasn't supposed to happen that way, because it is what it is. Peter Pan is Rumple's father, and Rumple one of the main characters. Captain Hook is therefore an important part of Rumple's story. Discuss what's actually going on, not what you wish had happened three years ago.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] decarus427 8 years ago

Then you can't use things that weren't supposed to be part of the show as to why Hook was important in Season 2. Hook wasn't important in Season 2. He was a one off character that was the minor henchmen of the half and a villain from Rumpel's past. They then kept him on and only then created a story around the character.

They didn't have to write what they wrote, so that isn't evidence of his importance in Season 2 which is what the thread was about. The OP is talking about the failings of adding Hook's character in Season 2, so you can't use future unwritten things as reasons for his importance back then. That is illogical.

I am also fairly certain you said in one of these many threads that you have popped up in that you just watched the show online somewhere. Maybe you meant for a second time, but it seemed like you were a very new watcher.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

Then you can't use things that weren't supposed to be part of the show as to why Hook was important in Season 2.

You're only saying that because Hook became an important character and you reject anything good about him. It makes zero sense to say that his storyline doesn't matter because you didn't want it to happen. And I did say I was rewatching some of my favorite scenes and episodes, but you fail to mention why that has anything to do with, well, anything. New watchers have just as much right to form opinions and comment as old watchers. I get the impression you've been watching for a while but it doesn't seem to have done you any good.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] decarus427 8 years ago

We are talking about Season 2 when Hook was added. Future things don't count in that conversation as evidence of why what happened in Season 2 should have happened. If you don't understand that, i can't help you.

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[–] ginnyjinxedandhanshotritafirst 8 years ago

Whatever.

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[–] crysania76 8 years ago

The show was good in season 2 too. But once they decided that their precious Killy-poo was a hero and not a villain and had to shoehorn him into every plot, even when it made no sense, the show really started to go downhill. He is BORING and kind of gross, but they love him for some godforsaken reason.

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Murder is a bad first impression.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

When did it not make sense for Killian to be in a plot? I'm curious if you have specific examples. His life has been entwined with Rumple's from the beginning because he's the one Milah, Rumple's wife, ran off with. Once they made Rumple the son of Peter Pan, well, Captain Hook is part of that story and has been since almost the invention of Peter Pan. Emma is the savior, so her boyfriend is going to be an important character. I didn't care for the constant killing and bringing back, it was starting to seem like South Park or Hercules:The Legendary Journeys, nor do I like it that Killian came back and Robin is still literally in the wind, but if you have some specific examples of a plot where Killian didn't belong, or where you would prefer to see someone else, I would like to know.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] crysania76 8 years ago

So many times? Like, literally he is useless most of the time.

The whole "Hook becomes a Dark One" thing. Not only unnecessary but it totally ruined the Emma as the Dark Swan plot. It made the whole thing stupid and pointless and completely ruined what could have been a decent plot.

The whole Belle goes to Hook to hide the dagger. There was literally NO REASON why she would go to the man who tried to kill her multiple times. But they had to give him something to do and shove him into the plot somehow. It would have made so much more sense for her to go to someone who, say, didn't try to kill her. Like, maybe going to Charming or Snow?

Or Hook going after Emma in NYC. Which should have been pretty much ANYONE else. The Charmings or Neal.

I just find most of his scenes completely useless. And he could have been interesting. I love Colin. But the writing for his character is just really bad.

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Murder is a bad first impression.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

The whole "Hook becomes a Dark One" thing. Not only unnecessary but it totally ruined the Emma as the Dark Swan plot. It made the whole thing stupid and pointless and completely ruined what could have been a decent plot.

This I agree with. I didn't like that whole plot line, I think it should have been about Emma.

The whole Belle goes to Hook to hide the dagger. There was literally NO REASON why she would go to the man who tried to kill her multiple times. But they had to give him something to do and shove him into the plot somehow. It would have made so much more sense for her to go to someone who, say, didn't try to kill her. Like, maybe going to Charming or Snow?

Snow murdered Cora's mother to save Rumple, and she and David only had one heart between them even before Regina gave David half of Snow's heart. What you're saying doesn't really make sense, because Belle wanted someone without divided loyalties. You may not like it that she forgave Killian, but she did. Deal with that and move on to the fact that Killian does not have divided loyalties and he will not have any conflict with dealing with Rumple, like David and Snow would.

Or Hook going after Emma in NYC. Which should have been pretty much ANYONE else. The Charmings or Neal.

Killian was the only logical one who could go to New York for Emma. Everyone else had lost their memories and was in trouble themselves.

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[–] crysania76 8 years ago

I don't have to DEAL with anything. It is absolutely ridiculous that she would forgive him for NO reason other than "the creators needed to shoehorn him into her plot." It's going to happen again.

And no, everyone had not lost their memories. EMMA had lost her memories. Neal had not, but they had to have some convenient way to of his character even though he was the lynch pin on which everything sat. And Snow and Charming just shrugging their shoulders and saying "Oh well, she's lost to us let's go about our business" was completely OOC. But they had to have Killy-poo wander off to NYC to be the "hero" or whatever.

NOTHING they have done with his character post season 2 has made sense. And I hate that because I really enjoyed his character in season 2, in the same way I enjoyed Regina as the villain.

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Murder is a bad first impression.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

That's true. You don't have to deal with the canon of the show if you don't like it, but it does make it hard to have a reasonable discussion. 

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] crysania76 8 years ago

What reasonable discussion? You're coming in to argue with everyone who doesn't like Hook. That's fine. You may love him all you want. But the fact is the writing for his character is awful and I am alternately annoyed and disgusted by the character. I had to actually turn off the scene of him and Emma making out on the couch because it made me that uncomfortable.

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Murder is a bad first impression.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

Not liking Hook is hardly the same as dismissing everything about his character because you hate his guts. He's a major character now whether you like it or not. And I did ask you some questions, and all you can do is bitch at me and refuse to say anything other than just looking at him makes you uncomfortable. Hardly an interesting response.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] crysania76 8 years ago

Yes I'm aware he's a major character. And that would have been fine if the writing for him was anything decent. But it's not. And yes, he makes me uncomfortable. He reminds me rather strongly of the slick abuser I fell in with some years ago. He doesn't LOOK like him but he sure ACTS a lot like him. But hey, that's fine. I guess it's hardly an interesting response. Neither is your constant defense of him. Frankly I've had this conversation with you Hook fans one too many times. It's same old same old. "HOOK IS NOW THE BESTEST CHARACTER ON THE SHOW SO JUST DEAL WITH IT." Yeah ok. Why don't you let those of us who don't like him actually discuss why without jumping down our throats with how awesome you think he is?

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Murder is a bad first impression.

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[–] blakebagu 8 years ago

Exactly. I did say it went down hill slowly, because some of season two still had the season one charm, but then... You know.

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[–] decarus427 8 years ago

I think the first real problem in Season 2 was when they separated Snow and Emma from the group, so they were only in every other episode for the first like ten episodes. Then Regina started acting insane and inconsistent and the episodes in Storybrooke were absolutely terrible in the first half of the season, in my opinion. Hook getting brought on was a symptom of what went wrong because of the mistakes they made in the first half. While i loved Emma and Snow interacting in the Enchanted Forest, episodes without them did not work. The writers then ended the separation sooner then they intended, added Hook in when he was really only going to be in a couple episodes and die, and just completely changed the conclusion of Season 2. Season 2 is a convoluted mess and Hook is barely a part of that season only as Cora's henchmen.

What is crazy is that Season 2 is a masterpiece compared with how bad 3B, 4B, and all of 5 was.

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[–] KelseyRosalie17 8 years ago

I've been on this board since before the show aired, and is was hardly peaceful on here. There was a lot of fighting that really started in S2. It just wasn't as ship related as it is now. Regina and Rumple fans, usually stans, as well as Regina and Rumple detractors, were constantly fighting with each other. The OUAT fandom has existed as long as OUAT, so I don't agree that Hook started that. He just got his own section of things.

IMO, the show's biggest flaw is the inconsistencies. They exist with all aspects of the writing too, such as the characterization, the timeline, the events, the rules, etc. And all characters have suffered because of it too.

Hate Hook of love Hook, the show has had problems before him, and the same problems have continued after him. I'm not trying to change your opinion on who you blame, but I am just sharing what I think is wrong on another level. We all have our favorites and least favorites, but I don't think any of them can solely take the credit for something like that.

People inspire you or they drain you. Choose wisely.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

So it was always bad?  That's kind of disappointing. I've always liked all the characters, I never thought it had to be warring factions as if you can't be a fan of Rumple and Regina and Killian and Emma. The only two characters I've every absolutely hated and despised were Cora and Milah. I think you're quite right to say that no one character is to blame for how the show has gone. To some people it's gone downhill, other people may think it's improved. I've mostly enjoyed it.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] KelseyRosalie17 8 years ago

I wouldn't say it was all bad. Season 3 is the season that I would say this board was the worst. There was just a big topic, the villains and redemption, that a lot of people went back and forth on, with a lot of arguments between certain groups. People didn't need shipping to debate or argue.

For the most part, the people that were regulars were very respectful, even if things did get heated up a bit. Season 3 did make a lot of things tense on this board. But things have been much better than that.

People inspire you or they drain you. Choose wisely.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

It does seem a shame. There are so many fun topics to explore in this show. I think probably most of the fans could write a dissertation on their favorite character. There's theories to explore, and ideas about what is going on with the characters, and like I said, I just don't get the zero sum thing, where if you like Rumple you can't also like Killian, or if you love Emma you're supposed to hate Regina. I really don't get the raw hatred for Killian, to the point that people are rejecting parts of the show that make him look good; or the blind love for Rumple so that it's not even possible to discuss what's going on with him because at this point a lot of what's going on with him is not good.

For the most part, the people that were regulars were very respectful

That's good to hear. Maybe there are still good discussions left in the show.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] Boopinout 8 years ago

I agree. I joined fandom late season 2 when CS was still a crack ship and there was still fighting. I remember arguing with Regina stans all the time because they couldn't admit that she was a child abusing rapist. And even in the season 1 commentary Jane Espenson talks about how Rumple and Regina fans would fight over who was the "real" villain.

I just don't think Hook is single handledly responsible for bringing the show down. Most of the problems people have with Hook existed before his arrival in Regina. I think it was the shows commitment to sloppy redemption arcs that brought it down. Having Emma remain single would have been awesome but that's the only negative that I think Hook is personally responsible for and even then, I feel like with these writers that was an unfortunate inevibility. If it wasn't Hook it would have been someone else and the result would be much the same.

Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral.

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[–] fingerskeys92 8 years ago

I agree with opinion that the show's biggest flaw is the inconsistencies. I pretty much like all of the characters, whether I agree with their behaviour is a different story, but I find them all entertaining. I do get frustrated with these inconsistencies. I know ths show is fantasy, but it would be nice if rules were laid out and followed.

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[–] ginnyjinxedandhanshotritafirst 8 years ago

He's not going anywhere. The writers wanted him on the show back in season 1, but couldn't get the rights. They love Colin, they love writing for the character. And your whining isn't going to change that.

Might as well just accept things as they are. Because it's all out of our control.

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[–] Thoraxe-the-Impaler 8 years ago

Didn't you just create a thread a couple of days ago talking about Regina and whining about her?

I guess maybe you should take your own advice then.

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[–] decarus427 8 years ago

Yeah, this isn't true. The writers would say they wanted to do every fairytale they were ever asked about during Season 1. That doesn't mean they special wanted Hook and certainly not Colin. They had no plans for Hook back in Season 1. That is simply untrue. They only made Hook a love interest between Season 2 and 3.

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[–] Zanza8 8 years ago

He's not going anywhere. The writers wanted him on the show back in season 1, but couldn't get the rights. They love Colin, they love writing for the character. And your whining isn't going to change that.

Might as well just accept things as they are. Because it's all out of our control.



http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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[–] blakebagu 8 years ago

Who said I was hoping to change it...nice try tho. And yes I know about them wanting him in season one. Good thing they didn't get him, it saved that season.

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[–] eliduhh1 8 years ago

wait so hook is the reason the fandom is insane?.....uhhh okay. let's just completely ignore that people had lots of problems back in season 1 with character fights and how rumple and regina fans would constantly jump all over each other. or how people would say how snow and charming were boring and criticized any little thing they did..this fandom has always been, uhh aggressive. it's just with ships came a lot more people so now it feels more major but EVERY fandom has ship problems.

you can tell who and who hasn't been in this fandom long enough. but sure hook is the cause of all the problems, not the plot holes,writing inconsistency or wacky timelines or how EVERY character gets the same arc every year..but yeah, one character is the problem 

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[–] heathermwilliams-51540 8 years ago

I used to love this show. The first season was amazing. The second two seasons were very good, but the 4th season was disappointing and the 5th season was amazingly disappointing.

I love a show with strong female lead, but at this point it feels like a bunch of women emasculating men and trying to prove that the world doesn't need men or that the only men with any power are evil.

I also feel like the writers are clammoring for outs. Many times there are predicaments the characters find themselves in then suddenly an answer appears that didn't work before. Take for example changing the names on the headstones. Hook couldn't remove the names from the headstones. Okay, fine, but he, out of the blue, comes to the realization that Hades just so happened to enchant his hook and he can replace a name on the headstone. It feel like four year olds wrote it.

So sad to see a good show fall off the grid. The 5th season will be the last season I watch.

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[–] Boopinout 8 years ago

I haven't heard a lot of people claiming that the show supports the emasculation of men. What story lines, in the later seasons, make you think this?

Mostly I've heard a lot of people claim that the women on the show became too dependant on men as the show went on.

Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral.

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