MovieChat Forums > Saltburn (2023) Discussion > Barry Keoghan was so miscast. Oliver was...

Barry Keoghan was so miscast. Oliver was obviously meant to be charming and cute in the script

posted 10 months ago by emori (3661)
32 replies | jump to latest

There is no way anyone would be charmed by Barry Keoghan. And he didn't even try to be nice and cute. His Oliver is creep and psycho.

There was no reason for Felix to single him out and wanting to hang out with him. He wasn't fun. Or smart. He was looking like depressing sad ugly psycho.

Then he shows up at mansion and again - all those rich people fall in love with him at a moment. While he literally is just walking around looking ugly and quiet. He wasn't sexy and anything either.

Yet all those people fell at his knees. He is basically male version of Mary Sue.

Movie had to be realistic. They had to hire cute or at least charismatic actor to play Oliver. Because it's obvious he was that way written in script. This role required someone looking like young Jude Law, young Ryan Phillipe, young Ethan Hawke. That type of hot sleazy bastard.

And it was actually very bad acting from Barry Keoghan. As he is not a good actor. He didn't even try to look nice and charming. He had one face expression throughout whole movie. For some reason Hollywood tries to make him happen. He will not Happen. That's why Saltburn flopped at the box-office. People dont care to see Barry Keoghan in lead role. No matter how Hollywood press and studio try to hype this movie at awards season.

[–] CMX (265) 10 months ago

I guess you havent seen The Banshees of Inisherin if you think he's not a good actor.

[–] rudeboymurray (3270) 10 months ago

This. Not to mention Calm with Horses, The Killing of a Sacred Deer etc. He’s one of the best, most daring and most distinctive young actors currently working in cinema.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

He is not. LOL.

What great is here? Any high-schooler wannabe actor can play this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJQ9iV9ziM4

He has a tendency to play either creeps. Or mentally challenged city idiots.

Here is Saltburn he was actually challenged to play role out of his ordinary range. Young Jude Law, Ryan Phillipe, Ethan Hawke type of charming sleazy bastard. When audience have to be in dark and guess about his motives. When he is suppose to look like nice innocent boy who charms everyone and they bam - its revealed he is sociopath and calculate murderer.

And he failed. Few seconds with him at Oxford and you know he is psycho and guilty. And lies about everything. And you dont understand why on earth all those people were charmed with him and let him in his life. Because script said so and he was suppose to be charming.

That's why Saltburn flopped so big. Despite being pushed so much by press and constant interviews. Barry Keoghan is not gonna happen no matter how much they will push him.

Saltburn looks expensive. Some say budget might be between 10-38 millions. It only grossed 12 millions in USA + 9 millions overseas. They probably spend more on interviews and flying the cast around for them. It flopped because public rejected Barry as lead.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

What great is it here? Any high-schooler wannabe actor can play this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBIsqYO9l8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1--J0qu6ol0

[–] CMX (265) 10 months ago

That's pretty awesome that any high-schooler wannabe actor can get an oscar nomination.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

Oscar nominations have been a joke for many years now. Kristen freaking Stewart has one now. For cosplaying Diana. By just wearing her wig and wonder around. Austin Butler has nomination for cosplaying Elvis. Despite being very dull in everything he did. But he wears "Elvis costume" like it's Halloween and suddenly he is Oscar Actor. LOL.

Every year they give their diversity quota to random non-white actors. Who didn't show anything but were chosen out of other randomly because voters were bullied with that Oscarsowhite nonsense. No one even pays attention to them and remembers names.

When literally worst actress in the world has an Oscar nomination for Halloween cosplaying of celebrity it just shows how low they fell. No one apart those actors and Hollywood press take Oscars seriously. It used to be badge of honor. Like it means you really can act and is talented. Now any idiot can have it if studio payed for that nomination.

[–] CMX (265) 10 months ago

All that doesn't change the fact that Barry Keoghan was phenomenal in The Banshees of Inesherin.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

No he wasn't. You may personally like any movie or actor. Like really really like. But it doesnt mean anyone was "phenomenal".

I saw here person claiming Abbie Cornish was "phenomenal" in some her earlier movie. And I open trailer. And it's just some low budget boring Australian movie. And there is nothing "phenomenal" about her role.

[–] CMX (265) 10 months ago

Its hard to take you seriously when you base your opinion on someones acting performance on a trailer or on the fact the movie is"boring" and low budget. I mean what sort of a childish argument is that?

Havent seen that movie personally so cant comment on Abbie Cornish, but Barry Keoghan has been universally praised for his performance in The Banshees of Inisherin, its not just my opinion.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

By whom? Press who praises everybody and even praised Kristen Stewart for her movies despite her being worst actress in the world?

I’m telling you what it is. Barry Keoghan had to prove he is real actor and play someone out of his usual self (creeps or mentally challenged idiots) and he failed. Movie flopped at box-office hard despite huge publicity campaign. And Barry is not receiving any serious nominations.

Stop fangirling Barry. Nothing special about him.

[–] CMX (265) 10 months ago

"And Barry is not receiving any serious nominations."

All of a sudden nominations are important to you. 😂 Just before you were saying how anyone can get nominated.

I shouldnt be surprised, after your infantile "I saw a trailer of a movie and it was low budget so the actress sucked." argument.😂

[–] AnagramYYZ (606) 10 months ago

I get the impression that Oliver correctly surmised that Felix and Farleigh, to start with, would tolerate company that would allow them to embrace their superiority and massive egos, while at the same time, also feel philanthropic about helping an unfortunate. This extends to the mother, Elsbeth, too, who seemed to board Pamela for the same reason, until she had a new pet project in Oliver.

Also, the reason Oliver is not seen as welcome to court the sister, Venetia, is because the houseguests are second-class. It could be argued that even the butler, Duncan, understood this.

The Cattons weren't threatened by Oliver's intelligence and academic success, but they may have been if he were also traditionally handsome, sauve, stable and upper middle class. So, the young Jude Law-type would have a more difficulty trying to pass off as anything other than machiavellian rival. Imagine Jude Law in the scene where Sir James is buying off Oliver to leave, and Oliver insists that he can't "leave Elsbeth in her condition" or whatever. This played as a solid strategy for the Barry Keoghan Oliver, because it comes off with this "little boy with mother issues" charm, and you're meant to wonder if it might actually work. The Jude Law Oliver would engage more skepticism from the audience, who ultimately are meant to feel sorry for the Cattons who were taken completely by surprise by what Oliver called, "natural predators." Predators can be camouflaged.

In other words, you couldn't be more wrong with a claim that the Irish actor, Barry Keoghan was miscast. I believe the role was even written with him in mind.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

You are reaching too much and try to justify and find excuses. Writers of this movie is not that deep. No matter how bad and inconsistent any movie might be - there are always be people who will try to justify it and make up their own explanations. Sometimes movie is just bad because of bad and lazy script.

Writer Emerald Fennell was born in Hammersmith in London to jewellery designer Theo Fennell and author Louise Fennell (née MacGregor). Her sister, Coco Fennell, is a fashion designer.

Fennell was educated at Marlborough College, a private school in Marlborough, Wiltshire. She then studied English at Greyfriars, Oxford, where she acted in university plays. There she was spotted by Lindy King of United Agents

This was written by posh upper class woman who literally wrote her own fan fiction version of Talented Mr. Ripley. Its all that it. But she wanted it to be Edgy so she wrote in few gross scenes that come out of nothing for no reason. Because she wanted people to be shocked and talk about it.

You think that Oliver was master-psychiatrist-manipulator who knew mental history of Felix, mother and father before hunting Felix to convince him to be friends with him. And where to push. He was not.

That why this movie is not getting awards and they just include it in top-10 because some has to be there. But not in top-5. Because movie is not great.

At least if they would cast charming pretty actor then movie would make more money. But no one cares to see and spend 2 hours with Barry Keoghan.

[–] AnagramYYZ (606) 10 months ago

I'm genuinely perplexed that you seem to be doubling down on your obviously erroneous take on Barry Keoghan and Saltburn. Before I respond to your subsequent post below, I'll just point out that everything I said requires zero reaching and is quite plain as day in the film. You must have been talking during the movie or looking at your phone or something. I've seen it three times now and was very focused in my analysis.

You also assume that I made a case of Oliver being a mastermind manipulator who had the whole scheme plotted out from the beginning to the end. I didn't suggest that. I only know that he networked to associate himself with more prestigious friends, and determined based on his early interactions with Felix and Farleigh that their guard was down when he simply allowed them to feel superior. Therefore, he made up lies about his tragic upbringing, poverty and recently deceased drunk father. Once he had spent a considerable time at Saltburn facing one obstacle after another to his deceptions, he eventually decided he would have to work to essentially overthrow the family he came to hate and assume their lifestyle his own way.

The lazy & petulant justification here is what you are bringing to the table when you suggest that this movie was just some throwaway fan fiction that was not thought through. Emerald Fennell was educated at Oxford and just came off her debut film, which won an Oscar for her screenplay, and nominations for Director and Picture. It's very important to a lasting career trajectory to follow things up carefully when such early success is achieved. The notion that her second script would be pedestrian and basic ("not that deep"), or some half-baked remake of a 25 year old movie that hardly anyone talks about any more is absurd. She didn't even reference The Talented Mr. Ripley as being among her influences, because the connections to that film were quite superficial.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

Of course she will not refer it as influence. Because it was a bad imitation.

Where Talented Mr. Ripley was organic and made a lasting impact on viewers and critics. This poor imitation will be forgotten the moment awards season will end and media and studio will stop trying to push it into everyone throats.

Movie flopped completely despite press aggressively pushing it for months. With constant interviews. I was actually surprised it made only 11 millions. The way it's everywhere in press every day with Barry and that Elrodi guy you would think it's some new cult film, super popular among young people. But no. No one cares to watch.

"connections to that film" are very in your face. We have another young con-artist, who is nerd looking. Who is using lies to insert himself into life of young pretty rich naive good person. With intentions to take his money and wealth. Who then kills his object. Out of despair and almost accidentally. Also there is a blond woman who is always around and suspects nothing. Gwyneth/Venetia. And sleazy disgusting friend who sees through our character and can't stand him - Phillip Seymour Hoffman / Archie Madekwe

It's literal rip-off. How can you not see it? She could not do it step by step. So she changed ending to him killing whole family and take away their fortune.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

The Jude Law Oliver would engage more skepticism from the audience, who ultimately are meant to feel sorry for the Cattons who were taken completely by surprise by what Oliver called, "natural predators." Predators can be camouflaged.

Every audience literally saw that Oliver was creep who is up to no good. From the moment they met him. Because how creepy and not charming Barry is. I actually wanted movie to surprise me and not make Oliver crazy stalker and murderer. I even hoped that maybe something else happened to Felix and Oliver didn't kill him Because it was so predictable from the moment we saw Oliver. Since they didnt show his death. But then he killed sister.

I felt I have spent 2 hours for this movie and it wasn't worth it. If Jude Law type would play "nice Oliver" the audience would actually be surprised to see him turn evil. Or young Matt Damon. When we felt sorry for that poor boy who wanted better life. And seemed harmless until he killed Jude.

Barry lacked that charm completely. The moment you saw him you screamed to Felix - run and don't engage with this creep. But then everyone who met him - was charmed by him immediately for no reason. Even hot popular daughter for some reason. Despite Oliver being out of her league and she would never flirt with him.

[–] AnagramYYZ (606) 10 months ago

Not everyone is going to agree with your impression of Barry Keoghan or Oliver Quick. You seem to imply that people who give off vibes of being socially awkward or nerdy, are more likely to be creepy stalker killers without even a hint of introvert charm. This is not even the conclusion of investigative profilers in the real world, who recognize the link between sociopathy, narcissism and strong interpersonal skills. If I were the Cattons, I would not suspect Oliver as being ill-intentioned. Only the audience are given these clues, but are also provided room to doubt based on the red herring of possible homosexuality.

Also Venetia killed herself. He only pushed her buttons before leaving the razor for her on the edge of the tub.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

No way Venetia would kill herself. Movie script making her was almost offensive.

Script wanted her and she did. When person lives normal life and has no suicide intentions - they will not go and kill themselves only because some weird creep they have no respect to would come and talk to them for few minutes.

Would you do that to yourself if some Oliver like creep would talk you into?

They killed her only because they wanted to finish their story with: "Look, Oliver is such mastermind that he killed them all and inherited whole money and mansion". Would not be possible if daughter would be alive.

But they ignored cousin. And all other relatives. By showing she "sighting papers". It was badly written movie. Like a fan fiction written by 17 years old school girl that loves Talented Mr. Ripley.

[–] roreyking (591) 10 months ago

If you dislike Saltburn & Keoghan so much, why are you wasting so much time & energy on this thread?

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

I don't dislike him. I'm discussing movie. His fans convince me he was good. I dont think so. So we have an argument.

[–] roreyking (591) 10 months ago

@emori: You say Keoghan is “creepy & not charming”. That there’s “nothing special about him”. And this gem: “Very bad acting from Barry Keoghan. As he is not a good actor. He didn't even try to look nice and charming. He had one face expression throughout whole movie (Totally untrue. You must’ve spent slept through 99% of it).

Then you say: “I don’t dislike him.” LOL! I’d hate to read what you have to say about actors you say you do dislike.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

Well I wrote the truth. He was miscast here and he does look creepy.

Ezra Miller looks creepy too.

[–] roreyking (591) 10 months ago

That's not the truth. That’s just your opinion.

[–] AnagramYYZ (606) 10 months ago

I think your analysis of Saltburn lacks depth. You recognized similarities with the basic plot points of another film that you enjoyed, and you insisted on interpreting it on that level as just some reimagining.

It’s a different movie, dude.

If you pay attention to the subtleties, you will see that although Oliver is capable of murder and is morally reprehensible on some level, he was not a full-on con artist with initial intention of destroying the Cattons and taking over for monetary gain. He just didn’t want to be a loser like the Oxford math wiz, Michael, and so forth.

This is why you won’t accept what is shown with regard to Venetia. You are too determined to like the Cattons, when it’s obvious they are meant to be selfish sheep, and have loads of their own deficiencies. Oliver has a character arc where he forms an intense love of the family, admires their respectability and interpersonal skills, but then becomes disillusioned by their intense snobbery and their thoughtless cruel nature. He also didn’t like their family friends at the dinner party with the Henry’s. Who would associate with those people?

The Cattons were indeed lazy dogs that lie belly up, as Oliver phrased.

The breaking point for Oliver was when it was disclosed that Pamela had committed suicide within weeks of her exile, and they assumed she did it for attention. He liked Pamela, or at least more than Elsbeth who wouldn’t even defend or mourn her own friend. That communicated to Oliver that they were coldhearted stiff-lipped Brits, and they don’t value those who may have problems. Here’s the thing, though… they also think Oliver’s family has problems. At that moment, he realized he was just Felix’s version of Pamela: someone they can secretly snark at, and eventually tire of. Watch Keoghan’s terrific reaction in that sunbathing scene and a couple of others, because he perfectly conveys his character’s realization that the Cattons are pretty despicable. They were pretty much like the young lady, Annabelle at Oxford.

Anyone who jumps to the conclusion that a suicide was attention-seeking is also projecting their own dramatic tendencies. Hence, Oliver thought it possible Venetia would follow suit, and she did with both her words and actions.

Oliver, like I said, did many bad things, and he definitely would be guilty of negligent homicide on at least one occasion.

On the other hand, he’s the protagonist, so we are forced to embrace him. Fennell wants us to understand the reason for lack of remorse over the loss of the Cattons in the end.

The Cattons, and Farleigh sucked. The turnover rate of the footman was notoriously high.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

Oliver has a character arc where he forms an intense love of the family, admires their respectability and interpersonal skills, but then becomes disillusioned by their intense snobbery and their thoughtless cruel nature.

You can't be serious with all that projection?

About poor innocent Oliver who came with love and admiration and then killed them all because they were rich snobs. LOL.

They literally showed that he was creep and con-artist who planned it all. Starting with flat tire on Felix's bike. To insert himself in his inner circle. And lying. And his interaction with own family shows that this was his usual behavior. His mother and father thought he was Top Scorer at Oxford. He lied to them about having many friends and be so smart. He lied to them he was working day and night. That he does plays, rowing team. He was a pathological liar.

I don't remember they saying it was suicide.

Felix:
- I didn't know you were going to London

Mother:
- Pamela's funeral. She could do anything for attention.

Considering Pamela's arc was that she was hiding from mafia ex-boyfriend, who they all eventually decided she was making up and kicked her out - she was actually telling truth and that guy killed her. That's what I get from it. And Mother just being ignorant with no emotions. Like when Felix died she reacted the same. Like it was not big deal. Mother was a little crazy herself.

He did not like Pamela, LOL. He literally turned out on her when told she was kicked out and hinted to Mother that Pamela was lying about her struggles. He was sociopath who killed Felix. He did not "like Pamela".

Stop making up things that are not there. There are inconsistencies simply because of weak script. And not because everything was I Big Masterplan from author. She created this Tom Ripley like guy who won at the end. And then tried to put pieces for it to happened. And failed at it.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 months ago

She didnt kill herself. She had help.

[–] Thaisticks (3020) 10 months ago

"Every audience literally saw that Oliver was creep who is up to no good. From the moment they met him. Because how creepy and not charming Barry is"

It's clear that English is not your first language. Perhaps one must be more steeped in western culture to be able to really appreciate this movie. It did receive 5 Bafta nominations, but was just too outre for the more conventional Hollywood suits. I expect it will have a long life on streaming services.

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

It received few Bafta noms because its a British movie.
It was not a great movie just accept it. That's why it flopped despite big promotion company in press.
That movie was forgotten the moment they stopped sending Jacob and Barry to endless interviews
I was truly shocked when I saw how much it flopped. As with that hype in press I thought it's mega popular among young people. But no.

[–] Thaisticks (3020) 10 months ago

It also got some Golden Globe awards, Critic's Choice, and a slew of others. It's also the number two trending movie according to Rotten Tomatoes--I'd call that pretty far from forgotten, wouldn't you?

[–] emori (3661) 10 months ago

Look at the box-office.

[–] Thaisticks (3020) 10 months ago

Does that negate the commendations I just mentioned? You are very naive about movies if you think box office returns determine the quality of a movie.

[–] szschem (10) 9 months ago

*spoilers*
I agree that he was miscast.

I disagree about his acting ability though. I think he’s an impressive actor based on other stuff I’ve seen of his.

But here, I didn’t buy him as a gay man and I didn’t buy him as a sociopath. This may be part the fault of the script. He was too sensitive in parts to turn out to have been a cold calculating sociopath all along.

I’ve read some reviews that suggest the movie was a bit tongue in cheek—the “idea” or reinterpretation of a noir film rather than an actual noir film. Perhaps. It was stylish and visually impressive. But the twist left me in disbelief. Maybe I like my noir film a bit more literal.