Rose's ethnicity


It's happening again just like with The Hunger Games (Katniss had olive skin in the books). Rose wasn't white, she was half-Turkish and there are many passages in the books describing her dark eyes and eyebrows and hair and olive-like skin tone. Why are film makers so afraid to use ethnically diverse girls as the lead? It's not going to put me off watching the film because I am a fan of the books but it does bother me.

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To be fair she's half Scottish as well. There was a person on tumblr actually from Turkey who said they didn't get why everyone was making a big deal because where they were from everyone was light skinned.

Everyone just needs to stop kissing me! - Caroline Forbes

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Turkish people can look anything from mediterranean to asian or euro-caucasion. However, the description of Rose in the book clearly make her mediterranean-looking.

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In the first book, Rose describes her skin looking like the inside of an almond. I don't know what kind of almonds you eat, but the ones that I eat have a have a creamy color to them.

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lol exactly

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[deleted]

I don't like these pushes to PC conscience.

Is it more important that the actor be the same color in pigment, or that they bring the character to life with their acting ability?

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So you're implying that only a white girl could play Rose ? We already don't choose the more talented actresses as leads, but the most talented actresses among the ones who also attractive. So unless you would be perfectly ok to see Rose played by someone severely overweight or in other way unattractive then you should understand why I have a problem with this too.

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What? where did the last poster say this? They only said that the important thing here is that the actress portrays the character well. Besides, Richelle has said MANY times that Zoey looks pretty much like the Rose she imagined in her head or at least that she totally sees her as Rose. So why would you bring this up again? Zoey looks the part. And Mediterranean isn't a separate race from Caucasian if that's what you're implying. Not that it matters. The tan of her skin is not important.

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"They only said that the important thing here is that the actress portrays the character well."

Yes, sure in a perfect world that would make perfect sense, but you know very well that there are standards "of what a lead needs to be like" that have nothing to do with talent. They would not cast someone who looks like jersey-shore-snooki in the role of Bella Swan, even if that actress (not snooki mind you, just someone who looks like her) would be amazing acting-wise.

Which to some degree makes sense because attractive people tend to generate more money. However, casting white leads even in the very few instances (count them on the fingers of one hand will you) where the lead is not white even in the original material, where you already have mostly white leads in the YA genre, that says something beyond "oh they just cast the best actress". It says something about the industry, mainly that (many) film-makers believe a black lead would bring the show less success.

And I don't think anyone should bend over backwards to cast minorities in lead roles, I'd never be one to propose they should have made Harry Potter black or Bella Swan asian (though I'm pretty sure the uproar from that would be far worse and a lot more people would be bothered by it). But when you already have SO few young adult novels with a minority as a lead anyway, why do you have to whitify them too for the screen?

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Sorry about my other reply, it was actually a reply before you posted this I think. Or at least before I saw it.

I do understand where you're coming from Cristina. I think we actually do share the same perspective. I want diversity as much as you, but I don't think we'll ever get it done by forcing it. I see so many threads of people bothered because of an actor's hair, eye color, skin color--very superficial things.

I am quite sure that US president Obama got a lot of his votes just because he's "black," and that part of it was because there's a push for diversity. Funny thing is, he's not even black. His mother is of Irish and English ancestry.

So I ask you this, would you want Rose played my Zoey because her acting is a better fit, or would you rather take someone that is olive-skinned because she looks more like Rose?

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this is not about "getting someone who matches rose" this is about getting proper representation in this industry. you think pointing out whitewashing is the same thing is complaining about hair colour or eye colour? let me tell you that it is not that, we just want more POC in Hollywood.

they didn't even bother to give POC a chance because they think she is not leading girl material. I have seen the trailers and zoey is good but nothing a POC couldn't do. open your eyes and see that a lot of TALENTED women of colour are trying to break into the industry but can't because hollywood is obsessed with pretty white girls.

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Oh come on, what the hell are you talking about. The people involved with the movie said they were looking all over for somebody that matches Rose's description and that Zoey - look wise - wasn't even their first choice. But she won them over with her acting. Clearly no one was better.
And I really wonder how you can want more equality in everybody having the same chance to get cast no matter their ethnicity/race and then undermine Zoey getting the part for being a "pretty white girl".

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This is not about "getting someone who matches rose" this is about getting proper representation in this industry.


Your first sentence destroyed the credibility of your post. Because it shows that you don't care who the best person for the job is, all you care about is this thing called POC.

And already you're going about it the wrong way. By identifying POC, you are keeping out a race. By your strategy to give other races more opportunity, you've shut down a race's opportunity! Okay, I was wrong. Not just a race, but a stupid color that is an umbrella over a bunch of races by basically saying all caucasians (regardless of ancestry) are to stand here, all others without white skin stand over here.

I had an English teacher way back in 1996 that was upset because when he took his SATs for college, he had the higher score but was beat out by a black person for the scholarship because of affirmative action. Funny thing is, he just happened to be gay. Well back then, gays weren't recognized in the PC world as they are today.

I'm Chinese living in the USA. And Chinese by nature can be very quiet with the way we go about things. Should I wait for representation via my people, or should I blow minds with my abilities like Jeremy Lin?

The worst way to diversify, is to push and shove.
The best way to diversify, is perform.

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JFC maybe I worded it the wrong way. all I was saying was that pointing out these whitewashing issues are not the same thing as being picky about hair or eye colour like some of you say. this is much deeper than the shallow, superficial complains you see on tumblr. you keep saying over and over again that talent is most important, but in the name of "talent" you are excluding minorities. Zoey better be amazing as Jennifer lawrence was in THG, this is the only way I can be ok with this casting decision.

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"So I ask you this, would you want Rose played my Zoey because her acting is a better fit, or would you rather take someone that is olive-skinned because she looks more like Rose? "


Given the 2 alternatives I would say pick the better actress. Though that would imply that this Zoey girl was a better actress (or at least a better fit) than all the dark-toned/mixed-race girls who auditioned. Now I haven't seen this actress in anything yet and I hope she's fantastic and that I was wrong. But anything less and I'll be pissed.

It's because Jennifer Lawrance did such an amazing job as Katniss that I had no problem with her as the lead.

However, I still strongly believe that there is still a problem in the industry with casting minorities as leads. At least in the last few years it's gotten better and you don't see that many examples of films and shows using the Black Highlander curse (you know, there can be only one?) etc, but still minorities are PREDOMINANTLY used as side-kicks, not leads, to the point where you can't just brush that off as coincidence, otherwise we're gonna get caught in a "white people are better actors" fiasco.

And I don't want to force this on anyone. I would not make a law out of it or anything. But when I see a problem (or at least think I do) I will say something about it because I truly believe many people don't notice certain things. And from personal experience I can say that once you do start to notice, you can never un-notice.

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I was specifically talkig about Zoey, how it's important that she plays the part well. Agreed, looks are important in Hollywood that's just the fact. I just don't think that the nitpicking like that is necessary. I do agree that other ethnicities should be more present in Hollywood. But in this case the people involved with the casting did search for somebody like that, it's just that Zoey was a better actress.

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Exactly, And I'm implying that only Zoey could play the best Rose, at least according to the director of casting.

While we're here looking from the outside, since ALL we HAVE is the outside to work with, why don't we adjust for knowing absolutely nothing about what actor would best connect with the personality of Rose since we weren't there at the casting call.


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Oh no point talking to her, shes a mindless social justice warrior

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Jesus Christ, Rose IS white!

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rose was described to have desert princess looks, she gets her colouring from her father(who has dark skin) I imagined her to have same skin tone as frida pinto.

This is just unapologetic whitewashing from hollywood's part. fans like to defend the movie by saying "they just wanted someone who can do justice to rose." but not really, hollywood purposely got a pretty white actress to play rose because they think People of colour cannot sell a movie.

I wonder if the casting call was caucasion only, like katniss'

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Old news....this ship has sailed.....what's next? She's not curvy enough?


MOVE ON!!

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You know what, that comparison could actually work if you put it like this :

Say there is a general trend where almost all lead actresses in films and shows are unhealthy-skinny (and I don't mean present day skinny, but remember the heroine-chic era that started in the mid 90s where you could see models and actresses literally shrink on the screens? like that).

And then you get a film adapted from a book where the lead is described as being curvy, with well formed thighs and a bum etc and there are numerous passages dedicated to describing her like that.

And then you see someone like kate moss-thin (kate moss in the 90') being cast. You'd have absolutely no issue with that ? Wouldn't seem a bit strange that they could not find one single normal-sized girl who could act the part ?

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I just have a question about Katniss? How is she not supposed to be White from the books? Does her sister have a different father? Because she's blonde hair and blue eyes. If they have the same parents then how come no one is accusing Prim of being Whitewashed? I just assumed that she was White with dark hair and tanner skin.


To the person that mentioned Affirmative Action:
At my high school, there were scholarships for Polish-Americans and German Americans and no one had any issues with it.

As for Hollywood, many times they don't even audition minorities for lead roles. So if you're only auditioning White girls then how would you know if an Asian or Black girl were better actresses?

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A lot of constructive posts in here and I do appreciate it. Because I am listening (well, reading) and I do understand and agree that we should definitely give opportunity to people of all ethnicities.

But it's how we're doing it that bothers me. And how picky we've become at it.

To me using POC is just bad as whitewashing. You're doing the same thing, just in a different direction. I can't stand the term POC because it alienates not just one race but many. Am I as an Asian, or mixed, a POC? I can't stand these labels and terms. It only seeks to segregate us more.

And it becomes a silly game. I dated a Hispanic girl and we got in this silly, silly argument. She said I wasn't allowed to say wetback but she could because of her race. So I asked her this, since I'm both Asian and Caucasian, do I have the power to say *beep* and white trash? Or neither?

I don't want to be known as mixed race. I don't want to be excluded. I don't want the pendulum to swing one direction than the other. I've felt the sting of discrimination before. At my school in rural PA, I was the only Asian. I've also felt the sting against my white side, in Hawaii, people would call us Haoles and it had a certain derogatory stab to it.

Also, about the scholarship. This wasn't a scholarship that targeted a specific race. Affirmative action made the person who didn't qualify for the job beat out the better performer based on SAT scores.

I do have some good news though. I did hear that the new adaption of Rosemary's Baby will be played by Zoe Saldana.



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And it becomes a silly game. I dated a Hispanic girl and we got in this silly, silly argument. She said I wasn't allowed to say wetback but she could because of her race. So I asked her this, since I'm both Asian and Caucasian, do I have the power to say *beep* and white trash? Or neither?


Actually, I do see her point.
For me, as a pasty-white caucasion chick, calling a black person a racial slur may mean that I'm only joking, but it may also mean that I'm a raging racist. Because the person who I've just jokingly called a racial slur MOST PROBABLY has heard that racial slur being directed at them (or behind their backs) plenty of times in their lifetime, and not as a joke but in a "I'm better than you" way. If a black person calls another black person a black-specific slur, it can not possibly come from a place of feeling superior and thinking them as less, since they are the same race.

If you live in a society where there's still a lot of racism directed towards minorities, racial slurs can still be very hurtful. What was it ... 50-60 years ago that black people were generally regarded as second class citizens with less legal rights than whites ? This means that almost everyone has a parent or a grandparent who lived through that, felling like LESS their entire life because of skin color, and I am yet to talk to one single person of color who says they NEVER experienced racism.

In the same way, the term "wetback" was meant as a derogatory term towards illegal mexicans who supposedly came into the us by water. A mexican calling another mexican "wetback" can not come from a place of superiority because they share the same ethnic background, but a white person calling a mexican "wetback" CAN mean they regard them as less - less deserving of rights and opportunities, less capable, etc (illegals had no rights in US back when the terms was coined).

In the same way a gay person can call another gay person a "fag" because it can not possibly come from a place of "you're an abomination, you are twisted, you should not have the same rights as me", because as gay people they are in the same boat. But if I, as a heterosexual woman, call a gay man a "fag", even if in my head I meant it as a joke, it can still hurt because that person probably heard that slur all their life from people they thought themselves to be superior because they're straight.

And btw I'm not saying that you used the term "wetback" intentionally as derogatory, you probably did it in a lighthearted way. But anyone mexican who has been called "wetback" numerous times in their life by people who think they should "go back to where they came from" (even if they were born in US lol) may still feel hurt even if the term is not directed in a hurtful way.

So IMO, as long as there is still social discrimination and bullying and less opportunities etc because of the above mentioned things, I would stay away from racial slurs just because they can hit a place of deep hurt - which probably had nothing to do with me, but to witch I don't want to contribute to.

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Btw ... You said you are part-asian. I was in a situation once where a white girl kept making racial jokes towards this asian girl (we were all friends, but not close friends, just more like we knew eachother and sometimes hang out), and this was at a table with about 10 other people.

So she would make these random jokes directed towards the asian chick, things like "oh just shut, don't you have to go do someone's nails?" or "that was awesome, I'll send you 5 pounds of rice for that" and things like that, which were meant as jokes (written down they sound worse than spoken out loud in that setting) and the asian girl would seemingly smile like she was amused too. But later that night when we got talking I asked her if she finds that type of thing (white people directing "asian jokes" at her) to be ok and she said that if it's a really close friend maybe, but usually it does bother her and makes her feel uncomfortable, especially if there are many other people around , and she just doesn't know how to act because even if it offends her, she not a confrontational type of person.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that unless you are really really close friends you never know how that person actually feels about it. So personally I would avoid this kind of stuff all together.

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Colleges don't accept people solely based on SAT scores. What were the other factors GPA, extracurricular activities, essays. If you're talking about jobs, I work in HR and Tests scores aren't the end all and be all to who qualifies for what, since some are better test takers than others. Test scores from SAT would be mostly irrelevant for most jobs.

Not to say that Affirmative Action doesn't exist, but it is weird to say somebody deserved something more based on one test score not G.P.A (which is a slightly better indicator than test scores).

My point in mentioning the scholarships, that there are restrictions like that everywhere. Where I live at some places you can't get a job unless you speak Spanish or Polish in some areas, which is perfectly fine.

The problem with White washing is that they're excluding EVERYONE who isn't White that auditions. That's a huge problem. That is why minorities especially Asians and women of color (I think Black men get more opportunities than any other minority group outside of White women) don't get remotely the same opportunities in Hollywood. There have been numerous actresses who have said that they don't even get to audition for parts in non-race specific role bc as soon as that it is known that they are not White they get comments like "you're too dark" or that "we're not looking for someone like you"". Wouldn't it be fair to let them audition and base it on their talents instead of not letting them audition? I'm not sure about VA, bc I haven't read it.

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As a Bi man of Italian/Moroccan heritage ITA with ya, Jacksakes.

Talent and ability to realize an artistic vision is all that should determine whether an actor is cast.

Did you ever read that David lean had initially cast Peter O'Tool to play the lead role in Dr. Zhivago? For some reason or another it didn't work out. Omar Sharif played Yuri Zhivago to Julie Christie's Lara.

I've always had a feeling Peter O'Toole would have been a disaster as Zhivago.


http://vincentandmorticiasspeakeasy14846.yuku.com/directory

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I just have a question about Katniss? How is she not supposed to be White from the books? Does her sister have a different father? Because she's blonde hair and blue eyes. If they have the same parents then how come no one is accusing Prim of being Whitewashed?


The Hunger Games Universe is set several hundreds of years into the future so ethnic mixing is a bit different than today. Katniss and Prim are from district 12 and in this distrct people are described as having olive skin, dark hair and grey eyes. Prim was a stand out, she basically looked like a "minority" in her district because she, like her mother, had pale skin, blue eyes and blond hair. But Kaniss, Gale and most district 12 residents have dark hair, grey eyes and olive-toned skin.

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I hope its not too late to join the thread?

There were 2 "areas" in District 12 because one was associated with coal mining (the Seam) and the other was associated with businesses (Merchant). People from the Seam typically had olive skin, dark hair and grey eyes, and people from Merchant had blue eyes, blonde hair and pale skin. Katniss and Prim's mother is from Merchant so she is blue eyed, blonde haired. And their father is from the Seam so he is olive skinned, dark haired. I don't think Merchants were really a 'minority' because matters of skin colour were irrelevant but it makes more sense to believe the Seam was larger than the Merchant. But yes, Prim has her mother's looks and Katniss has her father's and genetic mixing (ethnic, i think is the wrong word because it means relating to a population subgroup within a larger or dominant national or cultural group with a common national or cultural tradition) is definitely different. Today, a child with a dark skinned parent and Caucasian parent will usually end up somewhere in the middle. (My aunt and uncle are like this and all four of their children are like that)and Katniss and Peeta's kid is olive skinned, blue eyed and the other is white skinned, grey eyed.

And as for Rose being whitewashed, I don't think Rose is as dark as some people thought her to be. And I wasn't expecting a American-born half-Scott-half-Turk to pop out of the blue and be an actress. I don't think its much of a difference in giving Rose justice if a Latina plays her or if a white American plays her. (And yes, there are problems in Hollywood with a majority of people being Western White and much less space for other cultures, so I don't think Vampire Academy is a stranger to this norm)Rose may have a different descent to the other kids in her school but above all she is born and raised in the US with very little influence from her parents. Her Turkish and Scottish culture only goes as far as her parents home countries.

Also, we shouldn't lump people who just aren't Western White into people of colour and we shouldn't lump white people into one section either. Germans are just as different to Americans as Filipinos are different to Turks. All of which have their own variety of skin tones. Skin colour is a huge factor that leads to stereotypes.

I would have much more of a problem if they whitewashed Abe because everything about him screams Mediterranean and its fair to the Turkish and Middle Eastern masses if someone Middle Eastern or even better, Turkish plays him.

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I would have much more of a problem if they whitewashed Abe because everything about him screams Mediterranean and its fair to the Turkish and Middle Eastern masses if someone Middle Eastern or even better, Turkish plays him.


Basically this ... I really hope they pick a Turkish actor to play Abe, much like they picked a Russian for Dimitri.

I've really not had a problem with Zoey's casting. The first few days I might have been like uhm ... but she really worked hard and her acting in the trailers, her expressions in the stills have me sold. She is Rose for me! Good acting and bringing the spirit of the character alive matters to me more than anything! Plus, me being Indian (of Middle Eastern descent), if I don't have a problem with the casting, then I don't know why others should.

Besides ... the "inside of an almond" ... is milky white!

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but she really worked hard and her acting in the trailers, her expressions in the stills have me sold. She is Rose for me!


Not yet for me, I'd want to see the movie first ... though from trailers alone I do like Zoey's attitude and she seems to have the kind of "spunk" and sarcasm that Rose has. I do hope for the best with her, I saw that some people didn't like that the movie seems a bit "campy" and marketed as a comedy, but I actually found the books to be pretty filled with comedic reliefs, mostly coming from Rose's funny one-lines, same as with Christian and Adrian.

But leaving the ethnicity part aside. I think I also have a problem letting go of how I imagined the visual dynamic between Rose and Lissa, because one was dark/exotic looking and the other light, so imagining them together has always created a certain picture in my mind and I haven't gotten used to them yet as not being as contrasting.

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I get that everyone read the book ages ago, and therefore, they all have their images/characterization locked in within their imaginations. I understand that it is hard to let go of that.

It is however strange for me when people say they imagined Rose to be dark ... like how dark? Turkish/Middle Eastern people are not that dark (plus she's half-Scottish). When I read the books, I imagined Rose to have skin colour like mine, which is only a a few degrees tanner than a white person.

I won't deny that Hollywood being Hollywood, they do like to play it safe. Perhaps I can give you an example. Last year a film came out called "Rush", starring Chris Hemsworth and Daniel BrĂĽhl (who is German), it was directed by Ron Howard and was based on a Formula 1 (racing sport) rivalry in the 1970s/80s. The film was a masterpiece and undoubtedly the best film I'd seen all year. It had themes beyond its subject matter of Formula 1 racing, which is not popular in America. However, the film didn't do that well in the US, and it totally got snubbed at the Oscar nominations, announced earlier this month. Not only was the subject matter too foreign, Daniel BrĂĽhl being German and not a big name, wasn't nominated (although he was for the Golden Globe, which is judged by the Hollywood 'Foreign' Press).

At the end of the day, Hollywood is a business and they will play it safe. I'm not trying to condone or justify the practice, simply saying that it is the unfortunate, but hard truth.

Yes, it could have been nice to have an actress with Middle Eastern origins, but at the end of the day, it is also important that the chosen actress can act, emote and bring the character to life. If Zoey can do that, and it seems she can, it will make it a worthy casting.

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Yes, it would be a bit strange. But it would only bother me if it affects the context of the story. In your example, if this role is to play Queen Kamehameha, the wife of the ruler of Hawaii, then yes, its a miscast to me since historically being bigger was a sign of both beauty and royalty. She was well fed and taken care of, after all.

So I guess before I go further, since I didn't read the books, is Rose's race important to the story? Or her olive skin?

I also have an example for you: 1976 Carrie. Carrie in the book was seen as pudgy and pimply. Sissay Spacek is neither. But she did such a great job with her acting, bringing this inherent creepiness out of her, that she became Carrie.

Which is cool. It seems all of us in this thread can agree that acting is the most important.

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So I guess before I go further, since I didn't read the books, is Rose's race important to the story? Or her olive skin?


I don't think so. Dhampirs have a slightly more tanned skin than regular humans they encounter anyway, for being outdoors so much and since the Moroi are very pale the contrast is there. The only thing Rose mentions is that she has exotic features, but I don't think she elaborates whether that is in contrast to the Moroi or Dhampirs. She is also half Scottish and her mother has red hair.

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So I guess before I go further, since I didn't read the books, is Rose's race important to the story? Or her olive skin?


It's funny, I once asked Richelle "how important was it that Rose's father (and her ethnicity) was Turkish" on a Twitter Q&A session and she said not so important, she just thought it would be cool. Of course, having built the world, she did add in some Turkish references here and there (I don't know how far in the series you are so I won't mention the specifics). But other than that, it affects plot ZERO!

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Say there is a general trend where almost all lead actresses in films and shows are unhealthy-skinny (and I don't mean present day skinny, but remember the heroine-chic era that started in the mid 90s where you could see models and actresses literally shrink on the screens? like that).

And then you get a film adapted from a book where the lead is described as being curvy, with well formed thighs and a bum etc and there are numerous passages dedicated to describing her like that.

And then you see someone like kate moss-thin (kate moss in the 90') being cast. You'd have absolutely no issue with that ? Wouldn't seem a bit strange that they could not find one single normal-sized girl who could act the part ?
False analogy.
In your example, the body weight of the character is important, since there are "numerous passages" describing her. So casting a thin actress would probably not work well with the plot.

In the case of Vampire Academy, the skin color of Rose is not important for the plot. What's important is that she looks attractive enough to be considered a potential blood whore by some of the Moroi. I guess she does.


Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.

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In your example, the body weight of the character is important, since there are "numerous passages" describing her.


It's really the exact same thing. I didn't say the weight of the girl was relevant to the plot, I only said that numerous passages described her that way, which is the same with Rose. She is described in "numerous passages" (by that I mean at least 3 or 4 times in every freaking book) as being exotic. The word "exotic" is also used numerous times. Zoey is anything but exotic. She is the typical fair skinned red head and you can see her skin is really pale in interviews. She was darkened a little bit with makeup, but doesn't look exotic, she just looks like a white chick who does tanning.

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I won't say you are wrong because opinions can't be wrong. But that's the thing - it's just your opinion. Have you actually seen olive skin girls? I mean not one or two, but actually did a research and seen how they look? Zoey is not pail or fair, in the films posters and snaps she is as olive as she could be and she look exactly like I imagined Rose would look like.

Furthermore, who are you to disagree with the author who created Rose and claim that she was miscasted because of the looks? Author said number of times that Zoey is exactly like she imagined Rose - even in person she seems the same. So please, be free to THINK what you won't but do not obligate your opinion as a fact. :)

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Author said number of times that Zoey is exactly like she imagined Rose - even in person she seems the same.


Oh please, it's pretty much part of her job in promoting the film to declare that all actors were cast perfectly. Authors have basically no saying in who will get cast in their adapted films, that's the job of the casting director, and if they are contracted especially for more than one potential film, they have to promote the film and say how everyone is perfect. You show me one example to the contrary.

So please, be free to THINK what you won't but do not obligate your opinion as a fact.


Yeah. Never did that.

Have you actually seen olive skin girls?


I have no idea where you live but you must be pretty sheltered to even asked such a question.

To me it's more surprising that people have a problem with me having a problem with this. Judging from pictures only, Zoey seems like the typical redhead with pale/rose-toned complexion. Going by the trailers, they ddid darken her a little with make-up, just as they did with JLaw in Hunger Games. Which to be frank seems silly to me, they did not cast a girl who looks as described in the books, so they could have just as well kept her hair red and her natural skin tone (which to me looks better on Zoey anyway).

But Rose is described numerous times as looking "exotic" and like a "desert princess" and having gotten her dark hair, eyes and eyebrow and skin coloring from her father, who in term, as described in the books, is a Mediterranean-looking Turk.

Why is it so baffling that I dare to question if this is just a simple case of "that white girl was just the best Rose", versus the Hollywood trend of casting whites as leads and minorities as side-kicks, even when in the original material the protagonist is not white.

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Oh please, it's pretty much part of her job in promoting the film to declare that all actors were cast perfectly. Authors have basically no saying in who will get cast in their adapted films, that's the job of the casting director, and if they are contracted especially for more than one potential film, they have to promote the film and say how everyone is perfect. You show me one example to the contrary.


Uhm, Anne Rice absolutely did not like the casting of Tom Cruise, but then he killed it as Lestat. She however, hated Queen of the Damned and still discourages fans from watching it. I on the other hand, love watching QotD despite it's campy, cheesy feel.

Also ... this http://mentalfloss.com/article/31001/11-authors-who-hated-movie-versio ns-their-books

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Oh please, it's pretty much part of her job in promoting the film to declare that all actors were cast perfectly.


Completely untrue. Richelle Mead's job is to promote her own work, not an adaptation of her work that was created by someone else. Most authors will maintain that adaptations and the books they're based on need to be looked at as two separate entities. Mead has said this herself as well.

You show me one example to the contrary.


Another poster mentioned Anne Rice as an example. L.J. Smith is another. She has said on her blog that she wishes someone would adapt her Vampire Diaries books into a series that is more true to her vision of the characters.

I know I'm a vampire, Snookie.

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Completely untrue. Richelle Mead's job is to promote her own work, not an adaptation of her work that was created by someone else. Most authors will maintain that adaptations and the books they're based on need to be looked at as two separate entities. Mead has said this herself as well.


It is Richelle Mead's job because she financially and personally benefits from the success of an adaption of her work.

Mead praising Zoey being cast as Rose doesn't really mean anything. Of course she will praise the casting choices especially the choice for the lead character, most authors are not going to criticize the casting decisions (or the writing) especially the casting choice lead character on a movie based on their work while promoting it because they want it to do well.

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Oh please, it's pretty much part of her job in promoting the film to declare that all actors were cast perfectly. Authors have basically no saying in who will get cast in their adapted films, that's the job of the casting director, and if they are contracted especially for more than one potential film, they have to promote the film and say how everyone is perfect. You show me one example to the contrary.


No it is not.I am studying this in university, publishing I mean, we discuss this kind of stuff every day and authors usually are distant and do not want to have anything to do with the film.
A lot of time in twitter questions VA author have said "I don't think about a film as my baby, I think about it as completely different case and not my work".

Zoey seems like the typical redhead with pale/rose-toned complexion.


Are you even serious? Redhead? She is in no way to the redhead land. She is brunette naturally and most of the time, unless her hair being dyed for filming or so. And you obviously haven't seen pale person or you wouldn't come up with the idea of Zoey being pale.

Here is ho redhead looks : http://www.ivstatic.com/files/et/imagecache/636/files/slides/Hendricks -477jpg.jpg

And here is how Zoey looks : http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/35600000/Teen-Vogue-2013-photos hoot-zoey-deutch-35656765-600-900.jpg

But Rose is described numerous times as looking "exotic" and like a "desert princess" and having gotten her dark hair


Yes she was, but she was called like that in order to Moroi girls. Because most of the Moroi girls are pale and flat while she was with curves and more toned skin. That's why she called herself exotic among all those moroi girls. Rose also has said to have the same skin as Dimitri, because they both are outside a lot. So are you telling me Dimitri were supposed to be tanned as turkish too?

Why is it so baffling that I dare to question if this is just a simple case of "that white girl was just the best Rose", versus the Hollywood trend of casting whites as leads and minorities as side-kicks, even when in the original material the protagonist is not white.


Because you are wrong. Author her self have said number of times how Rose looked and it goes with Zoey appereance. And to add, have you seen VA original covers? Rose is on them and she was chosen by author even before she dreamed about film going on, so are you seeing any turkish girls on the cover? No. Because author always told Rose is as any american girl with just a little bit of turkish featuress mixed in.

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Thank you for this correct explanation.
That Tumblr post about Turkish poeple not being all dark skinned belongs to me.
As a Turk, this is a conflicting issue I've always had to put up with but for the last time, will you please stop saying that Rose is supposed to look like a desert princess?

Newsflash: There are no deserts in Turkey. As the post above me points out, Turkey is a diverse country. You can find Kurds, NOT ARABS(well maybe a minority living close to the Syria/Iraq border), Caucasians, Greeks/Rums( I don't know the specific name but you know Pontus Greeks), Armenians, original Turks(Tatars etc.), and a whole bunch of different Balkan ethnicities.

You know about the Ottoman Empire right? Yeah well that was 100 years ago and as the name says, it was an empire, meaning it had a lot of different people in it. So it's a little bit stupid to assume a distinct look for a country like Turkey. It has 4 seasons so there isn't a specific way we Turks look. Actually, according to a recent study only 10% of Turks are actually Turks, we are descendants of the Ottoman Empire so there's no saying where we come from.

I personally look way paler than Zoey Deutch. I live in the Black Sea region and I've travelled a lot in my country. I've never seen any extremely tanned Turk in Turkey. Also, please keep in mind that Turks are not just the people living in Turkey. There are just way too many different Turkic people all around Russia, Caucasia, Asia and Europe.

We know that Rose is half Turkish and her dad is described as a tanned person. Abe might be from the Souteastern part but it's a small piece of land and most of the tanned people in Turkey live there. Of course it's a Meditteranean country but France, Spain and Italy are also Meditteranean countries. Do you nag about these people looking Arabic, too? I don't think so. We don't look like Arabs because we're not Arabs. Again, we don't know where exactly Abe comes from but I think he might me from the southeast of Turkey if he is that tanned. Probably from such provincs as Sanliurfa, Batman, Sirnak, Diyarbakir.. These are all where the Kurds mostly live. But the rest of Turkey is generally white.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say Rose is whitewashed in the movie? If it makes any sense to some of your misinformed heads about my people, Zoey looks more Turkish than me by your definitions or assumptions of a Turkish person.

All I ask of you is that please don't talk before you know something right about my country and my people. The world isn't just about the US, UK or Europe.
Richelle might have made a mistake about drawing a picture of Turkey with deserts in her books, but I think I know about the geography and ethnicity of Turkey than Richelle and most of you guys. NO DESERTS. NOT FULL OF TANNED PEOPLE. Actully most of my friends are white here, for your information.

So yeah, I wanted to say all these things again.
I don't want to talk about POC or whitewashing any longer because the point of my entire post is that you have some misled information about Turkish people and it's a bit offensive to me that you can be so daring at your uneducated assumptions.

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Thank you for this correct explanation.
That Tumblr post about Turkish poeple not being all dark skinned belongs to me.
As a Turk, this is a conflicting issue I've always had to put up with but for the last time, will you please stop saying that Rose is supposed to look like a desert princess?

Newsflash: There are no deserts in Turkey. As the post above me points out, Turkey is a diverse country. You can find Kurds, NOT ARABS(well maybe a minority living close to the Syria/Iraq border), Caucasians, Greeks/Rums( I don't know the specific name but you know Pontus Greeks), Armenians, original Turks(Tatars etc.), and a whole bunch of different Balkan ethnicities.

You know about the Ottoman Empire right? Yeah well that was 100 years ago and as the name says, it was an empire, meaning it had a lot of different people in it. So it's a little bit stupid to assume a distinct look for a country like Turkey. It has 4 seasons so there isn't a specific way we Turks look. Actually, according to a recent study only 10% of Turks are actually Turks, we are descendants of the Ottoman Empire so there's no saying where we come from.

I personally look way paler than Zoey Deutch. I live in the Black Sea region and I've travelled a lot in my country. I've never seen any extremely tanned Turk in Turkey. Also, please keep in mind that Turks are not just the people living in Turkey. There are just way too many different Turkic people all around Russia, Caucasia, Asia and Europe.

We know that Rose is half Turkish and her dad is described as a tanned person. Abe might be from the Souteastern part but it's a small piece of land and most of the tanned people in Turkey live there. Of course it's a Meditteranean country but France, Spain and Italy are also Meditteranean countries. Do you nag about these people looking Arabic, too? I don't think so. We don't look like Arabs because we're not Arabs. Again, we don't know where exactly Abe comes from but I think he might me from the southeast of Turkey if he is that tanned. Probably from such provincs as Sanliurfa, Batman, Sirnak, Diyarbakir.. These are all where the Kurds mostly live. But the rest of Turkey is generally white.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say Rose is whitewashed in the movie? If it makes any sense to some of your misinformed heads about my people, Zoey looks more Turkish than me by your definitions or assumptions of a Turkish person.

All I ask of you is that please don't talk before you know something right about my country and my people. The world isn't just about the US, UK or Europe.
Richelle might have made a mistake about drawing a picture of Turkey with deserts in her books, but I think I know about the geography and ethnicity of Turkey than Richelle and most of you guys. NO DESERTS. NOT FULL OF TANNED PEOPLE. Actully most of my friends are white here, for your information.

So yeah, I wanted to say all these things again.
I don't want to talk about POC or whitewashing any longer because the point of my entire post is that you have some misled information about Turkish people and it's a bit offensive to me that you can be so daring at your uneducated assumptions.

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Thank you for bringing some valid points into this thread!

However, I do feel the need to correct on something. No one looks like an Arab, because an Arab is not defined by looking a certain way. Arabs are actually descendants of an "original" Arab group that panned throughout the Middle East, The answer to what identifies someone as Arab is literally in the word. They speak some dialect of Arabic (as a sole language).

An example, (literally, just one example, there are dozens of Arabic dialects and vocabularies), Lebanese dialect is very different to Egyptian dialect, and there are very few dark people in Lebanon, mostly the darkest they would get would be a little light brown. In fact a lot of the Lebanese people I've met are incredibly light. Egyptians however range from a genuine dark brown, to plain white. My point here is that Arab is just a general term for people who speak only Arabic in the Middle East (not all of it,enchantmentsofnimueh pointed out MOST people living in Turkey speak Turkish as their mother tongue and Israelis speak Hebrew) and (independently defined) are also Muslim (again not all of it, Israelis are Jewish and their is a large Coptic portion of Egypt.)

I do have some personal input here because my dad's dad is Palestinian, my dad's mum is Lebanese and my mother is as Egyptian as one could get. Both were born and raised in Egypt and I was born and raised in Australia but unlike Rose my parents did have a heavy influence on me.

Anyway, I believe Rose said she thought she had semi-exotic, desert-princess looks but I think that would be a mistake on Mead's part. Or even just Rose because even though she is half-Turkish she has had little exposure to her father's background.

I do apologize for not wording my sentence right and generalizing Mediterranean by saying Abe is Mediterranean as they come. I just meant to point out that he was the 'exotic' character in a fantasy world full of pale political American Moroi. I knew very well that Mediterranean can mean dozens of incredibly different cultures.

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Turkish people don't only have dark skin, eyes and hair. Some even have red or light blond hair and green or blue eyes. Because in your mind you have some kind of ''typical'' girl in your mind, that doesn't mean that it's always like that. For example I'm from Greece and I have blue-grey eyes light brown hair and a medium skin tone. A friend of mine has nearly white skin and red hair.
P.S. I don't understand why that is such a big problem. There are plenty of films were the main lead has dark skin!

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