And twice? I mean honestly I don't understand it. And I didn't find it funny either. Poor guy had his father's watch stolen, is trying to play chess, and okay, he refused having a glass of vodka with her or dancing with her, but that's not a reason for her to slap him. Twice.
Is there an explanation for her behavior?
[deleted]
Yeah, I suppose her behavior has to blame on the alcohol (and perhaps the fact that she has a mean strike) but I don't understand why anyone would want to add this scene to the movie. I mean if they had wanted a "fight scene" between these two, it could have been written in a different way...
I don't understand how anyone can think her slaps were "playful" or stuff like that honestly. She hit him for no reason. Can you imagine the reactions if the genders had been inverted?
[deleted]
Another example is when they had that ridiculous scene where she stood on a table and he was supposed to stick his hand up her skirt to turn on her tracker. (Evidently she was incapable of doing it herself.....)
I've asked if we'd ever see a scene where the man was supposed to stand on a table with his pants down, so she could run her hand up his thigh to do the same thing for him. No chance in hell....
But the humour is in the fact that she does it to him, despite being so small - so reversing the genders removes the joke. He was so startled, his expression so cute that it was fun, not a chance to discover how sexist it was.
She didn't stand on the table with her skirt down, in her underpants, as a man would if he had his trousers down and he worked hard to be sensitive about it - the time he spends warming his hands is very funny. Their little exchange - what are you doing down there - trying not to get lost - is a very funny exchange, and the fact that in the end it's a huge switch which she could have turned on is funny (there's quite a bit of humour in the gadgets). And of course, it all leads to Solo's comments regarding being turned on, which is beautifully in character and leads to some very cute embarrassment for Illya and Gaby, who so nearly kissed.
You seem absolutely determined either not to see, or to remove the humour from the scenes. You can choose not to see it if you like, but the fact that it was humorous remains.
If you don't like this part of Ritchie's style of directing, that's fine - but his name never gets a mention, and he's responsible for these scenes.
Don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't see what was funny in Gaby slapping Illya, and your explanation does nothing to make me see what's "funny" in it. A small woman slapping a big guy is not a funny thing to me.
As for the other scene, I have zero problem with it. And I don't have a problem with Guy Ritchie's directing style either.
I wasn't speaking to you directly, so I wasn't putting words in your mouth. The nesting facility on the thread would show I was speaking to someone else.
That's fine - if you don't see the humour, you don't. For me, I think it was the surprise element, and her complete lack of inhibition - but explaining humour usually removes all the humour!
And good, regarding the other scene, but as have explained, I was not actually replying to you.
I'm not on board with the slaps, but you can find a longer discussion of Gaby's overall behavior under the thread about how she saves the world. I do not think she has a mean streak but has had to fight every bit as much as Illya. She was abandoned, deliberately or not, after her father fled to the West. We know nothing about her mother - except that she was Uncle Rudy's sister.
Most importantly, she was recruited by Waverly months before Napoleon forces her hand, so she is under real duress. Her life is in danger, she sees the two men currently in control of her not exactly working together, and she knows she is going to have to betray either her small remaining family or new handlers in the near future. Every aspect of her life is beyond her own control, down to the very clothes she has been forced into, so I see her behavior with Illya as an attempt to release all that pressure as well as to regain at least a few moments of her own autonomy.
Also, even as she literally fights being attracted to him (because she may have to betray him), she must have had some instinct that he was "safe" for her to attack, as his own instincts turn out to be protective of her.
If he could overpower Napoleon, he could have overpowered her in an instant had he wanted to.
Yeah, I read that discussion, but I wasn't very convinced on the potential explanations for the slaps. I understand all the rest (abandoned by her father, being recruted by Waverly and having to wait roughly two years before being able to do something, having to convince two professional spies of her "innocence" and so on) but I still think the scene shouldn't have been made like that. It sends the wrong message imo.
shareNot sure what the "message" is. Clearly the slaps coupled with the faux apologies were intended to provoke and got exactly the response she wanted.
Also, in the era where this was set - and the characters are products of their era - men were not supposed to hit women but a woman slapping a man was seen all the time in television shows. It was basically the standard response to a man making an unwanted pass, for example.
Get real! If this movie were actually made in 1963 instead of politically correct 2015, he would smacked her back after the second slap.
There are plenty Bond movies in the era where Bond smacked a female character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWfObq2cFk
peggygeordie wrote:
Not sure what the "message" is. Clearly the slaps coupled with the faux apologies were intended to provoke and got exactly the response she wanted.
Also, in the era where this was set - and the characters are products of their era - men were not supposed to hit women but a woman slapping a man was seen all the time in television shows. It was basically the standard response to a man making an unwanted pass, for example.
[deleted]
It was two playful taps, not intended to hurt him. He looked surprised rather than traumatised. I think Gaby was trying to provoke a reaction and she got one. He said, with a wry smile, that he'd put her over his knee. Gaby actually lightened his sombre, chess-playing mood and, I think, brought of him out of his sadness. Suddenly, when she was "wrestling" with him, he began to melt and put his arms around her. I saw his disappointment when she passed out. He was too much of a gentleman to take advantage, rather calling her "little chop shop girl" in a very fond tone of voice.
shareIt's true she couldn't get him to react before - be it from offering him a drink or the music and dancing. If it's what was in the mind of the screenplay writer or of Guy Ritchie, I can understand why it happened.
shareI think Gaby was trying to provoke a reaction and she got one.Yes, I think this is probably the best explanation. I did find the slaps a tad mean, but agree that they were obviously more provocation than actual attack and hugely influenced by her being drunk.
I think Gaby was testing Illya. Earlier that day she saw a mugger hit Illya twice, like Gaby later, and Illya wrestling his overpowering desire to violence (yes, he hit the mugger, but didn't kill him, even tho he wanted to), and that was only to keep their cover. So I think she was testing if Illya would hurt her when provoked. But he didn't. He didn't fight back even when Gabby jumps him, probably so he wouldn't hurt her even by accident. That was the moment when Gaby realized that she's safe with Illya.
shareI hadn't thought of that, but it works. Better to find out if he can control his anger in a hotel room than in the field with her life at stake. Basically, I think there are a LOT of complicated motivations (and pent up emotions) at play which is why the scene stands up to multiple viewings, as does the playing out of their relationship.
shareOh - I hadn't thought of it that way - thanks for sharing! That makes a lot of sense.
shareThe problem I have with that explanation is that it makes gaby really stupid. Illya is a foot taller than her, likely has almost 100 pounds on her and is a champion in Russian Sambo and accomplished Judoka. Just because he didn't hurt her earlier in the evening when she wasn't the aggressor, rather just trying to hold him back, doesn't mean that if she wasn't really freaking stupid enough to provoke him when her backup in form of Waverly was several floors away and she likely had no way to contact him (likely didn't have the room bugged or he would possibly have tried to intervene given the racket coming from the room), and Solo was a floor away busily having sex, that she couldn't have been killed.
It was really freaking stupid and I hated that scene. I get that she's a little drunk, fine, but she wasn't drunk when she started her plan to provoke the crap out of him. She'd had a about two fingers of vodka. It was mean, it was stupid and it was pointless. He never actively fought back, he just stopped her from keeping trying to fight him. If he'd wanted he could have killed her easily. Yes, she lucked out, he didn't lose it, but she had no way of knowing that.
The film is a light-hearted comedic adventure, not gritty realism. I think you're possibly taking it and the scene way too seriously.
shareExcept for the fact she passes out and doesn't remember the night before contradicting your reasonable theory, and if that is what the film was aiming for then the film should've made it more clear.
"I do think it's funny that Napoleon lost his physical fight with Illya, and Gaby won herself."
You haven't watched a film in the last 40 years have you.
What happened is standard fare these days.
Not funny just typical forced female empowerment nonsense where the man has to look bad so the woman can look good
It can be a fine line between being a little rough in a sexually playful way and just being rough in an annoying or inappropriate way, but I think this skews successfully towards it being funny because she's so delicate and he's a very tall, strong guy. She's not legitimately a physical threat to him, BUT she is a smart and capable woman that he's kind of ordering around, so maybe she's trying to teach him not to underestimate her in the future. She's tiny, but not meek. Kind of like Napoleon's and Illya's tussle/show of dominance when they meet in the bathroom.
On top of that, she's also drunk and flirting (drink with me, dance with me), prodding him to loosen up. Maybe it would have played as cute or sexy to more people if she'd smacked him on the butt instead of across the face? As a woman I've been slapped on the butt by men who seemed to feel perfectly entitled to do that as a method of flirting, whether I liked it or not...
[deleted]
I think you're absolutely right when you say it's Gaby prodding the Russian Giant Iceberg to melt - sorry about the metaphor there! - or, as you say, loosen up. They're never going to be a convincing engaged couple unless he does, although I don't think she's doing it because she needs to for their cover.
So she is disarming him (ha - I wonder if that pun crossed their minds) - but it should be noted that she uses his own hands against him, so using his hands to slap his own backside would have been much more difficult, I would have thought.
She's not legitimately a physical threat to him, BUT she is a smart and capable woman that he's kind of ordering around, so maybe she's trying to teach him not to underestimate her in the future. She's tiny, but not meek.
[deleted]
in russia there is a say - if hits you... loves you; and c'mon the action takes in 60's the word abusive probably not even in vocabulary :)
I agree about not hitting but it was a 60's cliché as you've noted. Plus, because of the size difference she knew he would not do anything; he knew he could not do anything.
That aside, they are stuck together as an engaged couple. He is in his own world and ignoring her. The loud music with her little dance was adorable. It was my favorite scene, culminating in her hand holding on to his as he left her in bed.
She changed the way he thought of her and treated her. Next day he said, "I enjoyed last night."
[deleted]
So where is the scene where he teaches her not to be such a *beep* to him.
Tired of this one sided one gender must learn a lesson but the other one usually the female continues to act like a bitch and never needs to learn a lesson she desperately needs to learn.
Hmph ! Very uncomfortable scene.
I think what they wanted to accomplish here (but partly failed to do) is show 3 things :
1. Gaby can't hold her liquor. I think she is supposed to be drunk... after a bit of alcool.She seems annoyed with the whole scene the morning after. Doesn't appologize, mind you.
2. Gaby is a strong woman and she is attracted to Illya in spite of herself. Now that she is drunk, she makes (hostile) advances at him.
That was awkwardky done. Hiting someon who hasn't done anything to you, no matter the gender of agressor and vicitm, is not cool and certainly not pleasant to watch.
I also fail to see how being a nuisance and abusing her partner makes her strong. But, yeah, you could feel it was what they were aiming for.
3. Illya has a kind and soft heart despite being first introduced as a attack dog for the KGB. He doesn't retaliate because Gaby is a woman, a lot smaller and under the influence of alcool. It works.
He also has a lot of self control and respect. Indeed, in this scene, I think he is supposed to be smitten with Miss Teller sensual (?!?) dance, but doesn't act on it.
The problem I have with that, is that her dance doesn't come off as sexy at all. I rather got the vide of a young petulant child in need of attention and being a nuisance. Very uncomfrotable. Glad the tall man doesn't act on it.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Its not about being mean, abusive or drunk.
She was an undercover agent too, and she had to see in complete impotence how this guy refused to follow orders to let the guys rob him and just in general being so uptight and miserable about everything, it might have been just a little bit of a relief to have a reaction on the guy when she slapped him, even if it was anger. Or maybe she was just pushing him to see what was his limit.
Still I dont see any intention of abuse, the guy was a bit of a jerk and a control freak, I would have slapped him too.
Dont be such drama queens and make everything serious, that scene is there to make people laugh, thats all.
He might've been a bit of a jerk but she was full on *beep* and deserved more than a slap from him but didn't get it because it's sexist to put a woman in her place by hitting her but empowering for a woman to do the same for a man making this scene and get character, the token tough smart and far more capable than all the men around her obligatory female all the more detrimental to the film.
Her character want needed at all.
It was a chick movie. I just rented it yesterday. Turned it off the first time around half way. Then came back later and watched the whole thing.
shareI also thought this is a light-hearted comedic adventure and the smack wasn't a heavy smack around.
The song she danced to was the same song in Dirty Dancing where Baby came to Johnny's room, asked him to dance with her, then then told him she loved him.
Gaby dancing-alone-part scene is my favorite of the movie, she is so cute and lovely in those pajamas. The almost kiss in that scene reminded me of Rick and Evelyn characters in The Mummy's scene "You are wondering what a place like me is doing in a girl like this".
What? A "chick movie"? They don't even have any confirmed romance, just a hinted at mutual attraction. It's a spy movie with a background of possible romance. That's nothing even close to a "chick flick" regardless of how attractive the leads are.
shareChick move as in piss of the man and hit him.
Also chick flicks do have women hitting men all the time.
It's how you show a strog woman to those with weak minds that don't see how much of a dick any one like that is.