MovieChat Forums > Downton Abbey (2011) Discussion > Were we supposed to like Sarah Bunting?

Were we supposed to like Sarah Bunting?


I am genuinely curious. I've gotten past the point where she (thankfully) takes a hike and my family breathed a collective sigh of relief. We couldn't stand her. What's funny is she was more of an arrogant snob than the people she claimed were. The "Do you even know her name?" line killed me. Seriously, you get invited to a palace by the good graces of the owners, get waited on hand and foot and given a meal you'd never be able to afford otherwise and you smart off to the lord of the place? Just shut your face and enjoy the meal, you pathetic little shrew.



He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

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I did NOT find her likeable. Although she had a few good moments (speaking to Rose at the school, tutoring Daisy), the dinner scenes were too extreme. She wasn't debating her points, but sledgehammering them.

To me she was just a platform for Tom's "Will I? Won't I" tap dance about leaving Downton and moving on with his life.

The Crawleys had a fairly poor year with dinner guests in Season 5!!! Sarah Bunting, Simon Bricker, Larry & Tim Grey.

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No, I don't think we're supposed to like her at all.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it- Aristotle

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JF is conservative, anyone who is not conservative in the series is portrayed as a stupid and rude, Tom "evolution" was too see how kind and fair was someone like Lord Grantham and how stupid was him by being a socialist, now Tom was in the eunuch who wave his tail to anything that Mary and Robert say. In the beggining something similar with Isobel.

Basically all the points that Bunting made in the dinner were correct, even the russian refugees treated very badly to Atticus for being jew and for some reason they had a revolution in their country it wasnt a free thing. The only thing that she was idiotic in her way was about the memorial, but in fact, the memorial was more about Robert being president of the comission than honoring the men of the village who died.

Also Daisy was portrayed as a idiotic for simply reflect the thought of the vast majority of the servants in that time, we must consider that one or two dresses of Mary, Edith or Cora is easily the year salary of someone like Daisy and those laidies would have at least 10 or 15 per year; but to reduce costs the Crawleys decided to fire Thomas not to have more simply clothes, or in the begining of the season 6 we can see Robert and Mary hunting, ludicrous. A woman like Daisy would wwork from 6 am to 22, maybe with some time to eat and the sunday morning to go to church and nothing more, and yet we must believe that the servants were happy with that kind of life.

The series indeed portraits the Crawleys as a caring aristocratic family when in fact Mary could only know the name of someone like Anna and damm the rest, the same for the rest of the family. Maybe Cora could know the name of more servants because it was her job go and gave them orders in orden how the house would function. But seeing Cora giving her coat to Mrs Hughes or Mary allowing that her child, the heir to earloom share the nursery with the son of her made its imposible.

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JF is conservative, anyone who is not conservative in the series is portrayed as a stupid and rude


Oh my god, yes! That's why you need a writing staff, so your own biases don't bog down a story. A modern, working, educated, politically aware woman could have been fascinated and complex, but instead she's a rude bitch that no one could like. Same with Tom, we should have seen more struggle with his revolutionary ideas and now being an earl's son in law. But instead it's like he forgot. Great opportunities with him that went no where.

And Daisy should have been interesting to see her develop, from a naive girl with no worldly experience that slowly learned about things and saw class inequality and slowly moved from "ignorance is bliss" to "is this system fair? Should I stay a part of it? Can I strive for more when I didn't know I could before?" But instead she's a know it all whiner.

he series indeed portraits the Crawleys as a caring aristocratic family when in fact Mary could only know the name of someone like Anna and damm the rest, the same for the rest of the family.


Yeah, when Mary recognized Gwen, a housemaid from like ten years earlier, I thought "yeah sure you would." It's like JF loved the Crawleys so much he wasn't willing to portray the family at all realistically for the time period lest it not look loving and supporting to modern eyes. Cora got a little snappy when Mrs. Hughes was going into her room because Mary said she should, but other than that, it's like everyone is BFF with the servants.

I know I was repeating a lot of what you said, but it's just frustrating to me a show that had so many promising ideas either get dropped or dragged out insanely or wrapped up super conveniently instead of at a natural conclusion. It could have been SO much better.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

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What I could never quite understand is how so many fans were overjoyed that Tom gave up all of his beliefs and ideals to become just another posh twit. And the fans who salivated at the prospect that he might marry another "lady." The whole point of the Sybil character was that she was rebelling against everything that being a "lady" meant. She was supposedly on her way to being more like Tom and instead we get Tom turned into the very thing he despised. He was totally emasculated by the end of the series. I don't get it.

Bunting was made to be as obnoxious as possible solely to make her views suspect and to make the Crawley's outdated way of life something noble. Yech.

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And all of the true villains are from the working class: Green, Thomas, O'Brien. None of the aristocrats are really reprehensible except for Sir Richard, and he was an arriviste. And Sampson - but he didn't have a title.

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And all of the true villains are from the working class: Green, Thomas, O'Brien. None of the aristocrats are really reprehensible except for Sir Richard, and he was an arriviste. And Sampson - but he didn't have a title.


I think Fellowes had a deep love for the upper class and couldn't bear to right one in a negative light. Even the Crawleys are overly familiar and friendly with the staff as if he didn't want to make them look unkind even if it would have been the norm.

The only upper class villain I'd come close to naming was Rose's mother, but she was really more rude and tried to sabotage the wedding, but was pretty much a minor character who didn't do any real harm.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

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Pamuk was pretty awful.

http://currentscene.wordpress.com

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[deleted]

to reiterate a censored opinion: Panuk was not an Englishman, so his behavior was not held to the same standards

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Of course some troll reported my non offensive post, but Pamuk was a foreigner, and I think it's mostly an English nobility love that's going on.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

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all the main villains of the series had working class originis, Bate´s wife, Edna, Thomas, O´brien, Mrs Bevan (the woman who tried to blackmail Mary, oh what a coincidence, she had the same surname of Aneurin Bevan, the labour politician who created the NHS and who was a nightmare for the tories), Daisy, Sarah Bunting.

I think that JF´s love for the aristocracy and Mary in particular, were in the end one of the worst enemies of the series, also if we noticed its pretty clear that the "perfect" servants were Anna and Bates, basically, both of them were the most servile among their fellows workers.

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"Daisy"

I don't think Daisy was ever a villain but her character development fits with the main point. She was more likeable when she knew her place. When she started to question it, she became obnoxious (though I still had a soft spot for her).

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[deleted]

There is a cut line in wich Daisy said something that she hoped that Lady Mary could come downstairs to show her hair cut to the servants....ludicrous.

The thing is that JF was so in love of the aristocracy and Lady Mary in particular that he made those lines totally inaccurate to those times, the working class from wich Daisy is, no longer looked up to the landred gentry as cultural and fashion icons. The working and middle classes looked to the celebrities, actresses, actors and peope like such because they saw them as model of meritocracy, in season 2, Ethel, the servant who got pregnant is seeing a magazine about an actresses whose father was a carpenter or something like that and she said that she would like to be like her.

The massification of cinemas, radios, magazines produced that the majority of the people would start following and imitating the film stars like Pola Negri, Chaplin, Valentino and ovbiously their fashion. In the roaring twentys of the post war england nobody would care less about what type of haircut would have some earl daughter in north of yorkshire. For that reason, equaly stupid was the "blackmail attemp", maybe some tabloid would have buyed but for a very low price, and the story would be in secondary pages, because in that time people simply didnt care about landred gentry. To that point the people would look with interest the royal family, and some members of the very few grand aristocrats who existed (like the dukes of devonshire, westminters and other of such level, who are far above the Crawleys).

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You must have missed my point. I wasn't agreeing with it. I was saying that Daisy was written to be less likeable when she started questioning her place in the world

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She was more likeable when she knew her place. When she started to question it, she became obnoxious

From an old post-- the best Marples are the Joan Hickson Marples, and the best of those was Murder at the Vicarage. It had a scene in which the Clements' cook and maid is questioned by a detective, who makes insinuations about her relationship with the local poacher. She forthrightly demands that he make any accusations outright, denies them, and tells him off for his rudeness. Afterwards the impressed Rev. Clements tells his wife that it's no wonder we're a free people.
The less Daisy, or any of them, knew her place, the better I liked her.

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all the main villains of the series had working class originis

That is hardly true at all.

Thomas, O´brien

Were they even villains?

Mrs Bevan (the woman who tried to blackmail Mary)

I wonder if Miss Bevan and Miss Bunting had seen less nice aristocrats mistreat their servants?
That would explain their hatred against that social class.



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[deleted]

Ah, Rose's mother.
I happen to find her more interesting and sympathetic than Julian Fellowes probably intended.

It is clear to me that Susan was deeply unhappy and nobody even tried to help her.
But everybody just loathed her without realizing that she probably had a mental health issue.

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Larry Gray (and his fiancee and later wife)were both nasty pieces of work.

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Dude, this is really exactly what Sarah Bunting did and got a lot of hatred for.
You simply can't let go off a rant, which will not make you look good at all.

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Daisy Lewis wanted to leave/wouldn't commit to a three year contract, and so she was written out. Before that she was meant to provide a potential love interest for Tom; she was a little spiky but attractive, and a challenge to his loyalty to the Crawleys. To write her out, JF just amped up the spikiness, made her rude, and put in a wedge between her and the Big House.
If she'd stayed, she'd ironically be playing Tom to Tom's Sybil from the first two seasons, challenging his assumed upper class complacency. That was also the thing that many viewers disliked about the new, tame Tom; I wonder if there was any crossover with Bunting-haters--or whether that was because she threatened the most destined match of all television: Tom and Mary.
And had she stayed, she'd probably have mellowed out to her very obvious model in South Riding, Sarah Burton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQlhsoPZMmo

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How/why would she have committed to a 3 year contract when the show was ending and everyone knew the show was ending after season 6? Didn't she only appear in season 5?

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She appeared in Ep 7 & 8 of Season 4: http://downtonabbey.wikia.com/wiki/Sarah_Bunting

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I don't think it was decided that DA would end until 2014 so there could have been contract issues before then.

BritGirl
"Don't change so people will like you. Be yourself and the right people will love you."

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One thing I will always find curious is when, before leaving, she tells Tom 'I loved you, you know'. Ah sorry? You were rude to his family, you berated him for adapting to his new life, you never gave any indication that you had affection for any one or any thing, least of all Tom and he was supposed figure out you loved him? And now he's the baddie?

What an arrogant...

If you dip your foot into a pool of piranhas don't cry when you lose a toe!😞🐟

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I think she was just a plot device to get Tom to realise how much he had changed and been integrated into the Crawley clan.

BritGirl
"Don't change so people will like you. Be yourself and the right people will love you."

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I do think Miss Bunting was a plot device. I think she was supposed to remind Tom of his convictions with also letting him realize how much he has grown to love the Crawleys. Miss Bunting was much like Tom used to be, because he was also sometimes strident and annoying. But she makes Tom realize how much he has grown to love the Crawleys. He's now seen life from both sides of the class divide. He now realizes that the rich aren't the enemy, and that the world is changing for them as well. I think Tom sees that changes need to be made, and that working with the aristocracy can help make things better for the rest. Tom was helping to get decent housing built for the lower classes. Going into business at the end with Henry would have potential to create jobs for the community.

Tom wasn't neutered, but rather evolved. He no longer thought that conflict was the way to force change, but that working together was the way to create change.

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Tom didn't change. He compromised!

If you dip your foot into a pool of piranhas don't cry when you lose a toe!😞🐟

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I was amazed that Sara kept appearing, when she had been so abrasive previously. When the Earl finally kicked her ass out during dinner, it was high time. I'd say Sara needs a sound spanking ;)

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I can't stand Miss Bunting. She's superficial(despite her illusions of enlightenment) and smug. I'm only half way through season 5 but I'm glad to see that she's been written out of the show at some point.

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[deleted]

Of course the reason people dislike her is because she is poor. People hate the poor its how it was, is and always will be. And nobody gets more hate than a woman who is poor.


Going to assume this is a troll post because you can't possibly be serious. No one likes her because she's poor? LOLOLOLOLOLOL. No, none of us--or the characters on the show--can/could stand her because she was an arrogant, rude, ungrateful twit. Could care less how much money she had.



He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

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I don't think Feogild is a troll but I agree that was a very dumb statement. Half the cast was poor. The Crawleys may have looked down on her, but there's never any indication at any time they hate poor women. What a weird thing to reach for to make a blanket statement.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

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[deleted]

It's a old meme, summarized by the comic history 1066 And All That as Wrong But Wromantic vs. Right But Repulsive.
Bunting is abrasive but her social morality is sound; she faces those children that Molesley faced in the classroom and wants every one of them to rise as far as their talents allow.
Robert is much more likable personally, but the whole modern age puts him at ill-ease, and he wouldn't want those children to get ideas above their station. He instinctively dismisses Tom as a choice for his daughter, and reflexively assumes that anyone with a title would be a perfect fit. He never really takes Gregson seriously, and he's twice the man that any of Mary's suitors were. Bertie the agent is barely better than Edith's everlasting spinsterhood; when he becomes a Marquis Robert is practically doing cartwheels.

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Now, you have to remember that Robert was born in the 1860s and is an earl.
It is hardly strange that he would feel as he does about certain issues.
However, I don't believe that he minds if working class children get an education.
As long as he gets to live his life as the lord of a mansion.
Really, some people think that he's too nice for being an aristocrat from that time period.
So it's funny that you would think the exact opposite.

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Bunting is too tedious to endure during my rewatches, so I always FF through her scenes. So I agree with you that the character is unlikable.

But I have to disagree with your last two sentences. You’re saying Bunting should feel lucky and grateful for the *privilege* of dining with the Crawleys in their obscenely opulent mansion. But the Crawleys aren’t any “better” than people like Bunting, or their own downstairs staff.

Bunting should have been polite. She accepted an invitation and owed her hosts good manners, regardless of what type of lifestyle they had in whatever home they lived in.

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But I don't believe that anybody said that the Crawleys were "better" than Sarah Bunting.
Only that rudeness has no place at a dinner party, no matter who your hosts are.

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That was the implication in the OP, with words and phrases like:

Palace
Good graces
Meal you’d never be able to afford otherwise
Lord of the palace
etc.

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Well, all of these things were true.
It is really Miss Bunting's rudeness and reluctance to let go off a rant, that is the problem though.

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And that was my point. 🙂

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Rewatching the series, and I thought that she was totally out of bounds. I'm having Thanksgiving dinner with my 90 y/o father's neighbors who have helped him immensely and since I'm visiting I'm invited too. Their household is absolutely opposite from me politically, but I would never dream of starting up with them politically over dinner. I really couldn't stand Sarah Bunting for constantly creating friction when she was inside their home. So rude and out of order. I was glad Tom let her go.

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