MovieChat Forums > Maleficent (2014) Discussion > My Review: This is NOT Maleficent

My Review: This is NOT Maleficent


I'm not going to lie. I was genuinely excited to hear that Disney was going to make a film about Maleficent, my favorite Disney villain of all time. I was interested in knowing the 'why' behind her actions in Sleeping Beauty, since we never really got to see that. When Angelina Jolie was cast and talked about Maleficent being a great person but far from perfect, my feelings of excitement wavered a little. They wavered more when I saw that the fairies' names were changed. Then the script was leaked online, and it was then that I realized it was going to be an atrocity that would butcher Walt Disney's crowning achievement while he was alive.

Several users went out of their way to prove the script fake on the IMDb forums, and my hopes were somewhat restored. But the teaser came out and showed remarkable similarity to the leaked script. Those same users tried to show that it was still different, and that Maleficent will still be evil (even though she wasn't!). With each trailer that came out, I saw similarity after similarity to the leaked script, to the point where the users were now saying, "Oh, it's a new take on Maleficent, just see the movie before you judge it, and appreciate it for what it is!" Well guess what? I DID see the movie. And it is hardly different from what we read.

I will say that the movie is beautiful to look at; the cinematography is amazing. Disney spent a lot of money trying to make this movie look good. I will also say that while Angelina Jolie was not my first choice, she had the look, her costume was spot-on, and there are moments where you can see where she is at least trying to play this role correctly (and really, who could replace Eleanor Audley?). But one thing I've noticed over the past 10-15 years is that animation and design seem to be their main focus, rather than story or character development. In the leaked script, there was more development in the first half before we get to Sleeping Beauty's story. It was lame, pathetic development but still development. In the movie, all that development was cut and Maleficent's backstory was rushed as a result. So much for going into depth on why Maleficent is the way she is.

Which brings me to my next point; this movie does not explain why Maleficent is the way she is. It doesn't even try to make us feel sorry for her. This movie is trying to give us a completely different character while giving her the same name as Disney's most iconic villain. Disney is now trying to say that Maleficent is a misunderstood character who becomes evil. But that never happens. She becomes angry and bitter, but not evil. And they give us the same tired cliché of how a villainous is spurned or betrayed by a lover, and doesn't do it in a way we've never seen before. In short, Maleficent in this movie is not even a misunderstood, sympathetic character. She is a total victim who never becomes evil at all.

Oh, she does do one evil thing; she does still curse King Stefan's baby out of revenge. And she has second thoughts about it two seconds afterward. See? Not evil at all. And while I'm at it, I should mention my distaste for the way she cursed Aurora (who I'll get to in a minute): Disney completely lowered the stakes by having Maleficent utter the words "sleep-like death" and be the one to offer the cure of True Love's kiss. No! It's MERRYWEATHER (yes, in my book she's still Merryweather) that counters the DEATH curse in order to save Aurora's life! Oh, Maleficent may say later that she doesn't believe True Love exists, but that's a matter of opinion isn't it? Again, LOWERS THE STAKES.

And what was Linda Woolverton thinking when she took King Stefan and the three fairies completely out of character and gives them a complete 180 in order to make Maleficent look good? If you're going to make a well- known villain a backstory and show us their point of view, it's okay to give them layers and grey areas in order to make them more interesting and multi-dimensional, even to show they weren't always evil. But NOT to say they were never evil at all; that just completely defeats the point of the character! Same with the good guys; they may have their own flaws, show that they have their own prejudices, or that everything they did wasn't perfect. But NOT to say "the good guys were really EVIL OR STUPID!"

The fairies, Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather (I refuse to call them by their new names) are NOTHING like they were in Sleeping Beauty, and this is a big deal. In Sleeping Beauty, say what you will about their flaws but their ultimate motivation was keeping Aurora SAFE. At least they tried, even if they failed! Maleficent (2014) portrays them as nothing more than stupid buffoons who only care about saving their own skins. Aurora was just a means to an end for them; they have no relationship with her like they do in the original. The movie also took away their own individualities, so they are no different from each other. I can't even keep track of which fairy has which name! Watching them on screen with everything they say or do was as cringeworthy as I expected it to be.

On the other hand, King Stefan has to be one of worst written villains I have seen in a while. He has no real motivation for what he does; we see him as having nothing in the beginning, and then the movie glosses over his relationship with Maleficent in order to "get to the good part" where he steals her wings in order to be king. After that, he wages war on Maleficent for cursing his daughter, and yet he only looks at Aurora as afterthought property. Why is he even after Maleficent then? What else has she done to him other than cursing his daughter? Not to mention that Sharlto Copley showed only two emotions during the time he was on screen; anger and indifference. Hardly his fault, since the script didn't give him much to work with.

Elle Fanning as Aurora was very impressive. I do think she gave the character more of a personality that was lacking in the original, and she stole the film in every scene she was in. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to save the movie, nor were Maleficent's interactions with Diaval, as enjoyable as they were.

And of course, Maleficent does not turn into a dragon in this movie. I have to ask; why, Disney? Why? You knew how loved of a villain Maleficent is, and her being a dragon is one of the many reasons why. Also, we live in an age where technology and special effects are abundant; you didn't use the opportunity to see how your most iconic villain looks as a dragon when done with live-action CGI? Why would you waste a perfectly good opportunity like that? And...leather pants? You had Maleficent wear leather pants in the battle scene? She practically reminded me of CatWoman! That brings me to another point actually; besides the fact that Maleficent is not evil in this film, she also is very wimpy and pathetic. She can't do ANYTHING. When we see her fight an army at the beginning, all she does is fly around and slap a few soldiers with her wings. The tree monsters did most of her fighting for her. In Sleeping Beauty, she could transport herself to another place in a matter of seconds, she could shoot lightning from her staff, and she could transform into another form other than her own. She didn't do any of that in this movie.

I really wanted to like this movie. But just like with Alice in Wonderland, Disney wasted a perfectly good opportunity to effectively adapt their animated work to the live-action screen. Say what you will about Oz: The Great and Powerful, but at least that movie didn't alter characters or change the story of The Wizard of Oz completely. Since L. Frank Baum didn't write a book about the Wizard himself, Oz doesn't even get many things outright wrong. Plus, there's a lot of room at the end for interpretation. This is not the case for Maleficent. In fact, Maleficent can't get even some minor details right, such as Prince Philip's father's name or the fact that Fauna gave her the gift of song before Maleficent came in.

Maleficent may not be the absolute worst movie I've seen, but it's definitely in my bottom list now. 1/10

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Boy, you really hate this movie, huh? Though I enjoyed it as a completely separate film, which I consider unrelated to the 1959 film, I can see where you're coming from. When this film was announced in 2010, I thought "Finally a movie about my all time favorite villain". Well, it wasn't about Maleficent at all, it was about a nice fairy with horns. All in all, a very enjoyable little film, but it's certainly not the Maleficent that we all know and love.

Oh, and I was also extremely pissed about the leather pants, I mean... what the hell was that?!

I said it before and I'll say it again: if they want to make a movie about the actual Mistress of all Evil, it should be closer to a horror film, and not a Disney film for all audiences. Disney however owns the rights to the character and they will never allow something like that to happen.

I really felt quite distressed at not receiving an invitation - Maleficent

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Boy, you really hate this movie, huh?


That's the understatement of the year.

Though I enjoyed it as a completely separate film, which I consider unrelated to the 1959 film, I can see where you're coming from.


Thanks. When it comes to things like this, I don't tend to enjoy them as separate when one story is written extremely well and showcases a certain character to the point where he/she is iconic in some way, and then another story comes along and ruins that image. I just say my piece on the latter, rant about it for some time, lament on what the latter could have been, then push it from my mind when things die down, and turn my attention back to the former and enjoy it like I used to. I don't think too many people would be happy to see someone like say, Harry Potter becoming evil. But to each their own on that.

When this film was announced in 2010, I thought "Finally a movie about my all time favorite villain".


Same here, dude.

Well, it wasn't about Maleficent at all, it was about a nice fairy with horns. All in all, a very enjoyable little film, but it's certainly not the Maleficent that we all know and love.


You know what's funny? You probably already know this, but they apparently weren't aware that maleficent is an actual word, and it means evil-doer. So we have that nice little fairy flying around in the beginning and everyone is calling her "evil-doer."

DITTO on that spoilers part...I mean, Maleficent and...that...just don't freakin' mix! I can't get that image out of my head, it sucks! Unfortunately, that's the least of the film's problems.

I said it before and I'll say it again: if they want to make a movie about the actual Mistress of all Evil, it should be closer to a horror film, and not a Disney film for all audiences. Disney however owns the rights to the character and they will never allow something like that to happen.


You're certainly right about Disney never allowing a horror film to be made in their studio. But I don't think Maleficent's story even needs to take place in a horror movie. It can certainly be very scary, and it can have an ending where she still dies, but it doesn't need to be a horror film. I believe it can still be rated PG, it would just be more mature than this movie. And if it has to have Sleeping Beauty's plot (I'm not sure Maleficent even needed to touch on it), it can just do so very briefly instead of taking up 80% of the movie. And I can see a possibility of her even surviving the fight with Philip, but just barely. She could still come back; I always wanted to see what happened after Sleeping Beauty anyway.

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You know what's funny? You probably already know this, but they apparently weren't aware that maleficent is an actual word, and it means evil-doer. So we have that nice little fairy flying around in the beginning and everyone is calling her "evil-doer."


I am aware and it's one of the many reasons why I think Linda Woolverton is a lazy writer. Last year, I started a thread saying that Maleficent's REAL birth name should be revealed in this film, because I thought "There's no way she's actually called Maleficent, especially if she's not actually evil from the start", but noooo. We get a sweet young fairy called MALEFICENT, even though she's far from evil. It would have made more sense if she gets her infamous name during her adult years.

DITTO on that spoilers part...I mean, Maleficent and...that...just don't freakin' mix! I can't get that image out of my head, it sucks! Unfortunately, that's the least of the film's problems.


That was absolutely out of place. I didn't mind the other outfits and I could make my peaces with the fact that we never see her wearing a black and purple gown, but the pants were just too much to take.


But I don't think Maleficent's story even needs to take place in a horror movie. It can certainly be very scary, and it can have an ending where she still dies, but it doesn't need to be a horror film. I believe it can still be rated PG, it would just be more mature than this movie. And if it has to have Sleeping Beauty's plot (I'm not sure Maleficent even needed to touch on it), it can just do so very briefly instead of taking up 80% of the movie


Oh, I know, it doesn't have to be a horror movie to be dark, but I'm just dreaming out loud here. I could totally imagine Maleficent's castle filled with gruesome imagery and all. Though it seems like most people despise it with passion, I think "Snow White and the Huntsman" succeeded in showing us a dark villain without redemption, who is also the main character, in my humble opinion. I think Ravenna is more of a main character than Snow White in this version. She does all the horrible things the Evil Queen is supposed to do (even more than I expected) and she never redeems herself. A film with a similar tone would be perfect for Maleficent. No humor, no redemption, no cuteness whatsoever, just an evil bitch who may have her backstory, but she's still evil to the core!


I really felt quite distressed at not receiving an invitation - Maleficent

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I could make my peaces with the fact that we never see her wearing a black and purple gown


I...thought she wore the gown from Sleeping Beauty, it was just all black. I forgot it was supposed to have purple in it too.

Though it seems like most people despise it with passion, I think "Snow White and the Huntsman" succeeded in showing us a dark villain without redemption, who is also the main character, in my humble opinion. I think Ravenna is more of a main character than Snow White in this version. She does all the horrible things the Evil Queen is supposed to do (even more than I expected) and she never redeems herself. A film with a similar tone would be perfect for Maleficent. No humor, no redemption, no cuteness whatsoever, just an evil bitch who may have her backstory, but she's still evil to the core!


I saw Snow White and the Huntsman once, and it bored me. But I may watch it again for Ravenna, because from what you describe she sounds fascinating. I definitely remember her being a messed up character, that's for sure!

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You know what's funny? You probably already know this, but they apparently weren't aware that maleficent is an actual word, and it means evil-doer. So we have that nice little fairy flying around in the beginning and everyone is calling her "evil-doer."


I have a theory that Disney was trying to do their own Wicked, since Universal owns the rights, and wanted a title to reflect that -- "wicked" and "maleficent" mean the same thing. However, they failed miserably on all accounts.

For one, the Wicked Witch of the West has a birth name ("Elphaba," taken from the phonetic pronunciation of L. Frank Baum's initials) and only later does she earn her appellation. But Maleficent is named that from the start even though she's more "beneficent" than anything.

Secondly, Wicked succeeds in telling the Wicked Witch's backstory, because everything that happened in The Wizard of Oz still happens in Wicked albeit from the Witch's perspective. On the other hand, Maleficent completely retcons Sleeping Beauty.

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everything that happened in The Wizard of Oz still happens in Wicked


OMG did you actually see the ending of Wicked? It totally retcons TWOZ.

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I have a theory that Disney was trying to do their own Wicked, since Universal owns the rights, and wanted a title to reflect that -- "wicked" and "maleficent" mean the same thing. However, they failed miserably on all accounts.


I completely agree that they failed. What they could have done is name her Carabosse, and then when she turns evil, she calls herself Maleficent. Think about it; Carabosse was the evil fairy's name in Tchaikovsky's ballet, which Disney got many of its music from for their soundtrack in their version of the story, and the princess is named Aurora in the ballet too.

For one, the Wicked Witch of the West has a birth name ("Elphaba," taken from the phonetic pronunciation of L. Frank Baum's initials) and only later does she earn her appellation. But Maleficent is named that from the start even though she's more "beneficent" than anything.


I...did not know that's how they got the name Elphaba. That's very interesting. This is why I wish a different, better writer for this movie had been hired; not only to do the character justice and give us a satisfying backstory, but also because it doesn't take rocket science to figure out if Maleficent has a meaning, and what it means. All it takes is two seconds to look it up on Google. Milo-Jeeder was absolutely right in saying that Linda Woolverton is a lazy writer.

Secondly, Wicked succeeds in telling the Wicked Witch's backstory, because everything that happened in The Wizard of Oz still happens in Wicked albeit from the Witch's perspective. On the other hand, Maleficent completely retcons Sleeping Beauty.


Are you talking about the musical or the book Wicked? I asked Housefan2 the same question and she still hasn't gotten back to me. I ask because I've seen parts of the musical and know the story a little bit, and I believe it does retcon The Wizard of Oz. I've heard the book is at least deeper and more complicated, and that the author, Gregory Maguire, went out of his way to say that his work was not canon to The Wizard of Oz.

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Wicked spoilers
in the musical she fakes her death from the bucket of water and immediately leaves Oz with her lover the scarecrow in secret. then it's referenced the wizard gave out the hearts and brains but how could the scarecrow have gotten a brain in Em City when he left Oz with Elphaba? also the tinman leads the witchhunters with Dorothy and the lion to Elphaba's castle to kill her

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I knew that part about the Scarecrow. Maybe he left with her after he got his brain?

One thing I want to point out about the Tin Man is that in the book, he tells Dorothy and the Scarecrow a story about how he fell in love with a Munchkin servant maid, and how her boss prevented him from marrying her by contacting the Wicked Witch of the East and making a deal with her. The Witch casts a spell on his ax and it cuts off his limbs one by one, each replaced by a tinsmith, until he is cut down the middle and no longer has a heart, and he no longer cared about the Munchkin girl. It seems that in the writing process, L. Frank Baum seemed to have forgotten about that because the Munchkin girl is never mentioned again, even after the Tin Man gets his heart.

In the movie, the Munchkin girl is not mentioned but the Tin Man does tell the same story in the stage version, only it's the Witch of the West who cast the spell on his ax. In Wicked, the Tin Man's character and background is totally changed and disregarded; I talked to a Wicked fan about this, and he said that the Tin Man was lying to Dorothy about the Munchkin girl. My response to that is no, he wasn't because Wicked is not canon to Wizard of Oz. L. Frank Baum didn't write it, and Gregory Maguire went out of his way to say it wasn't canon.

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I dunno, he finds her pretty soon after Dorothy throws the bucket of water but maybe there is supposed to be a significant time lapse. I've seen the show twice live but sometimes the plot details are hard to remember because of the awesome songs. Yes Wicked is not canon to TWOZ just like Maleficent is not canon to SB.

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You're a little off on the bit about Fiyero and Elphaba leaving right away after she fakes her death.


Here's how the scenes unfold

Elphaba and Glinda sing For Good

Elphaba tells Glinda to hide.

Glinda watches the chase around the castle which is done in silhouettes.

Dorothy throws the bucket of water on Elphaba and she, to Dorothy's knowledge, melts.

Glinda mourns Elphaba's death and Chisery gives Glinda the bottle Elphaba used to carry with her.

End of scene.

Next scene, Morrible says comments that the Wizard shouldn't be so upset because Dorothy and her companions seemed very happy with their brains and hearts, etc. Glinda comes in and confronts the Wizard about being Elphaba's father. She tells him to leave Oz. He agrees and Morrible is imprisoned.

We cut back to the beginning scene where Glinda is addressing the Ozians.

The scene shifts to the castle where Fiyero reveals that Elphaba didn't really melt. It may have appeared that way to Dorothy and her companions but it was a ruse. They leave Oz together. As they're leaving, Glenda is still speaking to the crowd.

The Scarecrow was certainly there to get his brains and he went back to his castle after Dorothy left Oz.

The March of the Witchhungers song is slightly off. My least favourite part of Wicked is that the little spineless twerp Boq was the Tin Woodsman. In the movie, the Tin Woodsman is emotional, kind, loving, gentle, funny and brave. At the end, he learns that he doesn't need a actual heart because he knows how to love deeply and that is shown through the devotion and love of his friends for him. Boq is a terrible character. He strings one girl along while pining after another. He shows none of the Tin Woodsman's traits and characteristics.

However, to be fair, we don't see what happens between the Wizard's order to bring him Elphaba's broomstick and when they're in the dark forest. You're right though that the sequence does seem out of character for the Tim Woodsman.

What Wicked did was (for about 95% of the story) keep the original movie in tact while giving us a backstory for the Wicked Witch of the West. If Maleficent had done that, I think it would have been a phenomenal movie. Or, perhaps if they had treated it like the Star Wars prequels or the Godfather where a good character makes choices that lead him down a path of murder and destruction until there is little of the good character remaining.

Lizzie


To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

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thanks for the corrections.

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Healing tree limbs and being friends with tree monsters are not necessarily a sign of benevolence. In Marvel Comics, the Plantman is a villain and in DC Comics, Poison Ivy is a villain. Both characters care about plants but will kill people. In real life there are some eco-terrorists who are willing to do the same thing.

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I have a theory that Disney was trying to do their own Wicked, since Universal owns the rights, and wanted a title to reflect that -- "wicked" and "maleficent" mean the same thing. However, they failed miserably on all accounts.


I think Disney is happy with $700 million worldwide box office. So even if you think it was a creative failure (which you clearly do) it has been a financial success, so not "on all accounts".

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Few ever denied the movie would make a tidy profit, though it appears it won't get anywhere near the 1 billion dollar mark in its initial run.

Nonetheless, financial success hardly equates to creative success - just witness the dismal Transformer series. Disney virtually always makes money, but in general the quality of their live-action films has paled in comparison to their animated efforts.

Maleficent is a good looking movie, but with a better screenplay it would have (and should have) been sensational.

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Lots thought it would flop like Lone Ranger did last year. Few thought it would make it to 3/4 of a billion.

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Lots thought it would flop like Lone Ranger did last year. Few thought it would make it to 3/4 of a billion.


It should be flopping with the way it's pissing on the original. It's mind blowing how it has gotten that far, even though it's such a crappy film.

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No offense to anyone but I felt this film was a bit too feminists for my tastes.


I'm pretty sure a good number of people on this board agree with you on that. It's pretty much valid, since Stefan, who was never a villain to begin with, is portrayed as a one-dimensional, psycho maniac with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and that our iconic villain Maleficent is made out to be a total victim, one reason being that she's female.

I didn't like how Maleficent woke up Aurora from the curse. I didn't like the portrayal of Stefan & Phillip & I was disgusted with the portrayal of the 3 fairies.


Right on the money; pretty much sums up my main reasons why I hate this film. Thanks for commenting.

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Yes. I haven't really checked it out much but I've heard good things about it. I also hear they're making a Cruella movie; well, I have to say about that is that not only was there already one, but two live-action 101 Dalmatians films, but Glenn Close was the perfect live-action Cruella DeVille in both. It will be VERY hard to top her to say the least.

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I haven't heard about the Beauty and the Beast remake; like, they're remaking the animated movie with the same characters (Beast, Belle, Gaston, Lefou, Lumiere, Cogsworth, Mrs. Potts, etc.)?

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I just read that Emma Watson is going be a part of it as well.

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I can't really state an opinion since I've only read the first book and seen the first movie once and didn't really follow them after that.

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Just wasn't interested.

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I like Sleeping Beauty more than Harry Potter.

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I find it irritating when people – in an attempt to display their “modern” sensibilities – refer to the character of Snow White as cloying and passive. Quite the opposite; she fled from her home to escape the cruel treatment of her insane stepmother, she managed to find a new place to live, she showed outstanding organizational skills and leadership abilities when she uniting the animals in the challenging task of making order out of the dwarves’ cottage (as for considering cleaning demeaning to women – or men, for that matter – hogwash. Is it more enlightening to live in squalor?), she gently disciplined the dwarves and had a hugely positive influence on their lives and behavior, and she transformed Grumpy from an emotionally shut down mess into a loving, caring individual.

And regarding the claim that she sat around waiting to be “rescued” by The Prince – again, twaddle. She was not “sitting around” – she had moved on with her life yet had unshakable confidence that she would eventually be reunited with her true love…and she was. Being loved and to be loved in return is the greatest reward life can give a person; if the populace finds this overly sentimental tripe, no wonder their are so many lost, unfocused and dissatisfied people in our world.

It seems that if a girl isn’t loud, immodest, quick-tempered, and generally masculine, she’s stupid and a weakling. Snow was not at all anti-feminist though. She ran away from her psychotic stepmother instead of freaking out and getting killed, got herself a job to earn her keep by doing stuff she was good at, she did it sweetly and motherly (because being overconfident and b*tchy like girls try to be is better, right?), and she was confident that she’d get the husband she wanted, which is not only very common for girls (and NOT wrong, unless they obsess over it), but she’d been abused by her only family member for who knows how long, so naturally she’d get lonely too.

She was busy the whole time she “waited” for the Prince (who I also suspected that unlike with Ariel, was not a complete total stranger; at least they shared a little communication) and did something with her life, even if it was for a short time. She was actually very feminist considering this was made in the 30′s, plus in the film’s setting that makes her seem even more progressive. It’s generally disgusting how a lot of young girls act today, especially to get guys, and she’s a good example of how they should try to act.

Cinderella, while mostly dealing with her domestic slavery at the hands of her stepmother and sisters with weary good nature, clearly sees herself as deserving something more and better. She is in a difficult situation and deals with it the best she can. I remember watching it for the first time since my childhood years ago and was surprised by how strong of a character Cinderella was. Example: she doesn't ask to go the ball. She demands that she be allowed go and it’s a very strong moment for the character. She points out to her stepmother that she is still a member of the family and that the decree is that EVERY eligible maiden attend the ball.

Sleeping Beauty however...it still gets me when people say it's anti-feminist when it's probably the most feminist movie of its time. I went over this earlier in the thread with another user, but I want you to consider this:

Name me a big, blockbuster, mainstream film made in the last fifty years that has:

1. A predominately female cast.

2. Where none of the main female protagonists are young or conventionally attractive (this is if you consider Aurora to be a supporting character.)

3. Where they are not sexualised in any way.

4. Where the fact that they are women is simply incidental and in no way effects their competence.

5. Where the female protagonists are working with rather than against each other.

Linda Woolverton completely ignored these things when writing the script for this movie, and it especially shows with the way she ended up portraying the fairies; where they are nothing more than bumbling, unintelligent, neglectful and stupid oafs. It's a slap in the face to the original! If anything, this movie doesn't empower women; it actually insults some of them as well as men in this movie.

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Do you hate The Little Mermaid as a movie?


As a movie, no. I believe it to be one of Disney's finest. If it weren't for this movie, we wouldn't have had the Renaissance in the 90's.

I do believe Ariel could have been better, though. I don't think she was bad; my problem was that she didn't learn anything. Throughout the movie, Ariel is reckless and gives no thought or consideration to others. She essentially made an irrevocable deal with the sea witch in order to be with a man she hadn't even spoken to, let alone know. And at the end, what happens? Ursula is defeated, and Ariel gets what she wants.

I don't have a problem with Ariel getting what she wants in the end. But after relentlessly disobeying her father, getting herself into a dangerous situation that would cost her everything for the sake of a man she doesn't know, she learns nothing. While the protagonist of the original book by Hans Christian Anderson (depressing as it is) suffers a great deal, owns up to the consequences of her actions, and doesn't take the easy way out; Ariel does not suffer at all, makes no real sacrifices, does nothing to bring down Ursula or save herself or her father or the kingdom, and rather than paying the consequences for her actions, gets exactly what she wants in the end. I do admit that the original story has flaws of its own, and that the theme is too grisly for a family film, but I don't believe Disney replaced it with a story of substance.

I don't fault people for liking it; I do myself. But I believe it could have been so much better. I even saw potential for Ariel that was further reached in the animated series; I just wish she would have learned something in her own movie.

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Speaking as an immense Ariel fan, not to mention a guy who is very much detail oriented, I would have to disagree with your analysis on Ariel from her original film.

I do believe Ariel could have been better, though. I don't think she was bad; my problem was that she didn't learn anything. Throughout the movie, Ariel is reckless and gives no thought or consideration to others. She essentially made an irrevocable deal with the sea witch in order to be with a man she hadn't even spoken to, let alone know. And at the end, what happens? Ursula is defeated, and Ariel gets what she wants.


I really wouldn't say she gave no thought or consideration for others. When Ursula laid the guidelines of the deal, Ariel was clearly hesitant, saying if she goes through with it, she'll never see her father and sisters again whichever way it goes. And she did indicate she wasn't sure how to pull off communicating to Eric when Ursula stated Ariel should give her voice up. Heck, when Flotsam & Jetsam directly suggested she go see Ursula, she actually refused them outright and even told them to get out of her sight, so it's not like she just jumped on it (not to mention throughout the deal she was hesitant and even grimacing and averting her eyes when she signed the contract). And even ignoring that, she did save Flounder from becoming shark chum, at great risk to herself I should add since she nearly became food herself, and she did save Sebastian from becoming Grimsby's dinner, despite the fact that she was most likely still somewhat angry with him for squealing to her dad.

As far as Ariel going for Eric, 1. She already wanted to become human anyway, already had a vested interest in humanity since well before she even laid eyes on Eric, let alone met him. In fact, Part of Your World made that very explicit, as if her plundering ships was not enough of a hint (heck, the writers actually GAVE her an interest in humanity that predated her first seeing Eric specifically to AVOID the implication that she only wanted to become human because of him). 2. While I'll admit that she never actually talked to him much, she DID know his character from observation during the party and storm when she was secretly observing him. At least that works in determining who's a good guy and who's a bad guy, and is arguably even better than face to face interaction when one party will probably just put up a show, like how Hans did with Anna. Besides, at least she knew him better than her dad King Triton who literally hated Eric solely because of his species, not for his character.

And personally, I think Ariel definitely learned her lesson in the end, considering she DID try to avenge Triton despite clearly being at a disadvantage and even telling Eric to leave her right before the final battle with Ursula.

I don't have a problem with Ariel getting what she wants in the end. But after relentlessly disobeying her father, getting herself into a dangerous situation that would cost her everything for the sake of a man she doesn't know, she learns nothing. While the protagonist of the original book by Hans Christian Anderson (depressing as it is) suffers a great deal, owns up to the consequences of her actions, and doesn't take the easy way out; Ariel does not suffer at all, makes no real sacrifices, does nothing to bring down Ursula or save herself or her father or the kingdom, and rather than paying the consequences for her actions, gets exactly what she wants in the end. I do admit that the original story has flaws of its own, and that the theme is too grisly for a family film, but I don't believe Disney replaced it with a story of substance.


To be honest, I wasn't particularly happy with the original tale, and not because the mermaid died. Actually, I personally felt disgusted with the mermaid's actions in that book, and not in the intended way: I just saw her as an extremely self-serving manipulator who just went to the Sea Witch and played vamp/Dementor for the prince for a purely selfish reason of getting an immortal soul (which also poses problems since, due to merpeople resembling humans in many ways beyond obviously the lower half, and we humans are God's ultimate creation, it would stand that merpeople at the very least have something similar, especially when they DID demonstrate sapience/sentience). And honestly, I felt the reason she fell for the prince in that version was far worse, as she literally only fell for him because she looked like that statue she had in her grotto, not to mention she didn't even seem to have much of an interest in humanity (it seemed more like her sisters had even any interest in humanity. At least THEY had an interest in the various sunken ships and the contents inside. She cared more for her flowers than that). Oh, and her actions actually did have severe consequences not just for her, but also directly impacted those around her that she never gave ANY thought to: Her grandma died of a broken heart because of her leaving, her dad suffered some misfortune, and her sisters essentially went through chemotherapy just to save their sister, which ultimately turned out to be pointless. She only did two selfless acts in the story. Saving the prince instead of drowning him, and deciding not to kill the prince or his bride. That's it. And what's worse, she also breaks the prince's heart by committing suicide, since even if he didn't love her like a wife, he DID still love her like a sister, and her sacrifice came across more like if I can't have him, my life is worthless. And she STILL gets what she wanted anyways. Had it been me who wrote the story, I'd have God give her a soul, yet damn her to Hell for all of eternity for all the selfishness she did in the story. The Disney version was much better. At least Ariel actually DID demonstrate a self-sacrificing nature to her, as demonstrated with Flounder and even with Eric regarding his plans to marry Vanessa (and believe me, unlike in the original tale, she doesn't even attempt to raise a hand against the marriage or even kill one or both of them even once, she actually WAS resigned to her fate, and only attempted to interfere when she learned that Vanessa was Ursula in disguise.). I know people consider the original a Christian story because she opted to kill herself as well as souls, yet even the ancient Greeks believed in that, not to mention there was a Trojan story where a kid literally died just keeping a stolen fox underneath his tunic.

And I really wouldn't say Ariel never suffered for her actions. Her saving Eric did result in Triton blowing up her grotto in a racism-laced temper tantrum, for example. Ariel did have balance problems. Her not being able to speak did pose a massive handicap and ruined the chance of Eric discovering her identity far sooner. Ariel and Eric were knocked overboard by Flotsam & Jetsam into a swamp before she could successfully kiss him. She nearly underwent her end of the bargain, both before and, thanks to the sun setting just before they could kiss, AFTER discovering Ursula was sabotaging the deal, and she nearly got killed by Ursula. Last I checked, that WAS suffering. Sure, it may not have been permanent, but that's only because Ariel and Eric managed to avert the disaster before it could become permanent. If you want a movie where the sufferings actually continue even after thwarting the threat, watch Batman: Under the Red Hood. That works perfectly for that. And while it is Eric who landed the deciding blow, I wouldn't downplay Ariel's role in Ursula's downfall. She DID attack Ursula immediately after she cursed her father and tried to avenge him (and even managed to catch her offguard briefly), and she DID manage to take out Flotsam and Jetsam and save Eric, which definitely was a crippling blow to Ursula, since it took out her means of observing the outside world.

I can agree with you that Ariel was definitely awesome in the TV series, though, and that Snow White, like Ariel, was also severely misblamed for various things (yes, technically, she DID have to wait for her prince to come ultimately, but in all fairness, what else could she do when she was placed into a coma?). And people like Linda Woolverton certainly don't help regarding how Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, and Ariel were severely misblamed as being merely damsels in distresses or that they are weak and only wait for their prince to come or only have love and marriage as a goal (only Aurora, BTW, actually solely had love and marriage as a goal, and in all fairness to her, Aurora wasn't even given much characterization in the original film, so it's not exactly her fault), and how Belle changed that. I can also agree with you that Linda Woolverton is a terrible writer, and that Maleficent was a horrible disservice to Sleeping Beauty.

I can tell you this much, though, Ariel certainly WAS better handled than Belle from Beauty and the Beast, who more than deserves the complaints about Ariel's character listed above. At least Ariel actually took responsibility for her actions and didn't blame anyone else for her messes at all, unlike Belle regarding the wolf attack. Heck, she didn't even THINK about whether exposing the Beast to the villagers would result in them attacking him and his servants, OR that Gaston would rabblerouse and instigate a lynch mob from the discovery despite her learning not a second before that Gaston was trying to blackmail her into marrying him by arranging for Maurice's arrest (and unlike Ursula who at least was slick enough to pretend to reform, Gaston doesn't even ATTEMPT to deny it at all).

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Okay, I'm a feminist and any notion that Maleficent is a pro-feminist movie is BS. Maleficent is the victim of a man. What happens then? She goes off the deep end and curses his child. So, how is that feminist? Women are so weak that if we're wronged by men, we're going to go nuts and start hurting innocent people? Heck no! And after she curses Aurora, Maleficent leaves the man who hurt her alone for sixteen years. So, women who are wronged by men hurt innocent people while letting the abuser get away with it for sixteen years? Again, no!

Also, look at the way Maleficent treats the character of Queen Leah. In Sleeping Beauty, we see Stefan with his arm around his wife while the three fairies hurry Aurora to safety. She's alive at the end waiting to welcome her daughter. In Maleficent, the Queen is tossed aside by every character in the story, including Aurora. Why the heck isn't Aurora mad at Maleficent? Her curse kept Aurora from an obviously loving mother (who died of a broken heart without the love of her daughter or husband, both of which she had in Sleeping Beauty).

As for people calling Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella anti-feminist movies, they're sorely mistaken. First, feminism is about seeking political, economic and legal equality for women. In none of these movies is there, at any point, the suggestion that women are not equal with men. Who's the ruler in Snow White? A Queen. Who will rule now that she's dead? Snow White.

Snow White, despite suffering abuse at the hands of the queen, stays at her castle. I'm sure that annoys people. But why? That's her castle and the Queen has her crown. After the death of her father, Snow White should have ascended the throne. She's the heiress presumptive. Instead, the crown is usurped by her step-mother. Also, Snow White is only supposed to be between the ages of 14-16. She's in no position to mount an offensive to re-take her kingdom. So, she stays. She doesn't abandon her crown, her castle or her kingdom. That takes guts!

Now, she's eventually forced to flee for her life. The rest you've already summed up.

Some of the same applies to Cinderella. She waits to be rescued? More like she stays in HER home that was usurped by her step-mother. That is Cindella's family home.

Now, it's no secret that Ever After is my favourite telling of Cinderella. In it, we see why Cinderella stayed more clearly. She doesn't want to see her home fall apart. She can't see the three servants who served her family so loyally over the years sold or turned out. Also, she initially wants the prince to marry her step-sister so she can take over the manor. In Disney's Cinderella, I'm sure she stayed for the exact same reason. That's her home. If she stays, it will return to her one day.

Also, what about the prince? He loves this woman. Why isn't he out looking for her? Why is he sending his servants, who didn't spend hours on end dancing with her, to search for her? It is far more likely that the prince could walk into a subject's house than it is a girl could waltz into the palace looking for her lost she. If anyone "saves" Cinderella, it's the mice. Yay animal rights!

Sleeping Beauty has already been covered. Again, there's nothing to suggest that women and men aren't equal in the eyes of the law in Aurora's kingdom. King Stefan rejoiced at the birth of a daughter and didn't seem to have the smallest problem with her being his heir apparent and when his daughter was threatened (by a woman), he turned his daughter over, not to men and soldiers, but to women to be raised away from himself and his wife.

The only complaint I have with Cinderella, Snow White and Sleeping Beauty is the limited interaction between the women and their princes. However, that isn't what feminism is all about and it certainly doesn't make those movies anti-feminist. That's why I love Ever After so much. We actually get to see Cinderella and her Prince interact and fall in love. We also know why they fell in love.

Maleficent's writers could have learned a lot about re-telling a story from Ever After. This movie makes all of the male characters either stupid or evil. That isn't the case with Ever After. Prince Henry is his own character and he isn't afraid to give his own opinion. He calls Danielle a hypocrite and one point and gets upset after she lies to him about her identity. He later comes, on his own, to forgive Danielle and realize that he spoke too quickly. However, at no point does his change of heart make his harsh words seem like that of a villain. I think anyone would feel hurt and betrayed that the person we loved had been lying to us.

We also see men and women risk everything to help each other. Gustave attacks a palace guard to find Signore DaVinci who, in turn, saves Danielle, Daneille saves Maurice from being shipped to the Americas, Maurice, Paulette and Louise hide Danielle's gown from the Baroness and send Danielle to the ball, Danielle saves Prince Henry from the gypsies, and, yes, I'm sure Prince Henry had to step in to protect Danielle from Pierre Le Pieu (who, until she married Henry, outranked her socially making her attack on him an even graver offense), etc.

Danielle's father is shown to be a loving, caring, and devoted father but also a successful and hard-working merchant.

The film has three antagonists, two women and one man. While our knowledge of the social and political times in which the movie is set gives us some sympathy for the Baroness, it isn't enough to save her from being a villain who made a young woman's life miserable when she had the power to make it wonderful (all Danielle wanted was to be loved like a daughter after the deaths of her parents. She also wanted a mother).

I can't think of a single Disney movie I believe to be anti-feminist. Maleficent wants so badly to be feminist that it ultimately shoots itself in the foot in that department. Feminism is about equality. It isn't about dumbing down the male characters to make the female characters look better.

Sorry for the rant but feminism is something I feel very strongly about. I also dislike how so many think of feminism as man-hating. It was never, ever supposed to be that. It was about equality.

Lizzie

To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

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Housefan2,

Well said, as always. It's interesting that you brought up Ever After, because later in this thread, I had an interesting debate with user BritBrine, and one of the things he/she made assumptions of was that I hated Ever After for the same reasons I hated Maleficent. You can read it for yourself, but for the reasons you went into depth on, his/her argument was a strawman fallacy and comparing apples to oranges. I believe you made so many great points on how it's a great telling of Cinderella, and I completely agree.

Author of one novel in-progress at http://www.wattpad.com/user/StrongRex

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Your critique of Maleficent is spot on but I admit I would question your taste in movies if you hated Ever After as passionately as you hate Maleficent.

Ever After is also a great example of how a villain can be made sympathetic. The scene between Danielle and the Baroness is wonderful for humanizing the character. She is a noblewoman who marries a commoner. Usually, the gentry didn't marry with commoners. In this case, it's my guess that the Baroness's husband died destitute and maybe even destitute and indebted. So, now the Baron's family is stuck with this woman and her two daughters plus the Baron's debts. What to do? Procure a marriage to a wealthy man who will not demand a dowry and pay off the debts.

That's where Auguste comes in. He's a wealthy commoner. He would certainly marry the Baroness and not demand a dowry. Why? Because her title would do more for his family than more money. He would be marrying a titled woman. While he wouldn't get her title or even be considered a member of the gentry, it would be possible for his wealth and fortuitous marriage to allow him more room to negotiate a great marriage for Danielle (Danielle being his greatest concern). Perhaps she could even marry a titled man and then she would be a member of the gentry. He probably never even considered a prince of France, let alone the heir to the throne, but he probably thought a match to a knight or a Baron or even a Duke.

Now, while the marriage would have been advantageous for Auguste, it would have been humiliating for the Baroness. She marries beneath her rank and station in life. To top it all off, she doesn't know the man. I can't imagine marrying a man I don't know. How terrible!

Things might have been okay but then Auguste dies and Rodmilla is stuck with a farm she knows nothing about and three daughters.

Still, despite all of that, I still consider the Baroness to be a villain and she is portrayed as such. If she had just showed Danielle even a hint of kindness (or possibly even loved her as a daughter), she would probably have been the honored step-mother of the future Queen of France. That title would be more prestigious than the title of Baroness. But she chose not to do so. So she ends up losing her title altogether and being sent to work as a servant in the royal palace. And I can't think of anyone who doesn't think that was justified (considering that the King and Queen had the power to execute her and were prepared to ship her to the Americas). A great, complex villain.

Unlike Maleficent.

Lizzie

To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

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Oh I completely agree with your analysis. Don't get me wrong, I liked Ever After. I'm saying that BritBrine jumped to conclusions by assuming I didn't.

Author of one novel in-progress at http://www.wattpad.com/user/StrongRex

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Housefan2, what are your arguments against people saying Maleficent was raped? I remember at least a few users going out of their way to claim she was actually raped, and as you and several others pointed out, there's a huge difference between rape and dismemberment. You had so many good, sound, logical arguments, but now I think the topics discussing them are gone.

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[deleted]

"I also hear they're making a Cruella movie"

Ooh, I bet I can guess the plot:

The story centers around the wonderful DeVille family: a veterinarian father, an animal rights activist mother, three daughters and one son. The entire family loves animals but none more so than middle daughter, Cruella. Cruella was born with a terrible birth defect that leaves part of her hair white and part of her hair black. At school, Cruella is the victim of bullying and has few friends. Her biggest bully: the beautiful and popular Anita. To escape for her torment, Cruella turns to animals.

When Cruella is 18, her entire family is killed by a rabid dalmatian her father attempts to help. Cruella, away at college, is the sole survivor. She drops out of school, moves into the family mansion and her heart hardens toward animals.

As her heart hardens, Cruella looks for ways to exact revenge on the breed of dog that so wronged her. She decides to make a winter coat out of dalmatian puppy fur. She proceeds to get as many dalmatian puppies as possible.

When she is only 15 puppies short of her goal, Cruella runs into old school chum, Anita. She learns that Anita is now living a high life. She married a Justin Bieber-esq singer named Roger Radcliffe. They live in a huge mansion, overspending their income and entertaining high society.

On a visit to Anita's house, she notices two dogs named Pongo and Perdita. She learns that Perdita is pregnant. In a flash, Cruella decides to use her former tormentor's puppies to make her fur coat. She returns to The Radcliff mansion the night the puppies are born. However, Anita and Rogers refuse to sell. They have decided to create a puppy mill using the offspring of Pongo and Perdita's puppies.

Fearing for the life the puppies will live, Cruella's heart begins to melt. After trying unsuccessfully to get Roger and Anita to sell, Cruella leaves, promising to return. That night, Cruella hires Horace and Jaspar, two down on their luck electricians, to steal the puppies and bring them to safety.

Horace and Jasper succeed and take the puppies to DeVille Manor to join the puppies Cruella purchased from pet stores. Cruella arrives and is upset that Pongo and Perdita were left behind. She wants to start a Dalmatian Planation - a huge rescue for unwanted dogs, especially dalmatians.

When Cruella hears that Pongo and Perdita have run away from home in search of their puppies, Cruella sets out (along with Horace and Jasper) to help find the two lost dogs and reunite them with their puppies. Along the way, she finds help from Colonel, Captain and Sargent Tibbs.

Cruella eventually finds Pongo and Perdita but Anita and Roger have caught up. In order to make their escape, Cruella has Pongo and Perdita roll in soot to disguise them as Labrador retrievers. Roger and Anita sense something is up but when Perdita falls in the snow, they know what's going on. They chase after Cruella. However, Cruella gets away with the dogs.

The movie ends with Cruella saving Pongo and Perdita, reuniting them with their puppies, and turning Daville Manor into the first Humane Society. To get revenge, Roger sells a song mocking Cruella but everyone in the community is so impressed with her loving care for animals that the song flops. Broke and in debt, Roger and Anita declare bankruptcy and are evicted from their mansion.

The death of Cruella's family at the hands of a rabid dalmatian will be a metaphor for rape. It will never be discussed why such a loving family named their daughter Cruella DeVille (Cruel Devil). The movie will end with a narrator saying that the only person who could save the day is one who is both hero and villain (even though she never really does anything villainous): Cruella DaVille

God I can't wait for this movie!

Lizzie

To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

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Yep. Sounds exactly like something Linda Woovlerton would come up with if Disney hires her for this movie. In which case, why are you giving her ideas? For shame!

She married a Justin Bieber-esq singer named Roger Radcliffe.


If it had been Justin Beiber who sang that god-awful version of "Cruella DeVille" instead of Selena Gomez, that statement would have been more ironic. Though they might still play that song in the credits of the film...ugh...

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[deleted]

I agree with everything you said.

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I have heard so many people comparing this movie to the way history is written in real life; as in, the victorious side will write it in a way that makes them look better instead of presenting both sides fairly and what really happened. However, not only did I think this sort of thing does not apply to fiction, but in this movie, Maleficent wins. So if that were the case, why wouldn't she be writing history in the original Sleeping Beauty? After all, Stefan and his queen were dead, Aurora was his only heir, and Philip wasn't an enemy to Maleficent. By their logic, what's stopping Maleficent from writing Sleeping Beauty the way she wants it, that doesn't portray her as wicked, portrays Stefan as a good guy, shows the fairies to be competent and caring, and shows her losing at the end?

So that argument fails. With that said, I still chalk up Maleficent to be a terribly written movie that only succeeded because it was Disney, had cool special effects, and Angelina Jolie was the star.

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The way I see it is that this is the true story of what happened, and Snow White is the fantasy legend that was told by the humans and changed over time.

_______________________________________
Stupid people make me angry.

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The way I see it is that this is the true story of what happened


I already talked about this. If you want to know what I said, read through the thread because I'm tired of repeating myself.

and Snow White is the fantasy legend that was told by the humans and changed over time.


What? Snow White??? How in the world can anyone think this story has to do with Snow White? It's like when I run into people at the zoo who confuse lions with tigers. It's ridiculous!

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[deleted]

The one who's telling the story here is Sleeping Beauty herself.


Who, according to this movie, had united both the fairy AND human kingdoms. If this were the "true" story, there's no reason for the movie Sleeping Beauty to portray Maleficent as the bad guy even if some 'surviving minion' told a different story. So my point still stands.

And didn't Aurora sleep for like 100 years? That right there goes against the one fairy freeing the prince in a single night.


Except this is specifically about the character Maleficent, who as I recall wasn't named or written as such in the original fairy tale. Because this movie is about her, I have been and will continue to hold this movie to the standards of Disney's animated Sleeping Beauty.

There are major plotholes in the 1959 film.


Really? I never saw any.

I saw nothing wrong with making the king a villian. Usually they are.


Whether most kings were bad people or not is beside the point. Stefan was NEVER a villain, and neither was his counterpart in the original fairy tale. I would be just as offended, if not more so, if Mufasa was made a villain in a movie with Scar as the protagonist.

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[deleted]

I liked the movie.
Fine. Others didn't like it - OK?

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[deleted]

Directing a comment like that at you was a mistake on my part - I apologize.

All I can say is I overreacted too quickly, but I've seen to many postings from others (not you) on this board who treat anyone who doesn't absolutely adore this movie as female hating Neanderthals.

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[deleted]

One, just because a kingdom was no longer the enemy of another kingdom doesn't mean there wasn't some bitter nut out there who wanted to distort things.


And who would listen to that bitter nut when everything was recorded and written down at the time it happened? Much like many people are saying the Holocaust never happened, so my point still stands. Maleficent is NOT the true version of Sleeping Beauty.

You're still ignoring the basic fact that Maleficent won in this new movie. People keep comparing this movie to real history which they say is written by, guess what, the winners! And now you're coming back and saying, "Oh, a minion must have survived and distorted things!" Which is it?

Two, the original story is what you're going on with the POV of who's telling it now. So originally the curse was for 100 years. There's where the plothole exists.


That's not a plot hole. That was a small change that Disney used in order to make their version of the story work, since they further developed the side characters and villain from the original story. No one ever said that Princess Aurora in 1959 Sleeping Beauty slept for 100 years: Maleficent only PLANNED it that way to torment Philip yet her plans were thwarted! Do you even know what a plot hole is?

I'm comparing the two storylines like you are comparing the recent one with the animated one. Fair is fair.


Fair has nothing to do with this argument. This is about the movie Maleficent, which is supposed to be the prequel to DISNEY'S version of Sleeping Beauty. The other versions are irrelevant. And since you don't seem to think so, let me ask you this:

1. Maleficent, as we know her, was not named or developed as such in the original story, so why are you not objecting to that?

2. This movie proved to be even less faithful to the original story.

There has been a theme with showing more of the villain's side of things in recent years. Wicked is a play about the wicked witch from the Wizard of Oz, the Great Oz also tells of the story behind one of them.


You must have really skipped over a bunch of posts in this thread, because several users and I already went over Wicked in great detail. You are also putting words in my mouth by implying that I have a problem with movies showing the villain's side, when that's not the case. I have a problem with their writers taking everyone out of character in order to make the villain look good.

Here is the difference between Wicked and Maleficent: Wicked does a better job telling the story of how the Wicked Witch of the West came to be what we see in the Wizard of Oz. For example, the scene in Munchkinland took place as we see it in the Wizard of Oz. However, in Wicked we see that Glinda said the things that she did and acted the way that she did out of spite rather than goodwill toward Dorothy (in the previous scene, her fiancé abandoned her for Elphaba), the Munchkins have every reason to fear Elphaba (her sister tormented them and the Wizard's version of MSNBC made her unpopular). Elphaba is grieving the loss of her sister and reacts poorly to Dorothy.

Elphaba still kidnaps Dorothy and locks her in the cellar for not giving her the shoes. At this point, Elphaba has decided to just be wicked.

Dorothy and her friends are still chased around the castle by the Wicked Witch and her guards. However, now we know that there wasn't any danger at all. However, Dorothy didn't know that.

Wicked truly shows us the Wizard of Oz from the perspective of the Wicked Witch. It also takes over two hours to develop the character of Elphaba and show us WHY she acted the way that she did.

Wicked also didn't change nearly every character to make Elphaba look good.

If Maleficent had been given the Wicked treatment, a majority of the story would have focused on Maleficent and the events in her life that lead her to being the Mistress of All Evil, it would have kept the events of Sleeping Beauty the same (but while giving us a new lens to look through) and the ending would have been the same with a twist.

If Wicked had been given the Maleficent treatment, the events of the Wizard of Oz would have been completely changed. Maybe Elphaba shows up in Munchkinland and threatens Dorothy. However, she quickly regrets that decision and spends the rest of the movie trying to help and save her, they would have become friends and ruled Oz together.

Wicked tells us how a great villain became who she is and how she ultimately fixed her mistakes. Maleficent tells us how a great villain isn't a villain at all but a misunderstood and tortured victim who, despite all of that, still had a pure heart.

And while I'm at it, I will point out yet another villain that wasn't given the Maleficent treatment: Anakin Skywalker aka Darth Vader. How did Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader? And while the prequels have serious problems, I have to give them major points for not shying away from making Anakin a villain. He kills children, helps hunt down and kill his former compatriots, attempts to kill his former mentor and even tries to strangle his wife. By the end of Revenge of the Sith, Anakin is truly Darth Vader. He's evil. However, we still remember the little boy on Tattooine who helped others, who fell in love with Padme and had a close friendship with Obi-Wan. That man is still inside Darth Vader and, at the end of Return of the Jedi, Anakin is back.

That is what Maleficent was supposed to be. We were supposed to see how Maleficent became the Mistress of All Evil. But we didn't get that at all. Instead, she's the hero who was spurned by a lover, something we have all seen before and done better in other movies. Her redemption doesn't mean much because she never inflicts lasting damage. In Star Wars, Darth Vader caused lasting damage which Anakin Skywalker would never be able to fix. The Jedi who were massacred are still dead, he still committed genocide against Leia's people, he still tortured Han, Leia and Chewy for information on Luke, he still murdered unarmed children, etc.

I had no problem whatsoever with showing us how Maleficent became the manifestation of evil nor did I have a problem with changing the ending (like surviving the stab wound in her dragon form from her battle with Philip) so she lives and even finds redemption. However, redemption stories are only powerful when there's something to truly be redeemed from.

So to put down this film based on that fact, is like saying that the other side deserves no room to tell their side.


Again, putting words in my mouth. I don't have a problem with seeing the side of villains, in fact I often see it as an opportunity as a fascinating character study if done right. I have a problem with changing the story entirely and taking everyone out of character. It seems you really did not read my review on this movie or you would not be accusing me of rejecting villain sides of the story completely.

And pfft, really you'd be offended if they made another movie themed like that?


Um, yes. I would.

Why?


Again, you really did not read my review or you would know the answer to this question. I said point blank: If you're going to make a well- known villain a backstory and show us their point of view, it's okay to give them layers and grey areas in order to make them more interesting and multi-dimensional, even to show they weren't always evil. But NOT to say they were never evil at all; that just completely defeats the point of the character! Same with the good guys; they may have their own flaws, show that they have their own prejudices, or that everything they did wasn't perfect. But NOT to say "the good guys were really EVIL OR STUPID!"

I don't know how I can make that any more clear. It really is possible to make us sympathize or even root for the villain without making the good guys look bad or take them out of character. For example: based on what I've heard about this book called "Fairest of All: A Tale of the Wicked Queen," we learn all about the background of Snow White's stepmother, the Evil Queen. We sympathize with her and understand where she is coming from as we read her story. But we still understand that she is a villainous monster that needs to be taken down. That's what this movie, Maleficent, should have been.

Sauron is evil through and through, but there's still a big empty hole as to why he was so evil.


That's my view of Maleficent, and still is after seeing the movie. My point about Scar was not that I didn't want there to be a movie about him. Heck, there are even some stories out there that Disney approved that went a little further into Scar's background. My point was I didn't want a movie made that completely made him out to be sweet and innocent and Mufasa, Simba, Sarabi, etc. were all evil or stupid, completely defeating the point of their characters like a badly written fanfic would do (and did to Maleficent-seriously, the whole movie is like a badly written fanfic).

And because of what they did to Maleficent, I don't have much faith in Disney's ability to tell stories anymore. I imagine they'll do the same thing to Cruella when that comes out.

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[deleted]

Well you sure seem pissed off and taking your anger out on me for sharing my thoughts. I didn't read all your novel-length posts and just a few other shorter ones, but I addressed what you said in one of your posts despite that you come across as a very disgruntled fan.


That would explain why you were putting words in my mouth.

Really? Who listens to bitter nuts everyday? The world is filled with misinformation and disinformation and lies and propaganda. People listen to whatever gossip, lies, crazy crap because that's how people are.

And furthermore who said anything about it "being recorded and written down at the time it happened"?? Who says that? Are you just throwing in your own facts here? Was there a point in any of the movies that this is even stated?


As opposed to you who threw in the nonsense about some bitter nut who wanted to distort everything? Where was THAT stated in the movie?

WTF does this have to do with the Holocaust? Your point stands?


Yes, my point stands. I was comparing what you said about that bitter nut who wanted to distort everything, and I brought up the Holocaust as an example of undeniable history despite the fact that it would be stupid to do so. My question still remains: if what happened in Maleficent was the true account, then why doesn't Sleeping Beauty (1959) tell the same story?

And Maleficent only won what was hers to begin with. She was restored. I was glad about that. Why is that so hard to take?


Because it didn't happen.

WELL Sleeping Beauty (1959) seemed to have been written by some victors there, huh? Works both ways.


No it doesn't work both ways. You fans were the ones who paraded that logic around like it's something everyone has to accept. I am turning it back on you, saying that Maleficent won in this version. If this movie were the true account in Sleeping Beauty, it would have been a much more likely scenario if Maleficent still lost, but were portrayed as some sort of martyr, like if Aurora was out there trying to get her story told. But she wasn't a martyr.

Wait, so, YOU can compare older versions of SB to the recent one, but I can't compare the ORIGINAL story to the 1959 film?


I'm not comparing older version(s), I'm comparing the only version that Maleficent is based on. That is, what Disney expects us to accept as canon. Think of it this way: there are many movie versions of Phantom of the Opera that have some variation of the novel by Gaston Leroux, yet they are not all canon to each other because so many different things happen in their stories. But the musical written by Andrew Lloyd Webber is probably the most well-known, and it spawned a sequel entitled Love Never Dies which Webber expects fans to accept as canon to HIS version. But many fans hate the sequel, and with good reason.

The fact is, they didn't go with the formula here that was used in Wicked or Star Wars, they went with what they felt was the backstory and it is possible that some villians really were just victims. This victim just happened to have a lot of character from what we see of Sleeping Beauty's telling of what she herself saw in Maleficent.


Or maybe they didn't go with the formula because Linda Woolverton is a terrible, lazy writer. Whenever I think of Maleficent, I think of a lot of things but a victim was never one of them. Because she was NEVER a victim. And Maleficent in this version has no character at all; she's just wishy-washy and inconsistent.

If you see Ever After (the Cinderella story starring Drew Barrymore) you'll see a vast difference from her OWN recollection of events to that of the classic Disney tale. I suppose you hated that movie as well or will if you ever see it.


I did see that movie, and no I didn't hate it. First of all, it was not based on the 1950 Disney film, nor was it made by Disney period. Second of all, there you go again putting thoughts in my mouth. Despite the many different details they added to the movie, they still were pretty true to the general story of Cinderella. Same thing with Snow White: A Tale of Terror. Even though there were different things in that version of Snow White, they were still pretty true to it for the most part (at least that I can remember), and what do you know? They actually gave us a fleshed out villain in that film!

Lastly, why would you trust Disney or any other film industry to produce quality movies?


Because they DID produce quality movies.

Movies are supposed to entertain us. Not educate us. At least that's not what those companies are trying to do. They're all about the $$$, they couldn't care less about anything else.


Well, maybe that's the problem with the film industry today.

Yeah badly written fanfic, and there are MUCH worse movies from badly written fanfic. 'Twilight' to name but one.


Maybe there are, but being a person with opinions, I will be the judge of that myself. I don't know what you're still doing here, but you're not going to change my mind about this film.

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[deleted]

Again, wow. You're just so full of malcontent.


I believe it's the other way around, sir.

The bitter nuts who might distort things might very easily be the ones you applaud as being the end-all be-all of Sleeping Beauty. But here Sleeping Beauty herself tells a different tale. And like all the wise of any generation, probably endured the hogwash that Maleficent was some evil bitch. The previous versions that had her being an animated whack-o with little to no character at all. Yeah that pretty much sums up bitter and nutty.


Already thoroughly refuted all of that; no point in throwing it back at me.

I was replying to a post you directed at me. I had no idea I was to just read your take on things and not say a thing. I had no idea that you ran this board.


Funny. I got the same exact impression from you on what I should or should not accept about this movie.

Also wasn't trying to change your mind


Sure looks like you were.

just wondering what all the fuss is about since it's not a bad film.


It's one of the worst films I have ever seen, and I went into great detail as to why that is. Re-read my review if you want the answer to that question.

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[deleted]

It's quite easy for anyone to make the assumption that you're angry about the movie and would like it to die.


And that's absolutely true.

Okay. That's fine by me, but I was simply putting forth my views on it. Saw your posts and decided to put forth my own opinions and what I'd seen with my own eyes.


And so you have.

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[deleted]

evil as Good
And
Good as evil

When I heard of the plot, I rejoiced it would be a new version, adding a good twist for the redeeming of Maleficent, which is most welcome.
Frankly speaking, in the animated version, I was a little sorry for Maleficent' s end - deserved though - as a dragon when Prince Philip's sword went through its heart.
I thought that clipping the monster's wings forcing it to awkwardly run hiding in shame, unable to regain its original form would be enough.


This new version would be the occasion for a good story to develop.
Unfortunately, right from the beginning, the authors undercut themselves by retaining the name "Maleficent" and the horns that go with it, for a fairy supposedly good in her youth.
They should have chosen a sweet name for her and suppress the horns.


There 's nothing wrong, as a prequel to "Sleeping Beauty" in showing young Stefan' s selfish ambition leading to the betrayal of his sweetheart.

The story of why she had to fight the incursions of the greedy kingdom,
and the detail of how iron hurts the fairies, would be acceptable too,
in a nod to the ecologists (who are not always wrong, btw)as a parable
of how human singlemindedness for gain is destroying nature.

The story can then move on to the wronged beautiful fairy going in utter bitterness, to see an evil denizen of the forest, a powerful witch, a kind
of female Beetle Juice until then shunned by all, to seek revenge against
the world of humans.

Her faithful friends the 3 Good Fairies try to dissuade her but to no avail.

The evil witch, not unlike the kraken in "The Little Mermaid" has her own plans, but until then is unable to carry them out due to her own limited success in corrupting the Good with her hideous appearance.
Now is her yum-yum opportunity !

So the deal with the once sweet fairy would be a new name :
Maleficent, and the horns that go with it, and the obligation to cast a curse affecting even the most innocent in the Human Realm.

Which would explain Maleficent' s power to be greater than that of the 3 Good Fairies, but also her unability to undo the curse once it 's casted.

So when the day comes, Maleficent needs no prodding to go and confront her betrayer and exact revenge.

The story can follow the original plot up to Aurore' s approaching 16th birthday and her meeting with Prince Philip.

But here a good twist to the plot can be made with the remaining Good in Maleficent' s heart stirred by watching the 2 young people, which reminds her of the past romance with Stefan.
Nevertheless it' s still too soon for the fairy to repent, so she has Prince Philip abducted by her evil-witch-provided goons and taken to her dark castle.

But now her heart is stirred again by looking at Aurore and thinking how she could have been her own daughter.

And she suddenly finds it a matter of life or damnation to undo the curse on Aurore by freeing Prince Philip.

But the goons in her castle turn out in fact to be her guards too since they are under the evil-witch's familiar Diaval appointed as "political commissar&"
to keep her under watch.
Her good past doesn't exactly inspire the evil powers with trust.

So they bring her to the witch for the reading of the contract fine print.
The clause is that failure to implement the curse would result in the transfer of her great powers to the witch and her transformation into a lowly creature.

Maleficent understands now to her horror that there is a greater evil power above the witch that works through the latter.

In his castle, King Stefan longs for his daughter and regrets the betrayal of his first love in such a way, every time he looks at the captive pair of wings.

To add to his burden, the Queen falls ill.

Maleficent against her will, has to let Aurore fall under the spell.

Meanwhile, the 3 Good Fairies braving the dangers, deliver Prince Philip
from the dungeon when a dejected Maleficent inadvertently returns to the
castle and surprises them.
During the tense confrontation, Maleficent makes her on-the-spot decision
to side with her former friends and Prince Philip.

After all she has fulfilled her side of the contract and is now free.

But her turning around has angered the evil authority who in retaliation immediately grants the witch new powers greater than Maleficent's.

Prince Philip, armed with the weapons provided by the 3 Good Fairies rushes to
the castle to save Aurore.
But he soon runs into the obstacles set up by the evil witch now changed into a lethal fire-breathing dragon !

A badly weakened Maleficent has to be carried through the air by her 3 friends to King Stefan' s castle, where a desperate Philip is fighting a losing battle against the monster to gain entrance.

The 4 fairies would have fared no better were they to join their forces with Philip, so they decide instead to land inside the castle to seek whatever help they can find.

There's an awkward but tense confrontation between Maleficent and King Stefan,
bringing in a rush all the contradictory feelings they had and still have for each other.

Maleficent's captive wings sensing her presence flutter frenziedly, burning themselves cruelly against the iron cage.

King Stefan understanding now Maleficent's change of heart begs for forgiveness and for her help in saving Aurore.

Stefan rushes to open the cage and give back Maleficent her wings which reattach themselves lovingly to their owner.

Thus empowered, Maleficent and her 3 friends soar to battle and rescue a badly cornered but still valiantly fighting Prince Philip.
The 4 fairies divert the monster' s attention briefly to allow Philip to throw his sword at its heart, but he misses.
Maleficent makes a dash for the weapon to bravely bayonet-charge the fire-breathing dragon and killing it, but sacrificing herself too in the beast's scorching breath, to the deep sorrow of everybody.

The joy at Princess Aurore and Prince Philip's union, and the Queen' s reestablishment is left with the sadness of Maleficent' s death.

But when their first royal child is born, the baby happens to be a daughter
who looks exactly like the gentle fairy before Maleficent, and they name her Beneficent, which was the fairy' s original name.[/b]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


For me the movie derailed at the moment of Maleficent becoming Aurore's sole redemptrix and demeaning everybody else.
I still marvel why Maleficent has not turned the crow Diaval into the Prince Charming as substitute for the good-for-nothing Philip.

In conclusion, I recommend you the 1971DDR(now DefunctDR)-made "Dornroschen",
in a weird way, it will make you laugh your head off, seeing it to be so
in character with its country of origin.













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[deleted]

"Maleficent" is precisely a "kids film" deliberately perverted by its authors.

And your prescribed cure tells all there 's to know 'bout you.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

You said that already.

-
http://aredo3604gif.tumblr.com

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I think he's just trying to be annoying.

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I think he's trying to get on everyone's Ignore list. He certainly is on mine. Thank GOD for that list!

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"And this is a recording."

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i'm agree with most of your opinion about this movie. While i don't really mad that Disney made Maleficent the good guy, i wish they can show the character development better.

Yes, it's pretty harsh what Stefan did to her but to make her suddenly flip out and become evil in one night is just baffling.

And her relationship with Aurora -which is in my opinion, the greatest twist on the original story- should be expanded more! I just don't see how Aurora can get so attached to an evil -yet hot- looking fairy with horns?! Is it just because Maleficent a fairy so Aurora will automatically like her so much? It doesn't make any sense. Of course Maleficent safe her a couple of times from her idiotic fairy godmothers but she did it in secret and Aurora seems to be too small to come to a conclusion that an evil -yet hot- looking fairy with horns is watching over her.

And i agree 100% about the 3 fairies, it's an insult to the original trio, who wants an awful rip-off of The Three Stooges in Sleeping Beauty?

This is the first Disney movie that i wish have longer duration because the premise is so interesting and i want more from it. I wish there will be a 2 hours director's cut or something that explain more about the characters development.

And yeah i hate that leather pants! Ugh!

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And her relationship with Aurora -which is in my opinion, the greatest twist on the original story- should be expanded more! I just don't see how Aurora can get so attached to an evil -yet hot- looking fairy with horns?! Is it just because Maleficent a fairy so Aurora will automatically like her so much? It doesn't make any sense. Of course Maleficent safe her a couple of times from her idiotic fairy godmothers but she did it in secret and Aurora seems to be too small to come to a conclusion that an evil -yet hot- looking fairy with horns is watching over her.


I just reread my review, and I realized I didn't say anything about this part. It was the biggest problem in the movie, and yet I didn't touch on it. Maybe it was because I had talked about it before so many times before writing it, but I still should have said something.

I don't believe for a second that Maleficent and Aurora would ever have a type of relationship where they would like each other. Why? Well, for one, it completely ignores the fact that Maleficent didn't even know where Aurora was until the day of her sixteenth birthday. But then again, this movie does whatever the hell it wants with the story and the characters everywhere else in Sleeping Beauty, and this part is no exception.

Secondly, even if Maleficent knew full well where Aurora was and what the fairies were planning from the start, she would NEVER, in a million years, seek out a relationship where she is a mother-like figure. Maleficent is the embodiment of evil; hence, why she calls herself The Mistress of All Evil. She hates anything good, which in contrast is everything Aurora stands for: beauty, song, kindness, innocence, etc. Aurora may indeed be fascinated by someone like Maleficent, but Maleficent would never love someone like her because Maleficent is incapable of real love. See, before the film came out, the people defending this movie were trying offer scenarios where Maleficent is even more dangerous knowing where Aurora was, and was planning something even more devastating as a result. I knew better since I had read the script before hand, and now we all now that's not what happened, is it?

I definitely agree with you about the fairies. Woolverton couldn't even be bothered to make them fleshed-out characters with definite flaws but still good guys. She had to make them stupid, idiotic, and a rip-off of the Three Stooges except completely unfunny and infuriating to watch. Same with Stefan; take a good, noble king who loves his daughter and wife more than anything and turn him into an evil, cold-hearted bastard for no reason. Like I said, this movie does whatever the hell it wants without any respect or regard for the source material it is based on.

I wanted to like this movie too; I wanted to see a REAL backstory on why Maleficent was actually evil. But that's not what we got: they glossed over any "backstory" Maleficent may have had, gave us an over-used motivation for her to be righteously angry, watered down her evil deeds, and completely changed the story.

Author of one novel in-progress at http://www.wattpad.com/user/StrongRex

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