MovieChat Forums > Borgen (2011) Discussion > Politically Naive Series

Politically Naive Series

posted 13 years ago by cbormson
39 replies | jump to latest

I watched the first two episodes of Borgen. Although there are things that I like about the series, it seems that it was written by someone with no political knowledge. I have some knowledge about parliamentary systems (although no knowledge of Danish politics), but I would be surprised that an election would swing on a two minute speech. Plus, despite being a party leader, the main character knows practically nothing about politics, has practically no staff, sees the PM by herself, etc. The media seems to know nothing about her, despite her leading a respectable party.

[–] imdbfriend 13 years ago

Agree with you. Just watched first two episodes myself and have the same opinion of the show. But I still want to see it through and see where it goes.

[–] TheDoctorsMistress 13 years ago

The main character is party leader of a party that was never "meant" as a leading party in Danish politics; it is the sort of party that normally would just support another party to let them keep the power. Which also would have to do with her having practically no staff (actually this happened in the last election here in Denmark; a party got more seats in parliament then they had *actual* politicians in their party, so half the seats were filled by *newbies*) - seeing the PM by herself, I don't think is uncommon in Danish politics either.. and as her party is "only" a supporting party normally, would also be why the media doesn't really care about her, because she doesn't have an important role as such, when it comes to running the country... =)

[–] Sammahel 10 years ago

I think people demand from fiction a narrative realism that reality doesn't really need to have, as the politics just proved.

[–] marliza 13 years ago

No you cannot really compare these two series (except like in England the weather is always *beep* there is a danish and swedish serie "broen-Bron" which is more similar and i think it's coming to british tv.

[–] youngian67 13 years ago

I enjoyed the first two episodes and liked the way Birgitte toughened up very quickly. It does lean towards the worthiness of West Wing than the Machivellian House of Cards for example but I'm expecting a lot more back stabbing nastiness to come.

[–] blueswan75 13 years ago

Changing the outcome of an election completely through a pretty standard political debate performance a couple of days before an election = definitely not very realistic, especially not in Denmark few major changes occur from election to election.

Seeing the prime minister on her own = very realistic. The danish political system is far more informal than in most other countries.

Birgitte Nyborg appearing very naive = somewhat realistic seeing as she's the leader of a small and quite idealistic party.

Birgitte Nyborg actually becoming the PM = somewhat realistic. Something similar has happened before in danish politics. The way it's depicted on screen is not very realistic at all.

In general the series gets increasingly more realistic as it goes on. It also gets increasingly better, only really peaking in the second season.

[–] marliza 13 years ago

Im danish so i can relate a lot more to the poltical system in the story, and it's very realistic to me of course i agree with you that there is a lot of one liners(whatever it's called) but that is how some of the danish election debates can be. So the ones who written it has a lot of knowledge (actually in danish tv/newspapers reviews they have noticed how much it resembles to danish politics)

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] youngian67 13 years ago

Don't forget her authourity came form doing unexpectedly well while the two main parties lost seats and authourity. The episode wasn't saying it was only the debate that propelled her (although a similar thing happened in the UK with centre leader Nick Clegg) but was being a device for setting the scene. This not an improbable scenario if unlikely.

[–] oakcourt 13 years ago

Replying in sequence here. I am liking all the European dramas coming to our TV. Not watched The Killing though. I really want Engrenages back too. Also loved the All the President's Men poster in Katrine's flat. Very topical.

[–] alfa-16 13 years ago

Dammit! I'm hooked. Again . . . .

How do those pesky Danes keep doing ?

[–] Squeeth2 13 years ago

The babe's lapping it up. I'm convalescing watching State of Play. Polly Walker's good....

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

[–] glendinning-1 13 years ago

It's a gem and we're hooked like most followers of Danish dramas. However, one wheel came loose in the penultimate episode of season two. A Prime Minister rushes her child to hospital and once there HAS TO WAIT IN THE CORRIDOR like a 'commoner'? Really?! Couldn't ever imagine Maggie Thatcher putting up with that. Even the private hospital - well aware of the 'appointment' kept the PM waiting. Y'think?

PLEASE, don't let the writers slip off course - all too easy when the applause is loud. Doubtless we'll be available to get into season three - but, watching for the logic gaps again.

[–] signemarie 12 years ago

She IS a commoner. I don't remember the exact episode, but it would cause quite a stir in the media if the Danish PM made the impression that her child should be treated before anyone else waiting in an emergency room. She would be expected to wait for a doctor to determine the urgency of the problem and wait just like any other mother with a sick child.

[–] ricoliv 10 years ago

Also, wasn't that one of the salient points of the episode? It dealt with the discrepancy between the treatment of patients on the national health scheme vs. those who chose to use the private hospital system. As I recall, Birgitte was embroiled in discussions about increasing funding for the state health care system in order to make it more closely resemble the private system. In addition, the point was made that she and her husband chose NOT to use Philip's private health insurance but opted to use the state system instead. This unfortunate choice also became significant later in the episode, when Birgitte was forced to "jump the queue" in the state system and "go private" in order to receive immediate treatment for Laura. This caused a media sensation, since it was portrayed as an indicator of Brigitte's hypocrisy. All of these elements were used to exemplify Birgitte's dilemma when she was forced to choose between political idealism and the practical reality of her personal situation-- a recurring theme. Finally, all the other elements in the series point to Birgitte's being treated more as an ordinary citizen than as a stuffy head of state. (For example, virtually everyone with whom she comes into contact feels free to call her "Birgitte.") Thus, her being subject to the vagaries of an ambitious state-run health system should come as no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to Birgitte's story.

[–] HHFan 13 years ago

Thing is, even though all the papers call it a series about politics, it really isn't. That isn't the point, and so it doesn't matter if its "realistic" or not.
Though if that is what you wanted.

--
Lets nuke the site from orbit - its the only way to be sure.

[–] ironjade 13 years ago

It also seems odd that so far we haven't seen how the new PM performs in Parliament, assuming the Danish set up is similar to the UK.

"Make me a baby!
Make me a star!
Leave my coffin slightly ajar!"
- Lesley Gore

[–] originalpliget 13 years ago

I have to say that I really don't care two hoots whether this is seen as naive or not. I would suggest that every drama series there has ever been on politics (or maybe on anything) could have the same criticism levelled at them, House of Cards, Thick of It, Yes Minister, West Wing, all of them.

This is entertainment and, as entertainment, it is first class, up with any of the above. As for not seeing the PM in parliament, this series seems mostly to be about people and their relationships, and just happens to be set in the political arena, much like The Sopranos was set in the "mob" world but was about people. I reckon if we saw them in parliament we would either turn off quickly through sheer boredom or really have cause to say it was unrealistic.

Concerning the specific reasons behind this being seen as naive there are easy explanations: two-minute speech swinging an election - well it seems to be pretty real in the USA and, sadly, becoming so for the UK. The rest is simply explained by the fact including all that background would make it all rather leaden.

[–] martinblaah 13 years ago

You couldn't be more wrong.
The series is very realistic, it had happen a few times before in Denmark, where we have seen a political party get the PM post, even when no one had expected it.

Yes, an election don't swing whit a two minute speech, but it is a TV series, so things need to be told quickly sometimes, to get on whit the story.

As some of the other users have commented, in Denmark the politics are less formal than in many other countries. For example, before the current PM i Denmark got the post, i have seen her a few times in my local shopping mall. She lives in a normal house i Copenhagen, and not like in UK or the US where the PM lives in a official residence.

And the writer of the show, Adam Price, actually predicted what would happen in Danish politics, at on point it was scary, since he wrote the show years before the events happenet in real life.

[–] kgoosseff86 13 years ago

I just finished tonight with the second season. I have seen Adam Price in real life he gave a speech at a Screen Writers event in Utrecht, Holland. I live in The Hague. It was really nice hearing him talking about the show and how much time goes by by just shooting the episodes, writing/re writing and editing the episodes. It is a realistic show indeed the second season had even more highlights then the first.

[–] malcolm-smith 12 years ago

You mentioned informality, this is very mush so in the Scandinavian way.

A famous example in Norway, not in Denmark but it will suffice, was when an American journalist found King Olaf at a bus stop alone with this skis in hand.

She asked him "Why are are you alone and where are your bodyguards?"
The King replied "But I have five million of them."