Should they have gone back to 1939?


From imdb trivia

The original ending had the time-travelers go back to 1939 with Indiana Jones (Harrison Ford) put into the difficult position of trying to save Adolf Hitler from Jurgen Voller (Mads Mikelsen) killing him

From wiki
Mangold considered Nazi Germany for the film's time-traveling final act, with Jones attempting to stop Voller's plan. However, as this idea was developed further, Mangold considered it too predictable. He also found that it lacked emotional resonance for Jones and played out like a spy film, prompting him to choose the siege of Syracuse instead.

Full interview with Mangold:
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/indiana-jones-5-ending-explained


I guess it'd have been too close to the opening WW2 stuff and the ending up in BC ending was pretty insane/shocking/eerie and tied in with the previous endings of the overconfident villains being undone by the sheer power of the mcguffin (and going that far back has not really been done in a movie before*), but it would've been fun seeing Indy attempting to save his old book signing chum Adolf Hitler from assassination!

*There was a famous Twilight Zone episode where a passenger plane flew through a time fissure into the past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Odyssey_of_Flight_33


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That whole nazi thing was way too outdated and no one cares about it now. Too many nazi movies about WW2, people are tired of them, saw it all already.

When I saw nazi stuff in the opening I thought: "Oh dear, here we go again".

And then they brought it back again with Mads character. And when those dudes and random extras put on nazi uniform, jumped back in plane and went to a mission to save nazi Germany of something I just burst in laughing. They all looked so stupid.

I’m glad they changed it and went to ancient Rome instead. I wish we would spend more time there. But she just hits Indy and we are back at present. Didnt even show how they took off. I was cheated. I wanted to see that. And I actually wanted Indy to stay there. Whats left to him in real world? Could have leaved his few years there in ancient Rome times.

On the other hand Fleabag was right. He was injured and would probably just die next morning.

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Indie was also shot in the chest, not sure if he would have survived more than a few days with archaic medical treatment, his only future was likely in modern times

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if indy went back to 1939 he could have dialed up ilsa and reboned her. she does like older men.

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No she died in 1938. But he could've gone and tried to reclaim the Grail from its perch. and maybe dropped in on his Dad and Marcus (maybe warned both about their impending deaths, although probably nothing either could do) plus left Marion a note saying don't let Mutt go to 'Nam

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(SPOILER) Well, what I thought worked about the ending was the surprise. At first, you think, yeah they went back to 1939. There is a battle going on down on the water. Then, they get closer and there are shots being lobbed between boats, and you think, "What?" Then, they get closer still and you see that there are sails on the ships. I was genuinely taken by surprise and think that it worked. It also underlined Voller's failure at just thinking it would be a no-brainer to go back to the time he wanted to.

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it was a great 'out there' ending and totally in keeping with the previous movies. had they actually gone back to 1939 it wouldve no doubt just decended into BTTF2/Endgame type timetravel shenanigans with old Indy secretly assisting young Indy or something

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It was awesome of the plane to fly low enough so the catapults could hit them.

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Yeah, NOT the greatest piloting, I would have to say.

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Agreed and experienced the exact same feeling

First shock that they even succeeded, then more shock when the ships come into view

Then a feeling of "of COURSE" when we realize how well it fits into the Indiana Jones with (A) hubris of the villain leading to unexpected failure and (B) Indiana Jones's dedication to archaeology, NOT history per se. Syracuse makes SUCH better sense in that regard especially.

Additionally, it makes even more sense that Archimedes would bring time travelers to himself. He's like Tesla inasmuch as the lore surrounding his abilities outstrips any notion of actual history.

I honestly thought Indy could credibly have remained behind. He's already near death. He'd make absolutely sure to stay out of history's way. What better ending to the beloved character than to have him actually BECOME HISTORY

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The only date that is interesting when going back in time is 1955.
Everybody knows that.

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No, Indy and WW2 is played out. I liked the twist.

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https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=845910007538586&set=a.499490508847206

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Director James Mangold revealed that the original plan for the sequel’s conclusion was to incorporate supernatural elements like ghosts, though he ultimately changed course to venture into a time-traveling climax.

“When I came on the movie, they had been playing with a bunch of different things which were basically just reduxes of what had happened in the first movie. Just more apparitions and ghosts and I felt like I was just watching the first movie over again when I envisioned what was in the existing scripts,” Mangold expressed to Gizmodo. “And I felt like what Steven and George [Lucas] and Larry Kasdan and David Koepp as well had done successfully in the other films, was to keep kind of pulling up a rock on a different aspect of history and metaphysics and not going back to the same thing. In a way I didn’t want to do the kind of, ‘Is it a Death Star again?’”

He continued, “As we got there, it started occurring to me that A) that’s what the audience is going to be anticipating, and therefore not very surprising to them, and we’d be plunged just back into the opening of the film only with a 79-year-old Indy running around. I felt we needed something more shocking, something bolder, and something that also affected Indy. If he had gone back to Nazi Germany, he would simply be a hero trying to stop [Mads Mikkelsen’s] Voller from doing his plan. If he ended up where he does end up in the film, he was going to be facing bigger questions about his own life and what he studied all his life. And I thought that was going to be more interesting. And, also, usually bolder is better if you can do it.”

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The ending they went with is one of the only good things about this.

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I thought at first the ending was silly but having time to think about it, I didn't mind the setting. It's not so silly that it doesn't fit in with the Indy series, because the franchise has already laid the foundations for it to be a bit out there in terms of the supernatural and logic defying historical themed surrealness. Some things bugged me though:

The plane that Indy was on appeared to take collateral damager numerous times from the battle. The plane following seemed to fly around problem free and land safely.

The death of Voller and his cohorts was very anti-climatic. Old Indiana Jones used to make an event of the deaths of these bad guys. Now they just die by getting shot and a plane they are on crashing.

The ending of it with Indy being knocked out by the woman and dragged onto the plane. No such thing as damsels in distress anymore. It's old legendary male heroes that are in danger that need saving by young women, who have the strength to incapacitate them with one blow, when no other man before was capable.

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Your points, if I can address

The 2nd plane was way smaller, and the Romans were transfixed by the big heavy duty 'dragon' that appeared first and started firing at them

The death of Voller was indeed lacking. he simply died in the crash .. no doubt the writers/directors tried to figure out a traditional 'indiana jones' death but what could they do? there was no supernatural force that could destroy him just the rift .. I guess he could've survived the crash been hauled out by the soldiers and graphically killed with swords? but wouldn't have been much different (and may have pushed it into an R rating)

PWB saving the despondent Indiana Jones wasn't too out there as he was weakened by the gunshot, depressed over his son, and feeling out of time back home , but there was definitely a 'panderstone' element to her saving him (in fact the whole relationship between him and her had elements of Rey/Luke in Last Jedi). Maybe they should've reworked the whole thing and had Indy get them home (instead of basically wanting to commit suicide), also reworked the goddaughter too so not so 'Fleabag' ordering Indiana Jones around lol (Haylee Atwell or Felicity Jones would've been good choices)

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Maybe they could have had Indy fight Voller for a bit before he died? Would have added more depth to Voller as a villain I suppose. He didn't even particularly feel much like a true villain compared to others. Given the ages of the pair of them, Voller's lack of hand to hand combat but Indy being shot, it would seem a fairer fight as well. I know Indy is old however he was well and truly a push over by the end and just gave up on the situation. At least respect him as a character who is tenacious and never gives up.

The second plane was never in danger at all. Summed up large parts of the film and the action scenes in that you never felt the good characters were really in any danger throughout. One of many issues with the film.

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Yeah the best part is how Indy wanted to stay and completely disrupt history ... which completely goes against his character as an archeologist and professor...

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Yes they softened Indy up and made him a quitter, and a stupid one. They did a disservice to the character we know and love from the original trilogy.

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I had a problem with that at first, but then realized Indy's at the end of his life

So I could accept him believing he doesn't have much time left to mess things up AND his knowledge of history would help him to stay out of history's way

He's had opportunities before to follow his instincts which is why he refused to blow up the ark with the Panzerfaust. And he's resisted temptation as well by returning the last Sankara stone, letting go of the Grail and fleeing the aliens' "treasure" (that one must've hurt like hell, but he seemed used to it by that point).

In other words, a key part of Indy's character is not merely scholarship but how it conflicts with his morals and his actual survival.

Here, he has one, last chance to live out a lifelong ambition, to be a part of history in his final few years when he has nothing else to live for anyway.

So ... TLDR: in the theater, I also thought for a moment that it went against his character, then realized (since I'm nearing that age myself) that it actually made perfect sense.

Heck, I thought for a moment they might actually leave him there after all. Indy's life ends before he's even born. He becomes history. I dunno, could've worked.

And I didn't get, at all, why Helena Shaw was so frantic to get him home.

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