this scene was so haunting and disturbing. first the parents & dog drown then the poor little baby girl is just there on the beach (when it's still daytime). we eventually see (it's nighttime now) the baby still there crying and terrified all alone. we hear a bit later on the radio in Scarlett's character's car that the entire family (including baby) are missing. such a disturbing scene.
shareEspecially when it tried to get up. But at the same time it showed the frailty of the human race. Animals have instincts and know what to do, as babies all we can do is cry and whine. And even as we get older, all we can do is cry and whine on the imdb board. Just kidding!
But seriously, it was a powerful scene. Going from such a beautiful landscape and everyday scene suddenly to a dramatic event with first the women after the dog in the water and then the man. And it was so stupid! What a great idiocy to run fully clothed into the water after a dog. And then again running into the water after just being rescued! Kind of like evolution at work, or shows how disconnected humans are with the dangers of nature.
Dejay,
"And even as we get older, all we can do is cry and whine on the imdb board. Just kidding!"
RIGHT?! lol.
but yeah, i agree w/ you that what the little baby's parents did was extremely stupid. i would die for my animal but NOT if i had a child who is 100% reliant on me! just the fact the baby was there all alone and so vulnerable just horrifies me.
There are people out there who would jump into flames for their pets. People don't think sometimes when faced with life or death situations. They just act on instinct. It didn't surprise me that she did. It didn't surprise me that her husband jumped in to get his wife. The child although completely alone was not at walking age obviously and would be fine alone for the time It took for the husband to save his wife. Love and attachment makes us do silly things.
shareI'm just watching this movie now and I just saw this part and i am appalled. to show what they showed with the baby scene was disgusting and totally uncalled for. I hate this film and i will never watch it again as long as I live and the writer/director should get a good punch in the face. Sick cretin.
shareGrow up
shareIt's a friggin MOVIE. Get a damn grip.
shareGet over it. I just watched the film and this scene disturbed the hell out of me but why can't a film show something that could absolutely occur? Disturbing stuff happens every day. Was I hoping we'd later hear on the radio that the baby had been found by someone and brought to police custody? Absolutely. It would have eased my mind. But I suppose it's realistic that we didn't. It would have sugar-coated it and made it all better, stripping the scene of its power. The film will haunt me and not just for this scene. Overall I thought this film was a masterpiece. I'm sorry if you're going to let one confrontational scene ruin an entire movie for you.
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VERONICA MARS MOVIE - https://www.facebook.com/TheVeronicaMarsMovie?fref=ts
Shut up, idiot. No one cares. Why do people like you feel that you have a right to not be offended by something? Like you're entitled to have a perfect day or something.You know, how dare they? How dare they make you go, "ugh, that's hard. That's ugly." Jesus Christ. Is it to make yourself feel good, or morally superior over people who understand what a movie is? God I'm so sick of *beep* whiney pansies like you.
share"I'm just watching this movie now and I just saw this part and i am appalled. to show what they showed with the baby scene was disgusting and totally uncalled for. I hate this film and i will never watch it again as long as I live and the writer/director should get a good punch in the face. Sick cretin"
It's only a film. It didn't actually happen.
Was it a millionaire who said "Imagine no possessions"?
Plot twist: you are the baby.
"WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!"
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"Welcome to the middle of nowhere- î‚ -the center of everywhere."
@Dejay
And even as we get older, all we can do is cry and whine on the imdb board. Just kidding!
We are animals too, you know...
shareAnd it was so stupid! What a great idiocy to run fully clothed into the water after a dog. And then again running into the water after just being rescued! Kind of like evolution at work, or shows how disconnected humans are with the dangers of nature.
Yeah of course, natural selection!
I'm not sure. Do you have scientific knowledge about this? Or a source? Really curious about this. It's hard to differentiate from other factors, but I would think genes do play a big role in intelligence. And yeah there are lots of different kinds of intelligence.
The other big part is interest and energy. If you are interested in something and have the energy to learn, you become good in a field.
Thinking back on the scene, I do think it shows the "stupidity" of some of our human traits. To put it a bit over the top: The scene wasn't about empathy, but about weakness. Both parents were abominable, disgusting creatures. They let their own baby die because they acted like animals instead of rational human beings. Your intentions can be as nice as you want, as long as you are too stupid or too weak or ruled by emotions, your actions are likely to have an evil outcome.
That is what the alien lady would most likely see with her uncaring eyes. It's been a while since I watched the movie but when I rewatch it I'll have to look out for that perspective.
The NIH library page for intelligence studies has a mostly accurate summary (beware anything labeled 'twin studies'), and a short list of sources: https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence
Two good introductions are available in full text here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
And here: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(13)00844-0
Regarding the parents in the film, I would say it is ultimately incidental that they each failed to judge the strength of the current and the risks and consequences of their death, or that they put the life of their dog before their own, or their child's. That is, whether it was out of empathy or out of weakness shouldn't matter. The point of the scene was the alien's attempt at understanding their motivations, which were completely irrational, but also completely human.
Thank you! I'll check this out later.
The point of the scene was the alien's attempt at understanding their motivations, which were completely irrational, but also completely human.
Are you people for real? Did you understand the movie at all? Every day, people kill bugs without a second thought. Do you care if you kill an adult spider or a baby spider? Humans were (initially) like bugs to these aliens. That was the point the filmmakers were trying to make. 2. It's fiction. Can you understand that no babies were actually harmed during the making of this FILM? 3. Grow up. Jesus.
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you do know that no children where actually hurt, right? The child's parents where likely right on set and it will probably have no recollection of the scene even taking place?
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not really. It isn't a requirement that the main character be good, they just have to be interesting.
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that simply isn't true. You don't have to like these kinds of movies, but there is nothing structurally or morally wrong with them.
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Name me one mainstream, commercial film, like this one, which violates this rule of sympathy for the character(s). Without a sympathetic connection between the audience and the character(s) there is no commercial film.
I doubt very much you're familiar with the films of Bresson, Parajzhanov, Pasolini, or Bruno Dumont, i.e., abstract, noncommercial art films, which sometimes violate or ignore this rule on purpose. This is NOT one of those films. It is clearly intended for mainstream, commercial distribution.
Tormenting or killing off a baby is a no-no, even off screen.
bluesdoctor I'm liking you more and more!
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not really. It isn't a requirement that the main character be good, they just have to be interesting.
This movie is not at all about rooting for the lead character. The lead character is fascinating precisely because we're not rooting, we're waiting to see what she does next. In a way, she is studying humanity, and in turn we are simply studying her. It's not as simple as caring or not caring about the protagonist in this film.
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I know I was. I was fascinated. Wondering what she would do next.
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VERONICA MARS MOVIE - https://www.facebook.com/TheVeronicaMarsMovie?fref=ts
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The critic reviews are higher, not that critics are law, but their opinions come from a better understanding, and generally less emotional and unreliable.
When it comes to the test of time the critic reviews matter more.
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Well, we'll all pick and choose which reviews suit us best I suppose. Rotten tomatoes and IMDB are probably the most mainstream, I think Rotten Tomatoes is a little more reliable out of the two, but that's because users tend to rate movies low for ridiculous reasons. I guarantee just by reading threads here that a lot of people rated the movie low because of disturbing *beep* like that baby on the beach, or the dark ending, or simply because they didn't understand it.(Not *beep* on them btw, it has a lot of open ended scenes.)
Point is the reviews are generally positive, with mixed being the lowest, not really a good reference for the quality of the film, it can go either way depending on the person at that point.
Honestly, a 6.6 on IMDB for a film as divisive as this is pretty good on IMDB. Obviously mainstream viewers will despise this film. Those more open-minded with a better appreciation for film are the ones who will love this. It's only made for a small group of moviegoers, IMO. Most won't get it. Regardless it will be talked about and debated for years to come. I'm sure it will be shown in film classes too.
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VERONICA MARS MOVIE - https://www.facebook.com/TheVeronicaMarsMovie?fref=ts
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i freely admit that i didn't get everything in this movie but (oddly enough) i still ended up loving it. i agree 100% numerous times it just seems aimless (sort of) and meandering but the movie haunted me for about 2 weeks after i had seen it. it takes a LOT for me to be moved/shaken by a film. i think the last movie to do that (in a good way! LOL) was maybe MARTYRS? the last movie to movie me in an unfavorable way was A SERBIAN FILM (even though i think it's a well made film and i freaking LOVED the devastating ending).
but yeah, no big deal. we all like different things. bluesdoctor, 4 of my friends (all come from different walks of life, different ages, jobs, nationality etc) either didn't like the movie or found it so (these are not my words...i'm quoting them. lol) "mind-numbingly boring" that they turned it off.
different strokes.
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Exactly! Snobs are everywhere
shareNo. The rating is what it is because the film is polarizing, which clearly can be seen from the comments and your discussions.
shareTo resort to the consensus betrays a lack of confidence in your own opinion. What does a consensus vote matter to your own personal view of the film? Do your own views never differ from the consensus?
Besides which, a score of 6.6 / 10 would indicate that more people liked the film than did not.
Me too. I was glued to the screen throughout. Couldn't look away.
shareYou're failing to understand the purpose of the film as a discourse. The film does not exist to entertain you, no matter the fact 90% of Hollywood production aims to do exactly that. The film also exists to speak of the truth - the one it provides and the one you yourself discover. If in this particular film this particular scene hit you, then the film fulfilled its outmost purpose.
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SPOILER
Actually the baby isn't touched. It's the fact that the aliens ignore the baby because, to them, it's as invisible as the pebbles on the beach that makes the scene disturbing to us.
Exactly bluesdoctor! On both points.
shareYou can probably tell who has kids and who doesn't on this thread. And who shouldn't. And who shouldn't be giving advice because they're idiots.
shareThat was the point the filmmakers were trying to make.
yes....i felt the same way..in fact it was the only part of the movie that i actually FELT something. otherwise, it was an utter borefest.
shareIt is a disturbing scene, undoubtedly, but it's there to emphasise the difference between the alien and humans. The responses of the adult humans were purely driven by emotions - you can argue that the woman was stupid to try and rescue her dog, and that the husband was equally stupid to go in after his wife, but how would you have felt if they hadn't? Most pet owners would risk their lives to save their pet, not to mention the husband trying to save his wife, but what was the alien doing? Simply observing the scene waiting to see if her prey would return to the shore so she could whack him on the head and drag him away. The human drama being acted out in front of her was of absolutely no interest to her whatsoever. Likewise, neither she nor her handler(?) was at all interested in the baby.
However, IIRC, while listening to the radio in the van, she seems to hear a distorted version of the baby crying (as if she's playing it back in some way) and the thought occurred to me that maybe this was the first sign of her beginning to acquire emotions.
Definitely the start of her discovering emotions, she is completely impassive up to this point. However what happens is she thinks she hears the baby and starts (as if recalling the baby on the beach?), she looks about and sees that the noise is coming from a crying child in a car seat in the car next to her (hence the muffled/distorted sound).
shareThe aliens are ruthless and uncaring (they are like Pod people from Invasion of the Body Snatchers), so she doesn't (initially) care about the baby. She develops a limited form of humanity (however she can't eat human food)and emotions (she goes back to try to find the baby).
Along her journey to her "humanity" she encounters victims, good people, indifferent people, and human monsters.
The other aliens - the motorbike riders - are still alien.
At the end I think she realizes she can't become human.
I have to say that I have two dogs that I love dearly. But I would NEVER EVER leave my baby on the beach, even with her father, to go try to save one of my dogs that had gone into a very turbulent sea. It was obvious that there was a very strong undertow, and her chances of getting that dog back were slim.
Then the HUSBAND leaves the baby and goes after the wife, who is caught in the undertow??? It I were the wife, and survived that rescue attempt, and knew that my husband had left our child unattended on the beach, I would beat him with the same rock SJ used on the other guy. JMHO
My husband and I both thought that that scene was hard to watch. I can't imagine being a parent and leaving my baby sitting on a rocky beach, crying her/his little heart out, just to be in a movie. Even if I were just a few feet away, out of camera sight. Imagine just standing there watching your child cry and not doing anything about it. Immediately. Not for me.
Since I've learned (from this board) that the alien was harvesting meat from these men, I have to wonder if the baby was a boy, if it would have taken the baby as well. Humans eat babies all the time...veal, lamb, even the chicken that you buy at the grocery store is from "teenage" chickens. I would think that a human baby would be a treat for human-eating aliens.
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When I was a kid...no, wait. I still do that.
Since I've learned (from this board) that the alien was harvesting meat from these men, I have to wonder if the baby was a boy, if it would have taken the baby as well. Humans eat babies all the time...veal, lamb, even the chicken that you buy at the grocery store is from "teenage" chickens. I would think that a human baby would be a treat for human-eating aliens.
Exactly! Almost turned it off after that.
shareIt's an uncomfortable scene to watch and reminds us of how futile it is when humans act on emotion and instinct in a very risky situation. That husband should have stayed on the shore when the man rescued him because he had a *beep* baby on the beach with no one else to look after him and was going to be easily drowned by those waves because the wife was already pulled beneath the waves by the time he was pulled onto shore. He should have thought about the baby but still wanted to save the wife no matter how impossible it was and that did no good at all, just made an orphan out of the kid. It shows just how frail and broken we really are, in comparison to the alien who has no emotion or flaws to worry about because she's just there to do what she's been sent for and doesn't have to care about anybody or risk herself for anybody. In that way, it makes an alien or robot appear as a better survivor when they don't have to get mixed in the same emotions and fatal flaws that drive humans down destructive paths, but that proves harder for the alien to handle as she becomes lost in her mission and tries to be human to the point where she can't be anything.
shareThis has been talked to death but I have insomnia...
I found it disturbing, but the message seemed to be that the aliens had no empathy toward humans, not even a baby. We are cattle to them, which I think gives the female's "journey of self-discovery" more weight.
Did the movie go too far? I don't think so. We needed to understand how little regard the aliens had for humans and I can't imagine a better way to demonstrate it. I didn't enjoy the scene at all, but that was probably the point.
I was more troubled by the shear horror on the face of the child used in the crypt scene in Dracula (1992). According to the movie's trivia notes the girl really was terrified of actress Sadie frost in her make-up. In contrast to the baby, who will never recall getting upset that his mom made him sit and cry for 30 seconds, this girl was old enough to have a lot of nightmares from filming the scene.
I'm not one to complain about the various abuse and exploitation so often generating controversy on these boards, but for even one minute, that baby was literally terrified for its life in the dark, and to say it was necessary to justify alien apathy by getting such a deeply registered sense of pure abandonment from such a young child is a testament to much of the film's shallow nature and emotional detachment.
shareThe baby was angry, not terrified. This was a child who wanted to be fed, picked up, changed, etc, and was being ignored by cast, crew, and parents. For about 60 seconds.
shareThe baby was angry, not terrified. This was a child who wanted to be fed, picked up, changed, etc, and was being ignored by cast, crew, and parents. For about 60 seconds.The range of that baby was amazing!
We are animals too, you know...Actually, were not.. but we do have DNA that evolved from the natural life form on this planet.. but also we do have quite a lot of alien dna.. which is why we don't look like bigfoot.. the naturally evolved species of earth. share
LMAO
shareWe don't even see anything happen to the baby. All we see is its vulnerability, and yet we are all upset about it. That is extremely effective film-making -- and totally fair game for this kind of film, IMO. If you find it upsetting to see a helpless abandoned baby, then that simply shows that you are a good, caring person.
We could imagine that some nice person found the baby and took it home and then turned it in to the authorities. The radio report didn't have that info yet.
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Every single person on the face of the Earth is unique.
... except for you.